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post #241 of 261
I live in a suburb called Glendalough which is a pretty culturally diverse area. I'm fairly sure that my SO and I are almost the only 'white Australian' looking people living in our complex, and we're both British immigrants, (although I'm a naturalised Australian.)

I really enjoy living where I live. Our neighbours on one side are Indian, and they've taught me how to make a dynamite vindaloo curry. We have Irish, Polish, Chinese and American neighbours all around the complex, and it's fascinating talking to people and hearing their stories about where they come from and what it was like there.

I have no idea whether any of them are here illegally, but I don't really care. If they are, then it's the immigration department's problem.

The suburb I just moved from, Joondalup, has a British migrant population of 25% of the whole, as surveyed last year. But you never hear people complaining about them, eh?
post #242 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Sorry, but you haven't sufficiently "answered the questions"! How about quoting some legitimate sources to back up your arguments? You've often quoted the americanthinker, but I
unfortunately can't access that site from work, because one or more of its contributors has been accused of hate crimes.
I know you despise the mainstream media, but have you thought about why they've, i.e. the latter, been described as "mainstream"?
Sorry, I don't have sources to back up what my fingers type as it comes from my mind. I don't ask anyone else to explain their "feelings" so I'll not bother with explaining mine further than relating my personal experiences.

Not sure what you're getting at about me quoting from American Thinker, I don't quote from there very often, although its an excellent resource starting point. As far as hate sites go, TCS comes up as one as well on many work PC filters.
post #243 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
As far as hate sites go, TCS comes up as one as well on many work PC filters.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the types of posts we have had lately especially in the election threads. Makes sense to me.

We have some of the best firewalls at our work and I cannot access youtube or any personal type websites but have no problems at all with TCS. In fact I cannot even access photoshop at work. Interesting.
post #244 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
Not sure what you're getting at about me quoting from American Thinker, I don't quote from there very often, although its an excellent resource starting point. As far as hate sites go, TCS comes up as one as well on many work PC filters.
Actually, I believe that. I'm quite sure that it's true. All of the posts in IMO of people expressing great pride in their bigoted opinions will do that to a filter. Poor things must be substantially overworked.
post #245 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I wonder if that has anything to do with the types of posts we have had lately especially in the election threads. Makes sense to me.

We have some of the best firewalls at our work and I cannot access youtube or any personal type websites but have no problems at all with TCS. In fact I cannot even access photoshop at work. Interesting.
Nope, it's happened over a year ago with the software we used to have, and I know other members current and former that had the same problems.

Youtube is usually blocked due to it being streaming video that eats bandwidth, which is typically at a premium for a business.

A firewall blocks harmful content, not hateful.
post #246 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
A firewall blocks harmful content, not hateful.
Harmful and hateful are pretty much the same thing IMO and could easily be interchanged in most cases.

As for current members being blocked from TCS, they should probably report that to the site owner. If it is true, then perhaps she can get it sorted out.
post #247 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Harmful and hateful are pretty much the same thing IMO and could easily be interchanged in most cases.

As for current members being blocked from TCS, they should probably report that to the site owner. If it is true, then perhaps she can get it sorted out.
A filter works differently, it blocks content that is interpreted as bad. A firewall blocks viruses and potentially unsafe sites.

I think it's been brought up before, nothing can be done to remove it from filters as long as the content blocks are still in place.

Our work filter once caught many aviation related sites for containing words it saw as sexual in meaning, but they are actually real aviation terminology. Go figure.
post #248 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Actually, I believe that. I'm quite sure that it's true. All of the posts in IMO of people expressing great pride in their bigoted opinions will do that to a filter. Poor things must be substantially overworked.


Quote:
All of the posts in IMO of people expressing great pride in their bigoted opinions
I haven't seen any. I'm shocked that you would say untrue things like that about fellow posters.

Maybe, you just perceived some posts as bigoted and you are wrong.
post #249 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I haven't seen any. I'm shocked that you would say untrue things like that about fellow posters.

Maybe, you just perceived some posts as bigoted and you are wrong.
I think he's talking about me.

Which is fine, doesn't matter a wit to me that someone thinks differently. I don't have to justify my opinions. I still agree with myself, so all is well.
post #250 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
I think he's talking about me.

