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Is this an "historic" election? - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
No incumbent, not an incumbent. We had Reagan, then we had his VP Bush (Heidi said she counted VP incumbents as incumbents), then we had Bush, then we had Clinton against Bush's VP, then we had Clinton, then we had Gore (VP incumbent). There hasn't been a two-non-incumbent-or-VP election in my life either.
You are right, and I do apologize. I read the post wrong. That's what I get for logging into IMO when I'm ready to go to bed.
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
In 2004, the margins were the same (88% to 11%). If you want to have a philosophical discussion about why black people are overwhelmingly Democrats, that's a different thread.

Do you realize what you are implying? More importantly, why it's wrong and offensive?
I'm not implying anything. I stand on what I stated statistically. I don't need to quantify anything I say to you or anyone one else.

Your statement about "many of us" includes people you identify with. To me, "many of us" includes another group of people that aren't in your grouping. Does that make us any different?
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Even knowing that there are still plenty of racists around, and having witnessed the Civil Rights Movement as a young child, I'd assumed that the U.S. had progressed enough over the past two or three generations that race wouldn't play a decisive role for most, or at least a great many, white voters,..<snip>
I think you were right and this election proves it. But I don't think prior to this election a lot of minorities would have agreed with you. That is one reason why I'm pleased with the results. If he does a good job and wins a second term, can you imagine how inspirational THAT will be!
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
I'm not implying anything. I stand on what I stated statistically.
CNN showed a national map that had counties colored blue or red from all of the elections going back to the early 1990's. What was most compelling about those maps was the fact that the blue counties virtually disappeared from the south (not Florida) during this election, but had strong pockets of blue for other elections. So while there was a high % of African Americans that voted for Obama this round, there was an equal number of whites that refused to vote for him in certain geographic areas of this country.

The historical significance, IMO is more around handing off the torch from the stodgy old European descendents to a younger person who represents a generation of voters that didn't live thru the women's and racial movements of the 60's and 70's. It's a watershed moment, where anyone growing up in this country can aspire to be something greater than what they were born into, regardless of their sex or race.

And personally? It's the first elected president who is actually younger than I am!
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Well, I think we've got a pretty good idea of why. Neo-conservatism has hijacked the party from traditional conservatives and they just don't feel like the party represents their views any more. I'm an independent who has usually voted for Republicans, but this election I voted for one third-party, two Democrats, and two Republicans. One of the Democrats I voted for I voted strictly because I thought the Republican incumbent had been in office for too long.

I think that both Republicans and Democrats have to understand that this election was more about sending the Republicans a message than it was about the ascendancy of a new Super-Democratic Party. If the Democrats don't govern toward the center, if they don't build a bipartisan consensus, AND if the Republicans get their act together, all of this COULD turn again mid term.

Tim I agree with every single post you have made in this thread. I hope both parties realize the majority of the American people want that pendulum circling around the center, not swinging wildly from left to right.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
I've been talking to a lot of other ex-pats about the "race question" this election season, and I think I failed to appreciate that many, for the most part older, blacks really feared that whites wouldn't vote for an African-American. Maybe it was all the media discussions of the "Bradley effect", or just personal experiences of racial discrimination that raised that fear.

Even knowing that there are still plenty of racists around, and having witnessed the Civil Rights Movement as a young child, I'd assumed that the U.S. had progressed enough over the past two or three generations that race wouldn't play a decisive role for most, or at least a great many, white voters, so I failed to see just how historic Obama's win would be for a great many people.

I found this report of reactions in Kenya really interesting: Half a World Away, Kenya Exults at U.S. Outcome
Even I had doubts. I am of the first generation to grow up un-segregated and luckily I did not have racist parents. I see people as people, my generation generally does as well. However my nephews generation, that of Zissou's Mom are far, far better at it.

I was afraid that racism was larger than I expected. I honestly am shocked at how wide spread it still is in this country.

