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What color kittens

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I have reserved a kitten from a breeder, what color do you think the kittens will be? Female is solid white with blue eyes and male is white with a small spot of black between his ears, He also has blue eyes. Do you need to know what the color of the parents or litter mates were?
post #2 of 19
Curious what type of cat - I can't see the picture.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Norwegian Forest Cats or Skogkatt. I believe the white are called Snowkatt.
post #4 of 19
Since white cats mask the color - you need to know what the color of the parents and grandparents are. If some of them are white, you need to go back till you get to a color cat.

Give us a color history of what is on each side and we will tell you what to expect.
post #5 of 19
Dame:
Father was brown classic w/ white tabby and mom was white w/ blue eyes

Sire:
Father was black/ white and mother was white w/ blue eyes
post #6 of 19
HMMMM something is wrong. You cannot get blue-eyed cats with one parent blue eyed and the other colored (as both color parents would be gold-eyed cats) - that would make the white kittens odd-eye (one color from each parent).

The only explanation is the whites are colorpoints under there (both sides of each have to have a pointed as recessive).
post #7 of 19
I'm not sure further back but I can ask. I know several siblings were odd-eyed on both sides.
post #8 of 19
I'd have to really see the pedigree with the colors - something is wrong regarding the cats colors or its the wrong cat listed on the pedigree.

Doesn't matter going back further on the colors - you have a problem at the beginning. You cannot have a blue-eye white with a colored parent unless its pointed.
post #9 of 19
I am telling you the color according to what they appear to be, they may actually be something different. I will ask to scan the papers. The mother came from a litter of: herself (white w/ blue eyes), brother was white and very light yellow, sister who was white w/ odd eyes and sister who was a tortie. I only know that because it was a friend of the family who has her.
post #10 of 19
If you would pm me the cattery name, I will ask a dear friend who breeds only high white bi color NFO's. I rarely hear of blue eyed Skogkatts but it's not my breed. If anyone would know about BEW (Blue eye whites) in the breed, my friend would know

I have also honestly heard of a pointed NFO!
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
I sent it to you! Because they are friends I get to pick my kitten first It will be for a pet only, no breeding or showing.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I'd have to really see the pedigree with the colors - something is wrong regarding the cats colors or its the wrong cat listed on the pedigree.

Doesn't matter going back further on the colors - you have a problem at the beginning. You cannot have a blue-eye white with a colored parent unless its pointed.

It is definitely possible to get a blue eyed white from a white and a non-white. White to white breedings are forbidden in most countries/ cat associations because it greatly increases the chance of deafness and there are still enough blue eyed whites around .
The fact that some cats get amber eyes, some green, blue or odd eyes is due to the variable expression of the W gene (dominant white). When a embryo develops in the uterus pigment cells spread from the top of the embryo. This is a unique development for each embryo, with some cats pigment reaches their eyes (amber eyes), with some is doesn't (blue eyes), with some the cells do not even reach their ears (deaf cats, most often they don't have pigment in their eyes either, this explains the higher incidence of deafness in blue eyed whites). With some cats the spread is assymetrical and they might end up with odd eyes.


This article is very informative and may help you understand the white phenomenon better.
http://home.earthlink.net/~featherland/off/white.html
post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 
Now I'm not sure I have the parents correct, I need to double check. I am easily confused about who is who.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Since white cats mask the color - you need to know what the color of the parents and grandparents are. If some of them are white, you need to go back till you get to a color cat.

Give us a color history of what is on each side and we will tell you what to expect.
Odd eyed cats occur randomly, due to both the S and W genes. There is no way to predict the number of odd eyed cats from any given combination of parents.
And while it was caused by the S gene, I have two blue eyed red TUVs from two different pairs of golden eyed parents. They definitely do not have any colorpoint in their background, as that color is not in our breeding population nor the native Turkish population.


AMYSCRAZY- One thing you need to consider, however, is if the white parent is WW or Ww. In one case (WW) all kittens will be white, regardless of their ground color. White masks all colors. In the other (Ww) you will have half white kittens and half non-white. This is where you really need to get a good look at the parents' pedigrees and see what colors the sire's parents and grandparents were.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
I know my odds are great but I really want a blue eyed white cat. I was hoping since both parents have blue eyes that would be what they produced.
post #16 of 19
So are you saying that the blue eyes are recessive too?

If she does breed the 2 blue eyed cats together, she should get blue eyed whites and possible colors.

Why can't cats be normal ?????
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
So are you saying that the blue eyes are recessive too?

If she does breed the 2 blue eyed cats together, she should get blue eyed whites and possible colors.

Why can't cats be normal ?????
No, not recessive. Please stop thinking about a blue eyes gene for white cats

The blue eyes in Dominant white (W-) or spotted white (S-) cats are a side effect of those genes for coat color. Problem is this side effect does not always appear and is not wholly predictable. It is all in the article I linked to.
post #18 of 19
It's not possible to tell what colors you can get from that combination. Not other than they can get white kittens. You need to get a clue about what color the white cats are under the white, either by looking at the pedigree but often that's not enough. Usually you have to look at the offspring and determine the white parents genotype. However, breeding two white cats won't really help you in that. You need to know at least one of the parents genotype for this.

I can take my own white queen as an example. Her first litter was sired by a solid blue stud. I got two white kittens, one tortie and one brown spotted tabby male.

Tabby is a dominant trait so since the father was solid the tabby had to come from the mother. The red in the tortie had to come from the mother since the father was blue. And since I got one brown spotted tabby male the mother also had to carry black. Sons get their basic color from their mother (the X-chromosome). So with this information I now know that my white queen is at the very least a torbie/patched tabby under the white.

Had I bred her to a white stud (which I wouldn't do due to the higher risk for producing deaf kittens) without known genotype I wouldn't have been able to tell much at all about the queens genotype.
post #19 of 19
I agree with Mimosa et al about the eyes, blue eyes are simply a side effect of other genes (white spotting, colourpoint, dominant white), not a genetic entity in their own right.*

Oriental cats, including Siamese, dominant white, and bicolour, are all, generally speaking, genetically green eyed cats. However the white coat colour (or albinism in the case of colourpoint) prevents pigment from forming in the eye and the colour of the iris without dense pigment is blue. You can (depending on the registry LOL) mate a dominant white (blue eyed) OSH to a black (green eyed) OSH and assuming that the dominant white carries non-white and doesn't carry any colour or markings 'surprises', you will end up with blue eyed white kittens and green eyed black kittens. Similarly (and more commonly done), matings of Siamese x OSH can only ever result in green eyed OSH and blue eyed Siamese, there is no deviation from this at all. Bicolour OSH will have either green eyes, blue eyes, or odd-eyed green/blue, depending upon the distribution of white spotting.

If gold/amber/any other colour eyes were the result of blue eyes x green eyes, then you would get OSH from White x OSH or Siamese x OSH matings with different coloured eyes - but you don't, because it isn't caused by breeding one to the other and OSH have green eyes - so the only possible combinations are green, blue (colourpoint, dominant white, bicolour), or odd-eyed green and blue (bicolour).

*Edit - except of course in the case of the Ojos Azules, but that is a rare dominant gene that isn't found in the general cat population.
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