My sweet Georgie is one month away from being 4 years old, and was just admitted to the hospital 2 days ago with vomiting, diarrhea, fever, loss of appetite and lethargy. The doctor thinks this is FIP and i am utterly heartbroken over losing my kitty, but I refuse accept this diagnosis lying down as I have done tons of reading about FIP on the internet and it is often misdiagnosed. His globulins have gone down, and he is a little older than most FIP victims, so I am praying every second that they have gotten it wrong. I refuse to euthanize him anytime soon in fear of being wrong. Does anyone out there know how I can know for sure? Are there tests my doctor should be doing? My heart breaks for my sweet angel, who does not deserve one second of this misery. Please help with any advice!!!! -Mom2George
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FIP or no? I need help!!!
- Thread starter mom2george
- Start Date
In May 2007 Yoshi got sick and we went to the Vet.
They said he had more then 10 Kidney Stones in each Kidney and Fip.
The Fip test can be pos even if they do not have it.
Tere really isnt any test that is 100% for it.
Yoshi was given 6 months to 2 years but lasted 8.
I did not give up and went as far as I could with him.
Alot of times the vet get it wrong so there is hope for your cat.
They said he had more then 10 Kidney Stones in each Kidney and Fip.
The Fip test can be pos even if they do not have it.
Tere really isnt any test that is 100% for it.
Yoshi was given 6 months to 2 years but lasted 8.
I did not give up and went as far as I could with him.
Alot of times the vet get it wrong so there is hope for your cat.
I'm so sorry to hear that this is what the vets are thinking. Unfortunately, there is no true test for FIP other than a tissue biopsy after death. To get started, you need to have them test for the FIP antibody (titer), although it doesn't confirm a FIP diagnosis by any means, only exposure to the virus that mutates to FIP. Also, find out about the a/g ratio. Above a 1.0 typically rules out FIP. Since the globulin is low, it's quite possible that your kitty has a high ratio. My kitty had a high albumin result which made her a/g ratio high enough to likely rule it out. I don't know if it matters which of the two makes the ratio high but I assume not since that wasn't mentioned in the article I read.
There are several other more specific tests the vet could run as well, so just ask them what they offer. However, I would start with the basics if they haven't been run already just to keep you from having to pay a fortune for extensive testing. Good luck with your kitty and please keep us posted!
There are several other more specific tests the vet could run as well, so just ask them what they offer. However, I would start with the basics if they haven't been run already just to keep you from having to pay a fortune for extensive testing. Good luck with your kitty and please keep us posted!
I'm sorry to hear that your cat is sick. I had a kitten pass away in April - with suspected FIP (by the vets, I didn't agree). I've posted on a few other threads about what I learned, so I searched and will cut and paste what I wrote on a previoius FIP thread.
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I'm going to copy and paste what I said recently in another thread. I hope it helps. Make sure you rule out other possibilities (toxoplasmosis, bartonella, etc.). I guess hope for the best, but expect the worse. Get a second opinion. Zoey hasn't been doing well the last couple of days (likely because she was taken off the antibiotics despite a very high white blood cell count)), but I still feel like the research and effort I have put into her is worth it. FIP is a very tricky diagnosis - and my experience thus far is that once they get that label, it's hard to get new vets to ignore it, even if blood results aren't indicating it. Zoey is very sick....but I don't think she has FIP. That said, there are lots of cats who are diagnosed with FIP and do actually have it. It's a very fine line, but I think as long as your cat has some fight in her, you need to give her a chance.
for you and Babe. I truly hope this is not FIP and that she is doing better!
POST:
"I am very sorry that you have gotten this bad news about your kitten!
However, I am with those suggesting that you be cautious about the diagnosis. I'd guess that biopsy results are significantly more reliable than blood tests, but unless they are absolutely sure, I would be hesitant to put a cat to sleep before giving it a chance to recover. Sounds like you've changed her diet to a new protein source, which is great. If she's getting better, just see how she does. If she's been through surgery and everything else, it might take her a bit of time to emotionally recover. Until you see her suffering, I would see how it goes. I have never been through this, but most say that the cat will "tell you" when they are ready to go.