Which is fine, doesn't matter a wit to me that someone thinks differently. I don't have to justify my opinions. I still agree with myself, so all is well.
Actually, the people I'm referring to haven't posted in quite some time. It was, as you say, a long time ago.
post #251 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I haven't seen any. I'm shocked that you would say untrue things like that about fellow posters.

Maybe, you just perceived some posts as bigoted and you are wrong.
Oh no, I'm quite right. It was quite a long time ago, but that was when the filtering may have been reflecting the same as I understand it.
post #252 of 261
Just to drive home the point about 'guessing' that someone is an illegal immigrant:

Quote:
A jury awarded $2.5 million in damages on Friday to a Kentucky teenager who was severely beaten by members of a Ku Klux Klan group because they mistakenly thought he was an illegal Latino immigrant, the Southern Poverty Law Center said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/14/...ict/index.html

I'm not trying to compare anyone here to the KKK, but when this idea is taken to the extreme, this is what happens. And good for him for winning his lawsuit (I'm sure we all agree about that!).
post #253 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Just to drive home the point about 'guessing' that someone is an illegal immigrant:


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/14/...ict/index.html

I'm not trying to compare anyone here to the KKK, but when this idea is taken to the extreme, this is what happens.
That has been all over the news here, it's only about 45 miles away. That's the same group that came through here last year leaving cards on people's doors in the middle of the night that said; "You may sleep peacefully, the <religion > Knights of the Ku Klux Klan are watching over your neighborhood" Really lovely people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
And good for him for winning his lawsuit (I'm sure we all agree about that!).
We can only hope
post #254 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Just to drive home the point about 'guessing' that someone is an illegal immigrant:


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/14/...ict/index.html

I'm not trying to compare anyone here to the KKK, but when this idea is taken to the extreme, this is what happens. And good for him for winning his lawsuit (I'm sure we all agree about that!).
An immigrant from Ecuador was just lynched in Long Island, too.

Quote:
The police arrested seven teenage boys, who they said had driven into the village from out of town looking for Latinos to beat up. The police said the mob cornered Mr. Lucero and another man, who escaped and later identified the suspects to the police. A prosecutor at the arraignment on Monday quoted the young men as having said: “Let’s go find some Mexicans.†They have pleaded not guilty.
A Death in Patchogue
A Killing in a Town Where Latinos Sense Hate

Quote:
Words have consequences. Steve Levy, the Suffolk County executive, is learning that the hard way during a horrible week. Seven teenagers were arrested and charged in the fatal stabbing last Saturday of Marcello Lucero, an Ecuadorean immigrant, on a street in the Long Island village of Patchogue....Local lawmakers often complain about immigration, but Mr. Levy went much farther than most. He founded a national organization to lobby for crackdowns. He went on “Lou Dobbs.†He tried to deputize county police to make immigration arrests and to rid the county work force of employees without papers. He sought to drive day laborers from local streets, yet rigidly opposed efforts to create hiring sites. Even as tensions simmered in places like Farmingville, a hot spot for anti-immigrant resentment, Mr. Levy would not budge.
He parroted extremist talking points, going so far as to raise the alarm, utterly false, that illegal immigrants’ “anchor babies†were forcing Southampton Hospital to close its maternity ward. He denounces racist hatred, yet his words have made him a hero in pockets of Long Island where veins of racism run deep.
The High Cost of Harsh Words
post #255 of 261
They appear to be coming out in droves, every shape, size and age

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/...Ps75W1Nfqs0NUE
post #256 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
They appear to be coming out in droves, every shape, size and age

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/...Ps75W1Nfqs0NUE
That's absolutely revolting.
post #257 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuja View Post
There are ways to get around some of the problems that keep you from car-pooling. At my job location, there is a driver service that is free for people who use alternative transportation (so you can get home for free if you suddenly get sick in the middle of the day) and you can rent cars by the hour (might work to pick up kids from school in an emergency, but might not, depending and where you lived and such). As the price of fuel goes up, the infrastructure to get by without a car will improve.

You and I have different priorities, values, and opinions. It would be no kind of life for me to drive 30 miles work and I actively enjoy walking to work. It makes me happy. When I lived about 2 miles from work (passing a fair number of homeless people and some places that regularly had human excrement on the sidewalk), I felt bad when I got a ride from my spouse and happy when I walked. That's just my emotional and physical response to the situation. My sister and her spouse don't have a car (they moved because of his schooling and she's been able to find jobs within walking, riding and busing distance), and my spouse sold his car when he moved to Chicago. He was just talking about the certainty that he'll be mugged at some point walking home, but he still prefers not to own a car. We live in Orange County, California, and after he sold his car we had the two months we've ever had together before he went to Chicago. The lack of car actively improved our lives, because we walked more, and we love to walk together. So, in the world I live in, people do get by without cars.

