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Political "what ifs"  

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I was reading another thread and considering the many comments where people have stated that they've made up their mind about the election and nothing is going to change it. I'm one of them. At that point I started thinking about if there was anything controversial about John McCain that could come to light that would change my mind. Nothing jumped out at me, but I'm sure some of you would be willing to suggest something and I'll consider it.

On the BO side I wondered "what if" the Berg lawsuit eventually reveals a coverup in that camp. While where you are born doesn't make you a worse candidate to lead, to try to circumvent the laws of our nation does. So...truthfully, if you found out that BO was not eligible to run for POTUS, and knew it, how would you respond with your vote?

I'm not interested in knowing your opinion of Phillip Berg. I'm more interested in knowing if there is any event, coverup, accusation, etc, that would change the manner of your vote.
post #2 of 19
there is nothing on the True side about mccain that would make me change my mind. I thought he was a better choice back in 2000
but bush won back then.
post #3 of 19
It would depend on the nature of the information.
Your hypothetical is too difficult to answer. I don't see how anyone could fake it and just run with all the clearances they have to go through.
But for arguments sake...I guess it would make me do some research and deep soul searching and comparison of the other candidate to decide. He would go down in my estimation but again there would be so many variables and such that it is hard to answer that question.
post #4 of 19
Well, since the candidate I'm thinking about voting for isn't actually running, I suppose the question in my case isn't relevant.

But, I suppose if Ron Paul was still running, it would be something that impugns his character. Or maybe something like he's got secret plans to declare himself dictator for life or to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Venezuela. I don't know. That's one of those things you don't think about ahead, you have to decide if and when you actually come up against it.
post #5 of 19
I heard an interview with Ron Paul yesterday, and I have to say he has either taken up drinking early in the day, or he was just flat unprepared for the questions he was asked. I didn't think anything he said made any sense, and he was almost incoherent some of the time.

I guess we all have bad days!
post #6 of 19
I think anything that McCain has in his past has been ferretted out already. He's been in politics way too long for a rival or he MSM to have missed something.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
I have this friend who two years ago thought the sun rose and set on John Edwards. Now she thinks he's the lowest thing that ever walked the earth.

So I'm asking myself if I could still support someone if they turned out to be an outright liar. Oddly enough, I guess the answer is maybe...depends on what it had to do with. Let's say McCain was not truthful about his health. That's a biggie. Or he breaks up with his wife, gets a new girlfriend. Meh... If I was troubled enough by it I would likely not vote at all. I have given this a lot of thought...even if every rumor about BO proved false, I would still not vote for him, as I believe where he intends to take this country is that dangerous.
post #8 of 19
I think at this point there couldn't be anything that could come out about McCain that would make me not vote for him, and a big part of that is that an Obama presidency scares the heck out of me (though I think we may get just that). So I would vote against him regardless at this point, and that means McCain.

Although, I've supported McCain since the 2000 primaries, and if it hasn't come out yet I don't think it will.
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
On the BO side I wondered "what if" the Berg lawsuit eventually reveals a coverup in that camp. While where you are born doesn't make you a worse candidate to lead, to try to circumvent the laws of our nation does. So...truthfully, if you found out that BO was not eligible to run for POTUS, and knew it, how would you respond with your vote?
The Berg lawsuit is crap, and even if it were proven (which it won't be, because Obama already has shown us his birth certificate, and he was born in Hawaii) that he was born elsewhere, he is STILL an American citizen because his mother was. Person born to a United States citizen overseas = natural-born American citizen.

You know, just like John McCain, who was NOT born in America but rather in the Panama canal zone. Who is still a natural-born citizen. Who nobody is questioning the eligibility of.

Basically, this whole idea of not being eligible is complete and total malarkey, and Berg, being a former law student, knows this. Why he's pushing it, I haven't a clue.
post #10 of 19
Well... actually...... if he wasn't born in Hawaii (his Kenyan grandmother and aunt have both said they witnessed his birth there) he would be ineligible to be POTUS because:

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

“(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.â€

His mother was 18 when she gave birth to him. 14 + 5 = 19. She didn't meet the requirement, so he would not automatically be a natural-born citizen.