My little Zoey has been through a lot in the last 4 weeks, including an FIP diagnosis. At first, I was hesitant to accept the FIP diagnosis, but after doing a lot of research, and seeing her progress, I accepted it. Then, she started getting better and it became evident that she had a broken tail (missed on initial glance at the x-rays). Explained many of her symptoms, but not all. In my opinion, the latest blood work does not indicate FIP. It indicates some other sort of infection, possibly an ear infection (she was treated for ear mites at the vet, but her ears are still really gunky). I never gave my vet the chance to suggest I put her to sleep, but I know he was giving me that possibility by the way he spoke of treatments - he called it palliative care. There was one day that I would have very likely put her to sleep (based on the reports of people I had checking on her, she appeared to be suffering more than I had seen), but luckily I was at work that day and she was much better by the time I got home. Then, her eyes were acting wonky one day and an emergency vet suggested we put her to sleep (despite blood work indicating that she was improving). If I would have PTS on any of these occasions, I would not have seen Zoey walking normally, eating well, playing, and "talking" as she is now. She is not yet back to her old self, but everyday I feel we make a step back toward normal.
The reason I talk about Zoey so in depth is that I truly felt that I needed to give her a chance to recover from everything that was going on with her. FIP is such a difficult disease to diagnose, and there are many treatable things that it could be mistaken for. Make sure you are confident with the diagnosis before making and decisions, and don't put her to sleep because you fear she might get worse. Cross that bridge when you get there. Even if you are expecting the worst, you might be pleasantly surprised by the best!
Do her blood results indicate that she may have FIP? Albumin/Globulin levels, anemia, lymphocytes? FIP titer (not that I'd trust this for anything...)? The more evidence the builds, the more likely the diagnosis.
Edited: To add to what Blaise said, I joined that particular FIP group when I was dealing with Zoey. Through that, I found http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIPCatSupport/ , which gets a bit more activity. I think many of the people posting on these groups are the same. However, they are EXTREMELY helpful. If you post blood and test results, they will help you interpret them. They will give you differentials to check out. They will suggest possible courses of action as well. If Pix does have FIP, they will provide great support for you as her disease progresses. Please check the two groups out!"
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Having just gone through a suspected case of FIP with my 8 month old kitten (we have put her to sleep, but I still do not believe she had FIP), I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I have definitely done plenty of research and have plenty of advice for those facing an FIP "diagnosis".
The first thing you should know (and I wouldn't be surprised if the vet approved literature didn't tell you this) is that FIP is very difficult to diagnose, especially the dry form. It is often misdiagnosed. The only definitive way of diagnosising FIP is through autopsy. This is not to say that your cat does not have FIP. But, there have been many cats who have been "diagnosed" with FIP and lived for years after. Whether they had FIP or not, who knows.
So, my first question to ask the vet would be what are they basing the diagnosis on. I'm hoping they have done blood work. If they are diagnosing FIP without doing blood work, find another vet...immediately.
Things they might see in symptoms (you will notice these symptoms match many other cat illnesses):
- lethargy
- weight loss (often over a long period of time, before symptoms are noticed)
- inappetance
- neurological symptoms (loss of balance/coordination, tremors)
- occular problems (uveitis, inflammation in eye, etc)
- persistent fever that typically does not respond to antibiotics (your cat's immune system is in overdrive)
Things they might see on blood work:
- low albumin to globulin ratio (these are blood proteins and aren't always included in standard blood work, you may have to ask for them to check this - and check it everytime you do blood work)
- high globulin (usually, the low a:g ratio is caused by high globulin - there is a test that can check which globulins are high, and "gamma globulins" are usually eleveated with FIP)
- high neutrophils (a type of white blood cell)
- low lymphocites (your vet might refer to this as "lymphopenia")
- high coronavirus titer (this is usually a separate test...and again, if your vet is basing the FIP diagnosis purely on a high coronavirus titer, find another vet - most cats will be positive for this...it DOES NOT mean they have FIP, but it is a possibility (if the test was negative, then FIP would be ruled out))
- anemia
None of these things, in isolation, tells you it is FIP. The more of them that accumulate, the more likely FIP is. However, there are a lot of diseases that FIP mimics and causes similar symptoms/blood work values.
