1/2 Bengal & Colors Coming In At 14 Weeks

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by Sport

My friend....I'm not trying to be snotty, but Kleinfelter's Syndrome has Everything to do with being a tri-colored male. The color gene for felines is carried on the X Chromosome. http://fanciers.com/cat-faqs/tricolors.shtml http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/colors.html The Only way for a male cat to have 3 different colors is for him to have Kleinfelters Syndrome. Only 1 in every 3000 male cats is Kleinfelter Positive. We drew his blood, took a picture of his DNA, and compared it to his mother...his sibblings....and the "textbook picture" of the DNA of various purebreeds...Toygers, Bengals, etc... and concluded 99.9999999% that his father is a Blue Bengal.
So what your Vet is saying is that all tri-colored male bengals are essentially infertile?
In bengals, tri-color refers to brown marble bengals with three distinct colors, it does not refer to spotted, seals, silvers or blues, which by the way are not an accepted color. Blue bengals are an anomoly and not encouraged in the breed.
I can assure you that tri-color brown marbles come in two genders and neither are infertile, nor do the males have diminished testicles.

I think your Vet is jumping to conclusions, RE Domestic Tortie Males.

I believe the only true way gene mapping can determine if your cat has bengal blood is to find an ALC gene, or perhaps a paternity test on the suspected bengal cat whom you believe sired your kitten.

Furthermore, in the link you referenced, I can find no mention of bengal cats whatsoever.

I have no intention of being difficult with you, but I do breed these cats and your kitten looks nothing like a bengal. Sorry, that's the way I see it.
 
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sport

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Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

So what your Vet is saying is that all tri-colored male bengals are essentially infertile?
In bengals, tri-color refers to brown marble bengals with three distinct colors, it does not refer to spotted, seals, silvers or blues, which by the way are not an accepted color. Blue bengals are an anomoly and not encouraged in the breed.
I can assure you that tri-color brown marbles come in two genders and neither are infertile, nor do the males have diminished testicles.

I think your Vet is jumping to conclusions, RE Domestic Tortie Males.

I believe the only true way gene mapping can determine if your cat has bengal blood is to find an ALC gene, or perhaps a paternity test on the suspected bengal cat whom you believe sired your kitten.

Furthermore, in the link you referenced, I can find no mention of bengal cats whatsoever.

I have no intention of being difficult with you, but I do breed these cats and your kitten looks nothing like a bengal. Sorry, that's the way I see it.
Actually it is a biological fact. All tri-colored male cats period are infertile. And you are correct about the links, those were to explain to you how Kleinfelters Syndrome works in felines....and apparently you still do not get it.
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by Sport

Actually it is a biological fact. All tri-colored male cats period are infertile. And you are correct about the links, those were to explain to you how Kleinfelters Syndrome works in felines....and apparently you still do not get it.
You're correct I don't get it. My first stud cat was a tri-colored brown marble male. He was the foundation for our breeding program, he sired many litters.

With that said, I give up!
Your Vet is right, your kitten is 1/2 bengal, irrespective of what he appears to be, a pretty DSH.


Someday, if you're ever interested, you may want to PM me and I will explain the bengal cat breed to you, including color definitions, color development times in the spotted cats versus the marble cats, patterns and what is accepted in the breed and what is not.

In the mean time I hope you enjoy your little kitten, he's very cute.
 

babywukong

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Regardless of all the genetic details of which I have absolultely NO idea... Sport is VERY VERY VERY adorable
I loved seeing his pictures from when he was little, and now that his markings are developing, he's just getting more and more adorable. I've always had a soft spot for stripeys... Keep posting his pics please!
 

lore

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Why does it matter if he is infertile... or fertile, I'd assume as a pet you would take him in to be nutered.



& I have a tabby... that is Tri Colored... he's no Bengal, I'm quite sure of that... he's just handsome, just as your lil' guy is.



I just dont understand why the testing for a cat that is going to be nutered anyway...
 

spudsmom

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Originally Posted by Lore

Why does it matter if he is infertile... or fertile, I'd assume as a pet you would take him in to be nutered.



& I have a tabby... that is Tri Colored... he's no Bengal, I'm quite sure of that... he's just handsome, just as your lil' guy is.



I just dont understand why the testing for a cat that is going to be nutered anyway...
Oh my! What a handsome boy!!!! *thud*
 

epona

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Originally Posted by Sport

Actually it is a biological fact. All tri-colored male cats period are infertile. And you are correct about the links, those were to explain to you how Kleinfelters Syndrome works in felines....and apparently you still do not get it.
No it isn't.

There are THREE ways a tricolour male can exist - only ONE of which is infertile.

