Gay rights advocates aiming for state coffers - Page 3

Surely you jest! Churches telling lies! Well, I'm flummoxed!

I can assure you Cindy that I am totally heterosexual but I'd fight tooth and nail for gays to have the same rights as I do as a married person.

The whole thing makes me wonder why these devout religious people are so worried about a gay person enjoying a life with a loved one of their choosing regardless of the sex of that loved one. How does their love and devotion to each other cause any harm to those religious people.

I've often believed that the people that protest the loudest are usually the ones that fear they may have the same tendencies and use their bluster to cover their insecurities. As an example, my husband has no issues with his sexuality and in his younger days on the music circuit was approached by gay men. He simply said he wasn't interested and not at any time did he feel anger or the need to beat them up for approaching him. They lived their lives, he had his.

Just this past week in a town near Toronto two lesbian women were picking up their child from school and some idiot man accosted them and punched both women in the face. He was charged with assault but the women want the charges to be stiffer (can't remember off the top of my head right now what they were after). I hope these women get the full cooperation of the law and have that idiot of a man sentenced to the full extent the law will allow. Nobody has the right to judge, then to use that judgement to physically assault another human.

These people need to get rid of their fear of homosexuals and get on with their own lives.

I agree with you here, homophobia needs to go away the same as bigotry.
I guess humans are just nervous of things outside their comfort zone.

But Christians need to ask themselves WWJD and go from there. I think the problem would be taken care of then.

I don't think he was planing on running again anyway. At least that is what he has been saying to Utah news stations. Regardless I don't think it would effect him that much. The church does not speak for all Mormons. I know many that didn't agree with Prop 8 including myself. I mean look at what Obama Revered said and Obama still became President

Again I do not agree with the churches support or attempt to try to sway the members to vote for prop 8 however these statements that you are talking about did not come from the actual church it self. These statements were made by more then just Mormon people. Again I don't thin it was right and I do think that a lot of the money LDS people did donate was because of the churches support but the church it self did not put lies out there.
I AM disappointed in the church leaders greatly but I am also very disappointed that people think that it is ok to fight hate with hate.

How very "Civil Disobedience ".

So Today 2 LDS Temples had packages sent to them with white powder in them. One in Salt Lake city and one in LA California. They don't know why or who but I'm wondering if it has to do with prop 8.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4787495

Um yeah I would have to say No. The Mormon church is not like that. I don't agree but I do see somewhat why they thought it was ok when speaking out about prop 8. It was what they truly believed was right. I still firmly believe that in no way should the church get involved. As much as I disagree it was not the Mormon church that spread lies. If a church member did it was due to ignorance but in no way should it be associated with the church or it's other members. I do think the church should have addressed those lies. Everything negative about this has been blamed on the LDS church and I just don't think that it is the case. Their were more groups then just the LDS church that spoke out against it. I would have voted against it my self if I still lived in California.
People that are for Gay marriage are not perfect. I think blaming the Mormon church for doing something so ridiculous is just a poor attempt to try to make them look worst then they already are. I don't understand why people think that it is ok to discriminate in attempt to stop discrimination. Yes I do think people are discriminating against the church. That doesn't mean I think they were right. I just think it is silly to put more discrimination out there when trying to fight it. On both sides it is sill especially since the Mormon church has been discriminated again in the past. I don't know about it California but there has already been many churches vandalized also some churches had to relocate for services. I doubt even a Member did it although I'm sure that is possible.

According to the article, the Mormon church (or more specifically, their members) account for over half of the money raised to campaign against Proposition 8. To target them for protest is actually a smart tactical move...going after the big donors.

Of course, any sending of "white powder", regardless who sent it, any physical harm, or threat of physical harm, any dissemination of lies, or any vandalism is beyond the pale.

There's a HUGE difference between "aren't married" and "can't be married". LGBT people aren't trying to 'legitimise their lifestyle' - the campaign for gay marriage isn't so that some fat white bureaucrat is forced to accept that gay relationships are just as valid and real and deep as heterosexual relationships. As well as the sentimental and emotional value of having that declared life partner, there are also considerable benefits to being married; financial, insurance, insurance, banking, immigration, travel and renting are all affected by being married, being 'responsible' and 'mature' and 'settled' and all of the other positive qualities that people associate with married adults.

The fact that people can be so dismissive of gay rights IMO is a serious indication that they've never been denied a basic right, that they've never had to think, horrified, "But that's not fair!" I would have thought, as Americans, that the US would be particularly sympathetic to gay rights. The US is proud of it's "equal rights" battles... it's hard for me to understand how a culture so proud of people like Martin Luther King and Rose Parkes who stood up for what was right and denounced discrimination and persecution should be so firmly set against seeing the similarities between these issues.

