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What is next for the Republican party? - Page 2

post #31 of 51
Palin was brought up as a contender for the 2012 nomination from the Republican party. I find this incredible given that there is evidence to support the position that she was in fact a drag on the ticket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
The next step:

Palin/Forbes 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
If you don't have anything constructive to add to the thread except to bash the party and Palin, which you've already had 2 months to do and took full advantage of, then it's not part of a constructive discussion on this topic.
But Palin is evidently off-limits in this thread, even when she is mentioned as part of their future. I get it.

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Some of us have been saying it for two months. Maybe this Op-Ed says it better:

Quote:
Radio titans Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh have achieved incredible wealth by a consistent commitment to defend something they call Conservatism, but which is actually trickle-down economics, xenophobia and saber-rattling. They continue to use fear and threats to sell the need for pre-emptive wars exactly as Eisenhower presaged. Worse yet, they sanction illegal and immoral torture and rendition, a shameful blight on America's moral authority in the world.
Why Obama is Actually More Conservative Than McCain
post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I thought his presidential wish was a joke. The man believes in exorcism. http://www.newoxfordreview.org/artic...id=1294-jindal That's an article he wrote detailing personal battles with a demon, and not figuratively.

Maybe they just think the non-white guy with the funny name will win like he did this time
So what if he believes in exorcism? Many people do. Where is the religious tolerance you liberals so proudly proclaim to believe in?
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
You know, Jana asked in the first post for this not to turn into a Democrat bashing thread. Well, now the opposite is happening - it's turning into a Republican bashing thread.

OK, we get it - you won. We get it - Obama got the youth behind him and actually off their butts and out of the house to vote.

If you don't have anything constructive to add to the thread except to bash the party and Palin, which you've already had 2 months to do and took full advantage of, then it's not part of a constructive discussion on this topic.

There ARE some very constructive comments from Obama supporters in this thread, but not all of them are and it's definitely not heading in that direction. And you're bashing us for not letting the partisan politics go?
I always worry when I see a 'no blah blah exclusion on posts'

No one knows who will be the 2012 candidate, testing the waters doesn't mean anything and a lot can happen in 4 years. It wouldn't have mattered if the VP was Palin or any of the other potentials, there was such an Obama surge in the MSM that there would have been something wrong with every candidate - just as there will be in 2012 and every election past that.

Although I have heard that Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor are much higher on the list of possibilities than Bobby Jindal, to suggest that they are choosing him because of his colour or name suggests that you think Obama got in just because of his, IMHO.

The Republicans need to heal the wounds caused by the Bush administration, the war and the current economic situation by not blaming Clinton or Bush but looking to the future and getting abck to what they and other right of centre parties typically appeal to voters on, their economic policies without all the crap attached because they feel they have to make a statement on it because someone else did. However, newsweek's most recent poll said that 34% of Repoublicans questions rated abortion, guns and family values as most important to them in a list of issues including the war and economy so they can't afford to just drop it.

They need to move on past the loss of the recent election and clear up the factions within the party, like in Canada and the UK in order to show they have a united front that will work for the people.
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Palin was brought up as a contender for the 2012 nomination from the Republican party. I find this incredible given that there is evidence to support the position that she was in fact a drag on the ticket.

But Palin is evidently off-limits in this thread, even when she is mentioned as part of their future. I get it.

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Some of us have been saying it for two months.
No, you can mention Palin, you can say that the Republicans need a fresh face and Palin isn't it - but it isn't supposed to be bashing of either party.

Palin has a loyal fan base within the Republican party too, there will always be people who like and dislike a candidate. She is already a favourite for speaking engagements and fundraisers within the party - hardly seems like they believe she is the cause of the downfall of the Republican party, when the fact is, that it was more of an anyone but Bush (and so republican) election.

It happens in politics all over the world, there is a major problem, which despite taking years and many governments to get to that bottom point, gets blamed on the current administration and people feel they need a change of party to fix it. Look at the UK after the Thatcher/Major years, Canada in the more recent elections where the Liberals were accused of misusung money in the sponsorship scandals etc.
post #35 of 51
I think they need more than a fresh face - I think they need to regroup and return to their core values. I had posted to that effect on the "what do you expect" next thread but no one bit.
post #36 of 51
I believe my post says the same, but I was replying to your post that you couldn't mention Palin
post #37 of 51
Here's the deal. I feel like the current Republican party likes the fact that people like me aren't among it. If it wants to appeal to me it's going to have to work for it. I've laid out some of the trending information in a previous post in this thread.