1. XXY (Kleinfelters) - always infertile
2. Chimerism (2 foetuses fused at early developmental stage when just a small cell cluster) - usually fertile, can pass on both red and non-red to offspring
3. Somatic Mosaicism (birthmarks) - fertile, but are genetically either red or non-red and can only pass one onto offspring

Somatic mosaicism is especially common in Rex breeds, one of the early generation Cornish Rex studs was a blue/cream tortoishell, was fertile, produced normal offspring, but was genetically a blue cat with cream birthmarks and could only pass on the blue colour to kittens.
 

rang_27

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Who cares about the genetics, he's too cute!!! I know almost nothing about differnt breeds, but his face kind of has a bengal shape (don't shoot me if it doesn't like I said I know little to nothing).
 

abbycats

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I agree with Rang! Sport is sooo precious!!! He has purfect Genetics to me!!!!!!
 

yosemite

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Originally Posted by Rang_27

Who cares about the genetics, he's too cute!!! I know almost nothing about differnt breeds, but his face kind of has a bengal shape (don't shoot me if it doesn't like I said I know little to nothing).
I agree about not caring about the genetics but it seems silly to argue the point with reputable, very knowledgeable breeders.
 

punkygirl0101

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I don't get why people with obviously not purebred cats care to argue, and try to say their cats are "Half siamese, or half bengal". I have plenty of Siamese mix cats, but they are still DSH, or DLH. I wouldn't argue over that. I have cats that look like snow shoes, and cats that look like russian blues..but again, unless I KNOW for a fact they are a purebred cat, they are just mutt kitties. And since all of mine are rescued, I don't know what they are.

I do have a tricolored male, who is a dilute calico..and MALE (For some reason people tell me hes not a male cat..he MUST be a female. lol, hes in fact, a male cat. I don't know if hes sterile or not cause hes neutered, so it doesn't matter.
 

abbycats

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Honestly I don't care if a cat had spots with a horn on it head and is half unicorn. The love for the cat is what counts. I'm not going to argue what kind of cat it is. I enjoy looking at Sports pictures and I hope the person who owns him continues to post his pictures as he grows up. He is really a beautiful cat and you can see what a darling personality he has from his photo's.
 

yarra

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What constitutes a tri-color? Our Little Boy aka Goober, is white, grey/black tabby and some brown??? Here are pictures...






He is the MOST adorable cat I have personally met, and as you can tell by the pictures, lives up to his nick-name Goober.

But as an artist, I see three colors. But gene wise, is that the case?
 

babywukong

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Oh just kill me now! I LOVE LOVE LOVE Goober's second picture!

Hmm.. whatever the colour, whatever the breed, they're all gorgeous. You guys are lucky to have 'em is all I can say
Wish I had a cat I could argue genetics about
 

hoshimi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

So what your Vet is saying is that all tri-colored male bengals are essentially infertile?
In bengals, tri-color refers to brown marble bengals with three distinct colors, it does not refer to spotted, seals, silvers or blues, which by the way are not an accepted color. Blue bengals are an anomoly and not encouraged in the breed.
I can assure you that tri-color brown marbles come in two genders and neither are infertile, nor do the males have diminished testicles.

I think your Vet is jumping to conclusions, RE Domestic Tortie Males.

I believe the only true way gene mapping can determine if your cat has bengal blood is to find an ALC gene, or perhaps a paternity test on the suspected bengal cat whom you believe sired your kitten.

Furthermore, in the link you referenced, I can find no mention of bengal cats whatsoever.

I have no intention of being difficult with you, but I do breed these cats and your kitten looks nothing like a bengal. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

Actually it is a biological fact. All tri-colored male cats period are infertile. And you are correct about the links, those were to explain to you how Kleinfelters Syndrome works in felines....and apparently you still do not get it.
If your vet told you _all_ cats with Kleinfelters are sterile then...

Your . vet . is . wrong !

...not the only wrong vet in the world of course, but wrong none the less....  by the way  _your_own_link_  agrees with this!
...also if your vet told you that the only way you can have a tri-colored male is Kleinfelters then he is wrong again.

---

All this aside, when it comes to testing there are of course tests that can confirm ALC ancestry a very simple one would be detection of the ALC Agouti gene which is different to both the domestic dominant or recessive Agouti genes, presence of this gene would confirm ALC ancestry, and odds are high of one parent being Bengal.

HOWEVER while many different tests could show ALC ancestry and even give a high probability of a Bengal parent, there is not a specific map for the breed. Love them as I do, SBT Bengals are a bit of a genetic mish mash, the breed may be established, but lets face it, the top breeders are still trying to stablise certain characteristics that may, or may not be present in any given F4 SBT Bengal. This is not easy to do, as ALC genetics are VERY different to DSH genetics, ALC's have, for example 2 less chromosomes 36 in an ALC 38 in a DSH or SBT Bengal. Yes two entire chromosomes less! EG Bengals (F1 / F2 / F3) are prone to sterility, particularly in males, as they often have 37 chromosomes leaving the X/Y chromosomes with an improper paring. 

---

Now I am not sure but I think both using different definitions of tri-colored hence there is some additional confusion?!

I have seen tri-colored used to describe the difference between the base color in a Bengals coat, the inner (richer) color of a rosetta and the outer dark black of the rosetta, and if this is what @Kai Bengals  is reffering to then that can be down to different alleles controlling color density, etc. Further more white (and also whiting) is even more complicated with different causes.

I am willing to bet neither you nor your vet has a degree in genetics

I shall stop my rant here


 
 
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