A friend of mine was beaten to death two years ago because of his sexuality. His boyfriend's brother found a ring Jack had given him as a 'commitment ring' and took a few friends around to the 'pervert's' house to 'teach him a lesson'. My aunt is lesbian, and she and her partner have suffered a lot of abuse and discrimination because of their relationship. They breed cats, and when some people find out that they're gay they change their minds about adopting their pets from that household. :-S One of my uni friends and her girlfriend have children, and their kids are ostracised and beaten up and bullied at school because they have two mummies. I know these wonderful people who are treated so poorly by some people in society just because they love someone of their own gender, and it astounds and shames me that people can be that ignorant and intolerant.

Okay, I'm probably opening a can of worms and will get a bunch of flack but here goes. First I am Mormon (oh no) and I do not agree with the churches stand on same sex marriage. They have the right to not marry them if it is against thier belief but otherwise I think they need to keep their noses out of it! I don't feel I, or anybody else, has the right to tell somone who they can love or spend thier life with. If a couple pays thier taxes and abides by the laws they should have the same rights and privledges as anyone. They are only asking to have the law allow them to marry so they can have what we all take for granted, a family, insurance, choices if one becomes ill and unable to make choices for themselves, and on and on. Before I get too much flack I also want to say that many of my immediate family are very active in the church and they all feel as I do. Not all of the LDS faith are in agrrement here. This should not be a moral or religious issue, it has nothing to do with religion, just rights as a human being.

I know alot of people who are gay, or whatever term you want to use ,and I have never had anyone try to force thier views or lifestyle on me. They are good people and I consider them my friends. They are not asking to be married in a church or have a church accept them, they just want to get married and live a happy life, like the rest of us.

I have a grandaugther that has brought this subject front and center for us. After watching her live in misery and get abused by her husband for years she got a divorce. She is now living with a partner and she is once again the happy, lovng young woman we knew. At first it was a shock and we were concerned as we knew she was facing a rough road but we have accepted her partner and her lifestyle, just to see her happiness again. Her partner is part of our family. Before this I felt the same way but now I know why.

What a beautiful post. You seem like a wise and wonderful person.

I think it is so wrong to judge all based on the actions of some. That's been done to the Muslim peoples since 9/11 and it's so unfair. Our daughter is good friends with a young man who is Jehovah Witness. He's a lovely young man and I'm proud to have him in my home.

You have nothing to be sorry for, I often feel the need to apologize to people for something that has been said by a member of my faith. I just try to remember they are just people and all religions have those that get a little carried away. I think the point of all religion is to teach love and acceptance, for man and beast. That would be my wish for all.

Thank you.
I believe in looking at the person, not thier color, political stance, religion. I think if we could get to that point there would not be hate, prejudice or a 9/11. I work with people with all kinds of disabilities, and see prejudice daily, it is sad.

[quote=clixpix;2471829] According to the article, the Mormon church (or more specifically, their members) account for over half of the money raised to campaign against Proposition 8. QUOTE]

Yes the members. The mormon church donated a little under 3 grand which is not that much. Im not saying it was right but they really did was influence their members. Which I don't really agree with either because they should not get involved. They should influence their members to follow what they think is right not influence them to force others to follow it too.

While the Mormon church was in favor of Prop 8, which is their perogative, they are not the ones responsible for getting it passed. From everything I am reading,
Blacks and Hispanics who turned out in record numbers to vote for Obama, also voted in favor of Prop 8. Why blame Mormons?

It seems it is PC to blame the Mormon Church rather than the people who actually voted in favor of Prop 8, Blacks and Hispanics and white conservatives. If all the people that voted for Obama (didn't he win by a landslide in California?) had voted against Prop 8 it would not have passed.

And I disagree with you. I feel people not in favor of Prop 8 need a scapegoat so they picked the Mormon church and I think that is baloney.

NO ONE twisted any arms, no one went in the voting booth with others. We are all responsible for our own votes.
People can use whatever excuse they want to but the fact remains that the majority of the people of who voted for Obama also voted for Prop 8.

I'm confused. Is there a significant connection between Obama and anti-Prop 8?

Actually, no there is a correlation. 80% of the people in CA who voted for Prop 8 also voted for BHO, in post-election surveys.

Someone needs to go to an AA meeting. You are responsible for your own actions, as an individual. No matter if its someone offering you a drink you shouldn't take, drugs that are illegal, its your responsibility. If someone offers you hope and change without fact to back it up and you vote for them, that's your choice. If someone says "don't vote for gay marriage or you'll burn in hell," then take your chances and vote against Prop 8 and see what happens.

The LDS Church or anyone else putting out a message regarding voting is only a message. Each individual is responsible for their vote, and if they make a decision based on advertising rather than fact, that's on them.

The fact that BHO had millions of what is potentially illegal funds to spend on advertising just adds to the need for voters to do their homework, which unfortunately doesn't happen.

Yes, there is.

1. Obama won by a landslide in California.

2. If the people that voted for Obama had voted against Prop 8, it would have been defeated.


That to me is a connection.

I don't think it's a causal connection, though... You said it yourself in another thread that Obama is against gay marriage. So why's it a big thing that people who voted for Obama also voted against Prop 8?

My question was just because I was curious as to whether Obama had told his supporters to vote against Proposition 8. Apparently not.