The question now becomes would you want someone like me voting for a Republican? If so, how is the party going to make that happen?
post #38 of 51
The point I'm trying to make is that this election season radicalized the Republican party, and that if they want to get votes back they need to step back from the brink. I don't care if someone believes in exorcism, but nominating that person is not a step back from radicalism. My incredulity of Jindal's potential nomination is that nominating him would be proof positive that they didn't learn a single thing from the failure of this election cycle.

Aside from that, religious tolerance means respecting someone's right to believe whatever they want, it does not mean agreeing with it. There are not real-life demons that you can have physical altercations with. As we see in stories over and over in the news, belief in exorcism often results in tragedy, where someone believes they are exorcising a child and accidentally kills them or otherwise maims the exorcisee. It's a fifteenth century belief, and a dangerous one. If Bobby Jindal decided we should start burning witches again, and I disagreed, would that make me intolerant too?

Another thing that I hope is next for the Republican party (and the Democrats too) is that this was the final nail in the coffin of Rovian politics. An end to the let's-keep-people-from-voting method of winning. An end to the smear campaigns. Negative ads about someone's policies and campaign, fine. Negative ads about families and childhoods, lies, Elizabeth Dole's 'Godless' ad about a church elder... these things have to stop on both sides.

The single most disappointing thing from this election, aside from ballot issues, was the re-election of Michelle Bachmann. That, and the widespread attitude that Palin attempted and failed to legitimize that only some of America, that would be specifically the rural reliably red parts, are 'real America'.

The biggest difference I saw between Obama's campaign and McCain's campaign was that Obama was campaigning to BE President, McCain was campaigning to win the election.
post #39 of 51
There are just too many responses to quote in this thread so I'm going to try to explain without quotes.

The point has been brought up that young voters (under 30) sided very strongly with Obama. Did you realize that most voters will stick with the party that they first vote for, for the rest of their lives? That alone should give the republican party a long pause on how their policies are perceived. Since I'm clearly no longer under 30, I can't speak for what is disenfranchising them.

The republican party has had a long reputation of being fiscal conservatives, and it appears that this policy was thrown out the window during the Bush administration in favor of social issues. I have witnessed a division within that party for many years now, with moderates either being pushed out in favor of social issue candidates, or quieted with the push to maintain a shared Bush policy front. I honestly felt bad for the fiscal conservatives and the reason why a lot of democrats would have voted for McCain in 2000 where we would not in 2008 was because he moved from the center to the right during that time. That, in and of itself, indicates what the republicans would need to do to attract future voters.

I saw a poll on one of the TV stations yesterday that asked who are the considered leaders of the republican party. They listed Huckabee, Romnee and Palin, all social policy candidates. If that is considered their future leaders, they will not regain the vote. They don't represent the majority of Americans, which are fundamentally moderate. Brings to mind the phrase "silent majority". It is also interesting that the debates within IMO don't include a lot of this silent majority.

I consider myself moderately left and believe in a multi party government. Checks and balances are important to keep extreme ideals out of governmental policy. Like many others, I do fear that the backlash of this election is that things could swing too far left. Either extreme is not good for the country. Many of you will laugh at me for this statement, but compared to the far right social extreme of Bush, Obama looks to be far left. He's actually very much a moderate who was labeled as an extremist to scare away voters. Heck, I was labeled an extremist for the same reasons.

So what should the republican party do to regroup? Get back to the policies by which the party was formed on: fiscal responsibility and moderation. If a third party needs to be formed to address far right social ideals, then do it. But get the GOP back to its roots.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
The point has been brought up that young voters (under 30) sided very strongly with Obama. Did you realize that most voters will stick with the party that they first vote for, for the rest of their lives? That alone should give the republican party a long pause on how their policies are perceived. Since I'm clearly no longer under 30, I can't speak for what is disenfranchising them.
I can.

Several things hurt McCain. To put a disclaimer, I'm reporting on what I know about the general under-30 voting, not my own opinions.

We didn't care that Obama was black, or that Palin was a woman. It made no difference to us, because it never did our whole lives. We're one of the first generations brought up with some semblance of equality. We are also one of the first generations for whom it is inconceivable to think that not knowing how to use a computer or the internet is a minor thing, a joke. Why would we want a President who is so out of touch with reality that he would not only admit to not knowing how to use the computer machines but also not care enough to learn? Obama hired a co-founder of Facebook as one of his advisers, and his online campaign, website, YouTube channel etct etc etc were so superior it made McCain's look like a high school project. Obama was dancing on Ellen, he has two young kids... in a sense, we can identify with him. McCain reminds us of the crotchety old man who doesn't tip and spills his food on the floor. Is it fair? No. Did McCain make any effort whatsoever to change it? No.