You'll continue to vote for government subsidies for roads, and I'll continue to vote for bonds to build fast rail, you'll continue to vote for people who support cheap fuel and I'll continue to vote for people who will try to put environmental costs into the costs of energy and goods. I don't have any problem with it when people disagree with me about values. My values are quite different from the values of the majority of Americans. I just hope my values will spread!


Higher fuel costs increase the percentage of people who take public transportation. The increased ridership increases the money gained in fairs, increases the number of routes and buses on those routes (which in turn increases the usefulness of the system, which increases the number of people who use it) and increases the number of voters and taxpayers who support money going to public transportation. Essentially, you need to have a certain threshold of public interest and ridership to make a functioning public transportation system. Increased fuel prices in the US will increase the number of functioning public transportation systems in the US.

Different individual people will make different decisions about having children, raising children, and living together or not. All of this occurs right now, and having a car based society really just increases the distance between jobs and the distance people travel to go to their jobs; it doesn't increase the number of jobs available to spouses who live in the same house.

All of those bicycle suggestions are good, and I've actually seen all of those examples myself. I've even seen pictures of bicycles make for snow riding (although neither cars nor bikes can get through 2 foot drifts).
Okay if that is what you want great but the bill doesn't fit all. How do you get the cats to the vet? Get what you need etc.? What if you live in an area that has no alternate transportation, or if they do it does not go any where near where you need to go? What do you do about the people who are in wheelchairs or have other disabilites that prohibit walking or riding a bike. I too live a long ways from work, I have to, where I work is not an area that I would wish to live in and it is mostly business anyway. To get to the alternative transportaion you have to have a car and when you get to the end of the line you still have to have a car. Not every one can live where they work, I'm not going to turn down a good job because it isn't down the street. What are you going to do with the kids when the school down the street decides to change boundaries and the kids miss the bus, if there is one, or you have several kids all in different shcools that are involved in activities all over the place. Where I live it gets well below zero in the winter. I also have a daughter that works two jobs to support her family, she has one disabled child that requires medical help from many different Drs. & Hospitals. I agree your heart is in the right place but your plan would just create hardships for most people and drive the bankruptcy claims higer than they already are.
post #258 of 261
I have gotten a taxi, rented a car for 1-2 hours (cool system where the cars are parked in your neighborhood, you reserve them for short periods of time either online or by phone, and you get into the car with an card key that only works for your reservation), and had a friend give me a ride to get my cats to the and from the vet.

I understand that some people will continue to own and drive personal vehicles for a very long time. It will always make sense for people with some types of disabilities people to some type of non-human powered vehicle. I am not trying to force people not to use cars. I just want to change the incentive structure: I want it to be easier to avoid using cars. I'm not saying that you should sell your car, just that economic and city planning decisions should be made to make it more possible for you to live without a car in the future.

When I was a kid, if I missed the school bus, that meant that I either walked to school or missed school. As it happened, I chose to walk about a mile instead of taking a bus on my daily school commute when I was in high school (even carrying girl scout cookies). Some children use bicycles or public transportation to get to school.

I was at a mall today, and I didn't even go inside. I couldn't think of anything I needed. I'm able to carry my own groceries (those nice wire carts with big wheels would be good for someone who bought more groceries than I do), I order a fair amount of stuff online (almost never stuff stocked by stores within a 30 mile radius from my home, however), and I don't have any trouble getting what I need. If I was running a landscaping business it would be different, but to get supplies for just me and two cats in Irvine, Orange County, California, does not require a car. (I am giving my city of residence to emphasize that I don't live in an urban setting, and, in fact, live in a region famous for its car-based planning and less than idea public transportation. I'm lucky: where I live and what I do is very good for being carless, but it's not like I live in New York City!)

