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New Breed

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hi all,
It has been a while since I talked about the new breed - the Bramble. I know some of you have been in discussion about it in the past, so I thought I would re-introduce it.

For those of you that don't know me, my name is Gary Bramlett and I have Magnoliachat Cattery. I have the oldest continuous Peterbald programs in the U.S. In fact, I still have the first PD in the U.S. (Fanya), who was the daughter of Nocturn iz Murino, the first Peterbald.

I have ALWAYS been taken with hairless cats, but also love the Bengal. So, I worked very hard and created a new breed of cat called the Bramble. I have been breeding them for 3 years now and have a good established line (except for now needing more genetic diveristy). This is such a wonderful breed. I know it is always controversial when a new breed is introduced and that is not my intention. I just want to let you know about it. This is a wonderfully unique breed that has a mix of the personality of the Peterbald (loving, wants to be held, etc.) with the personality of the Bengal mixed in. They have kept their love of water, athleticism, and all the hunting (even if it is play hunting in your house) skills. The Bramble will grab a toy and run to it's bowl and growl. You can walk right up and take it, though, without an argument. This is a fun cat and one that is sure to take the cat world by storm.

The BIG difference between it and the Bengal is the wire coat. This wire coat is similar in feel to a Wire Fox Terrier Dog, if you know what that feels like - it is not like the American Wirehair. It is almost one of those "must see to believe" cats. There are differences in the standard, as well. I wouldn't want you to think that this is just a "wire-haired Bengal". The personality is different, the cat is longer/more elegant, larger ears, etc.... I have plenty of pictures and some videos. Would love some feedback. There is a standard already written, as well. Right now, I have to register them with Rare and Exotic Feline Registry (if you go there, you will see a good write up on them).

If you go to youtube.com and put "Magnoliachat" in the search engine, you will find some videos of Brambles mixed in with those of Peterbalds. Here are some of the links to the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNOYooMHfoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk1fcBiEeTU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaQAZikqTAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0Uhq_a57Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkN35f3lFc

In order for this wonderful new breed to make it, though, there has to be more breeders. So, I am in a way recruiting breeders. I need to expand the genetic pool, so let me know if you are interested.

If you are totally against this breed, that is fine. I respect your opinion. I am a long time breeder and shower and can take the critisizm. I won't argue, though - not my style and I wouldn't want to offend anyone on this group. Please visit my site, if you have a chance. It is below on my signature line.

Also, in the meantime, here is a photo montage of my Peterbalds and, half way through, it goes into the Bramble pictures. Believe me, you will know when. ;-)
http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=6e7752bb153341df4ad03c&skin_id=1602&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

The wire coat now breeds true when a wire to wire breeding.
These are the percentage of wire coated kittens in breeding:
Wire Bramble to Wire Bramble = all wire Bramble kittens
Bengal to Hairless Peterbald = 75% wire, 25% hairless
Bengal to Brush coat Peterbald = 50% wire 50% straight coats
Bengal to Wire Coated Bramble = same as Bengal to Brush coat Peterbald

There are other breeds being used right now to get the genetic diversity needed. The Savannah has even been used. All cats that come out with a Bengal or Savannah coat are called "Straight Coated Brambles". The standard allows for outcrosses other than the PD and Bengal until January of 2009, however, that may be extended.

So, thanks for letting me re-introduce this wonderful and unique breed. Maybe it will spark some interest and we can go forward with TICA acceptance.
post #2 of 16
I've checked out your cats/cattery before

While I don't really agree with you (since there is a Wire-haired cat - the American Wirehair), its more interesting in HOW in the world you got wire-haired cats from a hairless and a Bengal - neither of whom has wire-hair in the background.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I've checked out your cats/cattery before

While I don't really agree with you (since there is a Wire-haired cat - the American Wirehair), its more interesting in HOW in the world you got wire-haired cats from a hairless and a Bengal - neither of whom has wire-hair in the background.
The coat is very different than the American Wirehair. It isn't similar. Pet a Wire Fox Terrier and you will get a good notion of what it feels like. This is not unruly wire hair. It lies down along the body and is really remarkable.

As for how I got the wire coat. It is in the Peterbald. There are about 4 different coat variations in the Peterbald. One of those variations is the brush coat. That is the coat I worked with to get this.