One major thing working against the GOP-- We don't remember the Reagan years. We learned about them in history class. There is no such thing as a 'Reagan republican' in their early/mid 20s. The only GOP we know is the Bush and Gingrich one, and it ain't pretty.

Our college educations were astronomically expensive. Nobody cared. We're stuck on our parent's health care, and it expires soon, and we can't afford to buy our own because we're paying back $40,000 in tuition from a state school.

Basically, we can't afford the lives we were told we would get if we worked hard and graduated college, got a good job. Our parents graduated college, got married, bought a house. We graduate college, eat ramen, try to scrape by, and can barely afford children by the time we're 30. And once they're born, we're trying to save up $100,000 so they can go to school while we're still paying off our loans. We watched everyone who had paid as much for their college education as we pay for one semester refuse to pay the taxes for ours, while telling us we shouldn't be so entitled. As what? As you?

We're sick to death of our friends being overseas at wars that are being ignored and funded wrong. Not underfunded-- those billions are going to the companies like Halliburton for some fuzzy paperwork and projects that never appear while our childhood playmates, siblings, fiances, are going without body armor and coming back to find that the VA, too, has been privatized and underfunded by Bush.

Politicians ignore us. The GOP ignores us more. We have questions. We want to know where the hundreds of dollars a paycheck in Social Security are going, and we have no faith we'll ever see it again. We want to know if our friends are coming home. We want to know if we are inheriting an earth on the brink of climate disaster, and why nobody is doing a thing about it. We want to know why our educations were fraught with politics, why our teachers couldn't teach us because we were too busy taking tests.

We finally realized that nobody gives two hoots about us because we don't vote. And now we are voting. We came out in droves, volunteering for Obama, waiting in line to vote.

We're sick of everyone assuming that we're all a bunch of drunk hooligans, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Our lives are not reruns of Animal House.
post #41 of 51
Thank you for that insight!!

A friend of mine was campaigning last weekend and knocked on the door of a McCain supporter. During their discussion, the woman brought up the fact that she couldn't support Obama on the sole issue of abortion. My friend brought up something that I hadn't considered before. Simply this: no one wants abortions. We all want to live in a society where there isn't a need to have one.

I bring this up not to debate policies on abortions, but to illustrate the contrast between the previous response and the issues being debated within the parties. This shouldn't be the issue that divides the parties. In the moderate sense, there is a solution that will appeal to the majority of people, but the politics cater to the extreme sides of arguments. Just another argument for getting back to the middle.
post #42 of 51
Thanks so much for your wonderful and insightful post Zissou!!!!!!!!!


I am 30. But I voted for McCain. I worked hard for what I have, still am paying off college debt.......but the biggest difference for me is that I see freeloaders around me and it burns me. I see students and families in the town I work in that just expect things to be handed to them on a platter. They think what's mine is theirs and what's theirs is theirs.

I see (literally) immigrants going into a 'first care' center where my mother in law works. They don't have any insurance, they have learned that saying 'chest pain, chest pain' gets them in faster, then they ask for a pregnancy test. Each of these patients has a long number with 0002 or 0059 at the end - which signifies how many times they've come to 'first care'. I saw one - it was over 100 times. Who's paying for this, in effect - me.

I don't agree with universal health care when it's already this expensive. If the government gets involved, I can't imagine how expensive it will be come.

I think that teachers should be held accountable for their performance - it would eliminate the numerous amounts of teachers who are currently just teaching just because. They don't stay current in topics and teach the ways they were taught. Of course NCLB is poorly funded, but the premise is sound.

It rips me to see someone expect to speak another language and get frustrated with me that I don't know it. I know French because of where I was brought up. They know _________________ because of how they were brought up. But I believe we should all know English.

So any way, I'm not out to start an argument, just stating my opinions from a soapbox.