I'm not trying to make everyone do exactly what I do. I just want driving a car to cease to be the default assumption for all people and circumstances. I just want our built landscapes to be designed to make it easy and pleasant to walk and bike for pleasure and business.
post #259 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuja View Post
I have gotten a taxi, rented a car for 1-2 hours (cool system where the cars are parked in your neighborhood, you reserve them for short periods of time either online or by phone, and you get into the car with an card key that only works for your reservation), and had a friend give me a ride to get my cats to the and from the vet.
We don't have a cool system like that here. What we do have that is pretty cool is snow - lots of it. It gets below 0 F and stays there. Makes for pretty tough bicycling. There might be a guy with a taxi in the town 1/2 hr from the town I live in. We also don't have "malls" where you can go "inside." Not having a personal vehicle is not something I consider a reasonable option here. As a matter of fact I own a truck so I can haul firewood for our woodstove. When I lived in Palo Alto years ago I used my bicycle a lot. Having mild weather makes it real easy. California dreaming is nice, but most of the country is not California.
post #260 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuja View Post
I have gotten a taxi, rented a car for 1-2 hours (cool system where the cars are parked in your neighborhood, you reserve them for short periods of time either online or by phone, and you get into the car with an card key that only works for your reservation), and had a friend give me a ride to get my cats to the and from the vet.

I understand that some people will continue to own and drive personal vehicles for a very long time. It will always make sense for people with some types of disabilities people to some type of non-human powered vehicle. I am not trying to force people not to use cars. I just want to change the incentive structure: I want it to be easier to avoid using cars. I'm not saying that you should sell your car, just that economic and city planning decisions should be made to make it more possible for you to live without a car in the future.

When I was a kid, if I missed the school bus, that meant that I either walked to school or missed school. As it happened, I chose to walk about a mile instead of taking a bus on my daily school commute when I was in high school (even carrying girl scout cookies). Some children use bicycles or public transportation to get to school.

I was at a mall today, and I didn't even go inside. I couldn't think of anything I needed. I'm able to carry my own groceries (those nice wire carts with big wheels would be good for someone who bought more groceries than I do), I order a fair amount of stuff online (almost never stuff stocked by stores within a 30 mile radius from my home, however), and I don't have any trouble getting what I need. If I was running a landscaping business it would be different, but to get supplies for just me and two cats in Irvine, Orange County, California, does not require a car. (I am giving my city of residence to emphasize that I don't live in an urban setting, and, in fact, live in a region famous for its car-based planning and less than idea public transportation. I'm lucky: where I live and what I do is very good for being carless, but it's not like I live in New York City!)

I'm not trying to make everyone do exactly what I do. I just want driving a car to cease to be the default assumption for all people and circumstances. I just want our built landscapes to be designed to make it easy and pleasant to walk and bike for pleasure and business.
As I said your heart is in the right place and it is great to be young and dream. Do these things while you can, the day may come when you can't and you will have a different perspective! As for me I am old, I don't like playing in the snow, walking around the block can put me in bed for days and getting on a bicycle would be torture. I will keep my car, and I am thrilled to death that the gas is down so that I can actually afford to live. By the way what do you mean "non-human" powered vehicles? Never heard of such a thing.
post #261 of 261
Cars, electric wheelchairs, golfcarts, scooters, motorcycles, Segways and solar powered vehicles: all of these things are not powered by humans. Skateboards, bicycles, skis, kick scooters, roller skates and tricycles (ones made for adults that include baskets to carry things are good for people who don't have great balance any more) are all human-powered vehicles.

I freely admit that non-human powered vehicles was an awkward and confusing way to put it. The non was supposed to modify "human powered," not "human." Sorry about that.

My 63 year old father commuted to work on his bicycle the last time he was working, and will continue to look for part-time work less than 10 miles away so that he doesn't have to drive to work. Foot and human powered transport is not limited to the very young. It is limited to the healthy and active and it is limited by weather.

(I just bought my spouse some YakTrax walking traction devices and can't wait for it to snow, partially melt and re-freeze and him to try to see how easily he walk. He's in Chicago now, and spent the last two winters walking very, very slowly to school in Utah. Sometimes he slept on the couch in his department partly due to not wanting to walk home. Nonetheless, he had a car in Utah and is very happy to have sold it.)

I want it to be the norm that people use their own power for daily transportation. I understand that there will always be exceptions to this norm, but I want the default assumption to change.

To pretend to get back on topic: I really don't think Barack Obama wants the default assumption of non human-powered vehicular transportation to change like I do. But he was photographed bicycling pulling his daughters behind him.
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