This could have been solved by her having him naturalized when she reached the proper age, but that's never been documented as having been done. Which really doesn't matter anyway, because that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

This doesn't even could the "what if's" about his having been adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, thus possibly making him a citizen of that country which didn't allow dual citizenships.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
Well... actually...... if he wasn't born in Hawaii (his Kenyan grandmother and aunt have both said they witnessed his birth there) he would be ineligible to be POTUS because:[..]
Well, actually http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

And it doesn't matter, because he did release his birth certificate, and he was born in Hawaii. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp

To the original thread, I would have to find out something pretty drastic. I vote on the issues and on who would be a better president, not based on gossip, so I don't care if somebody had an affair or blahblahblah. I dislike McCain because of who he is, not because of his involvement with Keating or because he called his wife the big C-word on an airplane full of reporters, or because he can't remember how many houses he owns, or because he's older than FM radio. His temper comes into play, generally, but hey, maybe Strom Thurmond deserved to be punched in the face on the floor of the senate. What I don't want is a president who is going to do something as stupid as pick Sarah Palin as a running mate.
post #12 of 19
There is always a lot of speculation around election time.

A good trivia question: Who was the last person to run for President who was not born in a state?

There were rumbles at one point that Bill Clinton might be indicted by Canada while he was still in office, due to his complicity in selling HIV-tainted blood to Canada. The accusastions were a bit of a stretch (they proved he COULD have known about the problem, but probably didn't), but it's very difficult to make much of anything stick to someone running for high office.

The problem with Obama's birth certificate is that it doesn't match the normal Hawaiin format and appearance. I'd say the case would be pretty iffy; after all, you can't require more years of life than a person has had, so his mother is not affected by all the 19-year stuff.
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
The problem with Obama's birth certificate is that it doesn't match the normal Hawaiin format and appearance. I'd say the case would be pretty iffy; after all, you can't require more years of life than a person has had, so his mother is not affected by all the 19-year stuff.
Maybe it doesn't look like the other ones, but the Hawaiian State Department of Health has said that the one he released is real, and that any speculations to the contrary are ridiculous. And this is not the original from '61, maybe there's a difference in reprints? Whatever, the word of the issuing state department is good enough proof for me.

I'm sure if my birth certificate were posted someone would think it were fake-- it's poorly typed and looks like it was mimeod.
post #14 of 19
When people make up their minds about something, they rarely change.

Look at the 2000 Missouri election between McCaskill and Ashcroft. McCaskill was killed in a plane crash right before the election and the state still voted him into office. People preferred a dead man over Ashcroft!
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
There is always a lot of speculation around election time.

A good trivia question: Who was the last person to run for President who was not born in a state?
Oooh...fun for a change. I don't know. There was a few of them born before there were states, I think. Is Arkansas a state? Okay, it's not Bill Clinton. But only 1 president was born in California. Know who that was???

Quote:
The Berg lawsuit is crap
Doesn't matter, Zissou'sMom. The question was hypothetical. If it was true, and he knew it, would it make a difference to you.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
The problem with Obama's birth certificate is that it doesn't match the normal Hawaiin format and appearance.
well, birth certificates have changed a lot. i actually have 2 - my original: a black form w/white printing [looks old, too] & one that looks like the Obama certificate, only it's blue.
when i was 20, i got the chance to go to Europe. we couldn't find my original birth certificate [it's been found since then]. so i wrote to the state capital to request a new one & got the blue certificate. my mom cracked me up, tho - when we couldn't find it, she said, "well, i don't know what's happened to it. i had to have it when you entered 1st grade." i responded, "well, it has been 14 years!"
post #17 of 19
Well...there IS the airport bathroom stall scenario
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
Doesn't matter, Zissou'sMom. The question was hypothetical. If it was true, and he knew it, would it make a difference to you.
If it were actually proven that Obama was not eligible to run for president, then, no, I wouldn't vote for him... partially because it's idiotic to vote for someone when they can't actually become President (like voting for Nader).

But I thought it considerably more worthwhile to address the unstated purpose of this thread-- to raise unfounded questions about Obama's citizenship-- than to answer the vaguest hypotheticals. I did answer the hypothetical anyway, in my second post.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I thought it considerably more worthwhile to address the unstated purpose of this thread-- to raise unfounded questions about Obama's citizenship-- than to answer the vaguest hypotheticals. I did answer the hypothetical anyway, in my second post.
The post left if wide open for you to bring up any accusation against McCain that you questioned might influence my vote.

Quote:
At that point I started thinking about if there was anything controversial about John McCain that could come to light that would change my mind. Nothing jumped out at me, but I'm sure some of you would be willing to suggest something and I'll consider it.
Whether it's odiotic to vote for someone who cannot possibly win is questionable. Some people have ethics. The purpose of the thread was to understand what people really believe in. Party. Morals. People. None of the above. Take your pick.
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