I don't think that McCain would have won no matter who was running against him. It was time for a change. I am hoping that this will help to reorganize the party - it badly needs it. The values it used to stand for are the things I believe in and vote for. But the direction it has been heading has made me frown. I hope that Obama swings center once in the white house - that's more along the lines of what I believe to be good for the country. We'll have to wait and see.
post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
That, and the widespread attitude that Palin attempted and failed to legitimize that only some of America, that would be specifically the rural reliably red parts, are 'real America'.
The funny thing about that is the county where Palin said she was glad to be in the Pro-American part of the country (Guilford County, NC), voted 59% - 41% for Obama.
post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
The funny thing about that is the county where Palin said she was glad to be in the Pro-American part of the country (Guilford County, NC), voted 59% - 41% for Obama.
I read about that today (WP). That's really ironic.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
The funny thing about that is the county where Palin said she was glad to be in the Pro-American part of the country (Guilford County, NC), voted 59% - 41% for Obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
I read about that today (WP). That's really ironic.

So that should make you all happy, she really WAS talking about all Americans and not just a select group.
post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
So that should make you all happy, she really WAS talking about all Americans and not just a select group.
It doesn't matter if the county she was in also included democrats. One of my co-workers is further left than me and she's from a county in Nebraska that went almost completely to McCain. There are Democrats everywhere, and independent voters who went to Obama in this election, too.

It isn't offensive because of political party. It's ridiculous, and still is, to say that one demographic is more American than another in America. Working-class rural areas aren't more American than anywhere else, nor are they as Palin and ohters imply any better.
post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renovia View Post
Thanks so much for your wonderful and insightful post Zissou!!!!!!!!!


I am 30. But I voted for McCain. I worked hard for what I have, still am paying off college debt.......but the biggest difference for me is that I see freeloaders around me and it burns me. I see students and families in the town I work in that just expect things to be handed to them on a platter. They think what's mine is theirs and what's theirs is theirs.

I see (literally) immigrants going into a 'first care' center where my mother in law works. They don't have any insurance, they have learned that saying 'chest pain, chest pain' gets them in faster, then they ask for a pregnancy test. Each of these patients has a long number with 0002 or 0059 at the end - which signifies how many times they've come to 'first care'. I saw one - it was over 100 times. Who's paying for this, in effect - me.

I don't agree with universal health care when it's already this expensive. If the government gets involved, I can't imagine how expensive it will be come.

I think that teachers should be held accountable for their performance - it would eliminate the numerous amounts of teachers who are currently just teaching just because. They don't stay current in topics and teach the ways they were taught. Of course NCLB is poorly funded, but the premise is sound.

It rips me to see someone expect to speak another language and get frustrated with me that I don't know it. I know French because of where I was brought up. They know _________________ because of how they were brought up. But I believe we should all know English.

So any way, I'm not out to start an argument, just stating my opinions from a soapbox.

I don't think that McCain would have won no matter who was running against him. It was time for a change. I am hoping that this will help to reorganize the party - it badly needs it. The values it used to stand for are the things I believe in and vote for. But the direction it has been heading has made me frown. I hope that Obama swings center once in the white house - that's more along the lines of what I believe to be good for the country. We'll have to wait and see.
Beautifully put .. I am 31 and have been lucky enough NOT to live where I grew up , by my own choice I moved around and Learned about what really is going on in the world... I did not vote , because the McCain of my youth is no more and Obama just scares me . I wish a viable 3rd party would have come out .
post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
AddieBee, social programs and social issues are not the same. Taking care of children who can't otherwise have healthcare and food is WAY different than adding amendments to the Constitution for gay marriage.



Last I checked there weren't any openings for "Candidate Vetter for 2012."

Geez, no wonder we're bitter. Everything that mentioned someone has to go dispel. I thought this thread was about "what's next" not "OMG look how stupid they are now?"
They are BOTH social issues, neet. Social programs ADDRESS social issues. Like feeding poor, hungry children. Poverty IS a social issue. You agree with one and not the other PROGRAM and that is your right as an American.
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Oh-- a Americans were okay with more moderate candidates pandering to her type, but terrified at the prospect of someone who doesn't understand the Constitution,thinks Africa is a country, wants to force abstinence-only ed and a ban on abortions on everyone in installing a theocracy, and has no political tactics besides hatred and fear running this country.
That Africa thing is just another untruth Z. Just another made-up media lie probably.

Like Joe the Plumber being related to Charles Keating.
post #50 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
That Africa thing is just another untruth Z. Just another made-up media lie probably.

Like Joe the Plumber being related to Charles Keating.
Eh, the rest of it is demonstrably true and much much scarier.
post #51 of 51
The scariest thing to me with a Democratic Adminstration is two things:

Appeasement and Entitlement
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