I have to admit, seeing the diversity of the crowd at Obama's acceptance speak brought a few tears to my own eyes as well. I felt a coming together instead of the rending apart I have felt over the last several elections.
post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
I have to admit, seeing the diversity of the crowd at Obama's acceptance speak brought a few tears to my own eyes as well. I felt a coming together instead of the rending apart I have felt over the last several elections.
I posted this under the unity thread but will repeat it here. This is the future of our country:

http://www.aprilwinchell.com/2008/11/05/tuesday/
post #38 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
The historical significance, IMO is more around handing off the torch from the stodgy old European descendents to a younger person who represents a generation of voters that didn't live thru the women's and racial movements of the 60's and 70's. It's a watershed moment, where anyone growing up in this country can aspire to be something greater than what they were born into, regardless of their sex or race.

And personally? It's the first elected president who is actually younger than I am!
, on both counts! One comment that has been made abroad is that Obama is a first-generation American on his father's side, which gives a lot of credence to the "American Dream"/"rags to riches" philosophy.

I've been living overseas for an awfully long time, and I never experienced the amount of attention this race has gotten abroad before, particularly among young people. Some of the reasons are ones most Americans wouldn't even think of. Two of my students, one half Serb/half Croat, the other Croat, were absolutely thrilled yesterday that Joe Biden had become Vice President, because to them he's a hero for pushing Clinton to get the U.S./NATO involved in the civil war in ex-Yugoslavia.

Some Americans might think that U.S. elections are simply "American business", but that's not the case, because their outcome affects people the world over.

I'm an occasional participant in a U.S. ex-pat forum, and although the discussions often reveal a partisan divide, most members agree that we're more affected by U.S. foreign policy than your average state-side resident, and that the Bush administration's policies have given us "pariah status", so Obama's election will hopefully have a positive impact on our personal and professional lives.
post #39 of 45
Check this out. Talk about opportunism at it's best

Full Edition "Obama wins" NYT on EBay, $74.00

The re-sealing zip-loc bag is thrown in for free
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Check this out. Talk about opportunism at it's best

Full Edition "Obama wins" NYT on EBay, $74.00

The re-sealing zip-loc bag is thrown in for free
Capitalization at its finest. I'm personally having friends in Europe send me their papers.
post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I think there's a very good chance this election will be seen as an historic turning point in American politics because it marked the demise of the Republican Party.
It may have marked the downfall of the "neocons." But not the Republican Party. Remember the election of 1992, with this same Democratic euphoria, and the debacle of the 1993 budget and tax bill, and the disastrous 1994 election.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
....the majority of the American people want that pendulum circling around the center, not swinging wildly from left to right.
Good picture....nice turn of words. Thinking of riding a wildly swinging pendulum almost makes me nauseous. And extreme lurches make a country nauseous, too.
post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
I posted this under the unity thread but will repeat it here. This is the future of our country:

http://www.aprilwinchell.com/2008/11/05/tuesday/
I think that anybody of a certain age, looking back on their teenage years, can remember feeling much the same way at one time or another, for one reason or another. There's no reason to think today's young people are any different or that these events are really all that unique or earth-shaking. It seems to be change to these young people mainly because their life experience is limited. Their entire formative years have been spent under George Bush and the Iraq war. Of course, Obama is a breath of fresh air, and a breath of fresh air always inspires thoughts of a better future. Even us aged decrepits can get caught up in that enthusiasm, it burns so hot. That's all very good for the country, BUT......

I'd caution them all to reign in their expectations. I suspect Obama is going to realize very soon that he needs to take a centrist and pragmatic approach because of the mess this country is in. Idealistic visions and goals are good to have, but you have to work on them one step at a time in order to achieve them, and the first step is laying the groundwork by cleaning up the mess and getting things back to where they should be. This is going to take longer than these young people realize and I'm afraid they may become disillusioned just when we're making some progress.

Everybody just take a deep breath and take the first step on the journey.
post #44 of 45
Wise words, Tim.
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post

I'd caution them all to reign in their expectations. I suspect Obama is going to realize very soon that he needs to take a centrist and pragmatic approach because of the mess this country is in. Idealistic visions and goals are good to have, but you have to work on them one step at a time in order to achieve them, and the first step is laying the groundwork by cleaning up the mess and getting things back to where they should be. This is going to take longer than these young people realize and I'm afraid they may become disillusioned just when we're making some progress.
By and large, we do know that.
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