I know it isn't for everyone. But, persians aren't either.

I think once you see one and pet one, you will know that this is a unique cat that will make a lot of people happy. They are stunning to watch play. It is like you take a little trip to Africa and are watching wild animals. You can see it in their eyes. They are very lovable, though, and will entertain you for hours, then fall asleep in your lap.
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Oh, PLUS absolutely no shedding! It is amazing!
post #5 of 16
Thanks for the clarification on where the wire hair comes from. I'll stick to my shorthair cats (normal coats) and Cornish rex. Charlie's coat is ultra short and sheds VERY little.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Thanks for the clarification on where the wire hair comes from. I'll stick to my shorthair cats (normal coats) and Cornish rex. Charlie's coat is ultra short and sheds VERY little.
The Cornish ranks right up there on my top 10 list of breeds. I LOVE them! Almost went that route early on, but decided on another. I bought my Mom a Cornish and she fell totally in love. She and my Dad were never cat people until that Cornish came into their life. She now has one Cornish and one Bramble. Both my parents treat them like they are their children. Although, my Dad refers to them as "Monster #1" and "Monster #2". The Cornish attached to him and the Bramble attached to my Mother.
post #7 of 16
One of the many things I love about my Bengal cat is her soft pelt. I don't have shedding problems with her either.

I'm not a breeder and can't talk technical things with you. I just wanted to say that you have a very interesting new breed of cat and my best wishes to you and your cattery.
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks Abbycats! It doesn't feel rough. I think people get that idea by the description being a wire coat. It lays flat against the body of the cat. Just think of a Wire Fox Terrier or another wire terrier breed of dog. Feels very different and can have a soft feel. However, I do love the feel of my Bengal as well, so I completely understand. My Bengal, like most cats, does shed some, though. These have no shedding at all.
post #9 of 16
Mag, question?

You say they don't shed...but when you comb them, do you get any hair? With the Cornish they don't shed like normal cats, but if you comb them you can get fur on the comb.

Any cat that has a coat, no matter what length, will shed some.
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Mag, question?

You say they don't shed...but when you comb them, do you get any hair? With the Cornish they don't shed like normal cats, but if you comb them you can get fur on the comb.

Any cat that has a coat, no matter what length, will shed some.
There is no undercoat on most. Now, the few that have come out with undercoat, you could probably get a little hair out by raking with a very fine toothed comb - similar to a stripping knife known in the dog world for keeping a tight wire coat on wire coated breeds. Most do not have an undercoat, though, so there is no shedding at all.

Cornish Rex have a soft undercoat that they can lose at times making them almost hairless looking. Much different coat. However, I agree that the Cornish has very very little shedding.
post #11 of 16
I LOVE the look of your Peterbalds, and I'm not normally attracted to hairless cats. But your Peterbalds are absolutely stunning. I love the concept of the Bramble cat as well. I have 2 Bengal's one of them is on my signature, Simba. I think if you could get a Bengal/Peterbald cross that has the body of the Peterbald, and the rosettes and spots of the Bengal, it would be unbeatable. From what I could see on the slide film, there were some of the Brambles that did have the exact body of the Peterbald, along with the long thin face (Oriental face) and the extremely long ears, and the rosettes of a Bengal. Some of the others looked like Bengal mixes, though. I think if you could get them ALL to have that exact body style and face of the Peterbald, with the Bengal style fur, I would really love the Bramble breed. They sound like awesome cats, and I know how much fun Bengal's are, so I can imagine how much fun the Bramble's are. I have never felt a wire haired terrier, so I can only guess as to what their fur feels like. However, I think the Bramble sounds like a wonderful cat, and I'm very interested as to how this breed of cat continue's to develop.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
I LOVE the look of your Peterbalds, and I'm not normally attracted to hairless cats. But your Peterbalds are absolutely stunning. I love the concept of the Bramble cat as well. I have 2 Bengal's one of them is on my signature, Simba. I think if you could get a Bengal/Peterbald cross that has the body of the Peterbald, and the rosettes and spots of the Bengal, it would be unbeatable. From what I could see on the slide film, there were some of the Brambles that did have the exact body of the Peterbald, along with the long thin face (Oriental face) and the extremely long ears, and the rosettes of a Bengal. Some of the others looked like Bengal mixes, though. I think if you could get them ALL to have that exact body style and face of the Peterbald, with the Bengal style fur, I would really love the Bramble breed. They sound like awesome cats, and I know how much fun Bengal's are, so I can imagine how much fun the Bramble's are. I have never felt a wire haired terrier, so I can only guess as to what their fur feels like. However, I think the Bramble sounds like a wonderful cat, and I'm very interested as to how this breed of cat continue's to develop.
Thank you! It is a VERY exciting breed. Obviously, the type isn't steady yet, but it is getting there. I have a standard to work from, which helps. I really appreciate your encouragement. It is tough starting a new breed. I worked very hard, along with a few others, getting the Peterbald accepted in TICA. It was tough and there were a lot of set backs. Hopefully, the Bramble will be more smooth. I need new breeders, though, and to expand the gene pool more. I am trying to introduce it to a lot of different groups now.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
Just snapped a picture of my now 9 day old kittens. They are gonna be BIG! Can't wait till they are about 4 weeks old. That is my favorite time.

post #14 of 16
Me me! I have some questions about the Bramble

Why did you choose to breed to Bengals over another breed? Or even to domestics from the random population? And why are you including the Savannah as well?

How does the Bramble's coat compare to that of a Selkirk or La Perm?

Since you are also creating a new breed from a hybrid, are you concerned about facing some of the same resistance that is seen with the Toyger?
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
Me me! I have some questions about the Bramble

Why did you choose to breed to Bengals over another breed? Or even to domestics from the random population? And why are you including the Savannah as well?

How does the Bramble's coat compare to that of a Selkirk or La Perm?

Since you are also creating a new breed from a hybrid, are you concerned about facing some of the same resistance that is seen with the Toyger?
Thanks for the questions. I wrote the standard before I ever attempted to breed for the look. I wanted a wire coat that was different than the Selkirk or the La Perm (both of which have longer hair that is a little more frizzy). The Bramble has a short close to the body (tight) wire coat. Very different.

As for the choosing of the breeds. I have been breeding Peterbalds for years and helped get them accepted in TICA. They are now in championship status. There are several different coat types in the Peterbald and I knew that the "brush coat" Peterbald would be perfect to get the desired result.

I, also, ABSOLUTELY LOVE the hybrids. The Bengal and Savannah both bring that bit of wild into the home. Very different than the loving "almost glue-like" personality of the peterbald.

I wanted that great wild instinct - love of water, thrill of the hunt, and athleticism of the Bengal and Savannah. The Bengal was chosen for the rosettes and coloration, as well. The Savannah just added more of that personality and brought a higher ear set with larger ears (the Peterbald has a low ear set, but large ears). My aim with the ears is to get a low set, but large.

All of this went into planning two years before I bred my first PD to Bengal. The result was magical - yeah, I am a little biased.

What I got was what I wanted:
Wire coat
Longer body - more elegant lines than the Bengal
Wild instincts, but very LOVING personality (from the Peterbald)

Some that have seen them call them the "man's cat". They are big, tough, but loyal like a dog. They even run to the door when someone knocks. They growl like a dog first and then know it is ok once the person is inside. They are fine around children and older adults, though. The Peterbald brings that in. For example, they will grab a toy from you and take it to their food bowl and growl - just like in the wild. However, when you go to get it, they willingly give it to you (or want you to chase them like a puppy with a ball).

They walk on the leash easily, come when they are called, and love water - like I said - a man's cat. They would rather sit beside you than on you. Mine sit at my feet most of the time, but eventually will get up on my lap when they are sleepy.

As for acceptance, I don't worry about CFA. I have always been TICA and will remain TICA. Hopefully, we can apply soon for experimental breed with them. Right now, I register with Rare and Exotic Feline Registry. That is just to keep my records straight, so I will have a good history of the breed.

Hope that answers all the questions. Please, don't hesitate to ask more. I LOVE THIS BREED! It is extremely unique. Not really a hybrid from the wild - I used 2 hybrids and the Peterbald. Every cat used in the program was to get some benefit to meet the standard. I haven't perfectly met the standard yet, but am still striving. I have some that are very close.
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Oh, and the breed is non shedding! That is a big plus for a LOT of people.

Pattern, strength, athleticism, loving, loves water, playful, safe, non shedding, great feel to them, and stunning beauty. Perfect cat!
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