I would suggest joining this group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIPCatSupport/
I would say a couple of them are "experts" on FIP. If you post your cat's blood results there (just ask your vet for a copy), they will help you interpret them. I will look out for your post!
My best suggestion would be to be sure you ASK QUESTIONS and DO RESEARCH (search FIP, as well as your cat's symptoms to see what else could cause those). You are already on the right path by coming here and trying to find out more. I would also recommend a second opinion. My experience is that once a vet has FIP in their mind, it's hard to change it. Find a reputable vet in your area and take your cat and his blood work there for a second peak. They may very well say FIP as well, but at least you gave it a shot. I wouldn't even be afraid to ask for a third opinion, if you still weren't comfortable with the diagnosis. I had 3 vets say FIP about Zoey - and I KNOW 2 of them based that information solely on the "diagnosis" of the first vet. Had they looked at her most recent blood work, FIP would not have been on the top of their list (for the record, I believe she had an severe infection that became harder to fight after she broke her tail, somehow - a broken tail that was MISSED on the first look at the x-rays because the vet was so set on FIP).
Without knowing what other symptoms your cat has and what his/her blood values are, I can't give you a whole lot more information at the moment about other possibilities. There are a lot of them, however, and posting some info about your cat would be helpful.
The one thing that strikes me is that your cat responded well to antibiotics. From my understanding, FIP should not respond to antibiotics, unless it is fighting a secondary infection (which could certainly be the case). FIP is caused by a virus, not a bacteria. Standard treatment for FIP is prednisone and antibiotic (antibiotic only because prednisone supresses the immune system). Be careful with prednisone - if your vet puts your cat on it, and he/she does not have FIP, but some other infection instead, prednisone could worsen the infection.
Please do not write your cat off yet. And certainly don't let your vet write him/her off either!
I hope this helps a bit! I know it is very hard to get such bad news and to feel there is no way you can help him/her. But try to stay positive and hopeful!
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That was a lot, but I hope it was valuable to you! Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about my experience. that George feels better soon and that you get the answers to your questions!
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I'm going to copy and paste what I said recently in another thread. I hope it helps. Make sure you rule out other possibilities (toxoplasmosis, bartonella, etc.). I guess hope for the best, but expect the worse. Get a second opinion. Zoey hasn't been doing well the last couple of days (likely because she was taken off the antibiotics despite a very high white blood cell count)), but I still feel like the research and effort I have put into her is worth it. FIP is a very tricky diagnosis - and my experience thus far is that once they get that label, it's hard to get new vets to ignore it, even if blood results aren't indicating it. Zoey is very sick....but I don't think she has FIP. That said, there are lots of cats who are diagnosed with FIP and do actually have it. It's a very fine line, but I think as long as your cat has some fight in her, you need to give her a chance.
for you and Babe. I truly hope this is not FIP and that she is doing better!
POST:
"I am very sorry that you have gotten this bad news about your kitten!
However, I am with those suggesting that you be cautious about the diagnosis. I'd guess that biopsy results are significantly more reliable than blood tests, but unless they are absolutely sure, I would be hesitant to put a cat to sleep before giving it a chance to recover. Sounds like you've changed her diet to a new protein source, which is great. If she's getting better, just see how she does. If she's been through surgery and everything else, it might take her a bit of time to emotionally recover. Until you see her suffering, I would see how it goes. I have never been through this, but most say that the cat will "tell you" when they are ready to go.
My little Zoey has been through a lot in the last 4 weeks, including an FIP diagnosis. At first, I was hesitant to accept the FIP diagnosis, but after doing a lot of research, and seeing her progress, I accepted it. Then, she started getting better and it became evident that she had a broken tail (missed on initial glance at the x-rays). Explained many of her symptoms, but not all. In my opinion, the latest blood work does not indicate FIP. It indicates some other sort of infection, possibly an ear infection (she was treated for ear mites at the vet, but her ears are still really gunky). I never gave my vet the chance to suggest I put her to sleep, but I know he was giving me that possibility by the way he spoke of treatments - he called it palliative care. There was one day that I would have very likely put her to sleep (based on the reports of people I had checking on her, she appeared to be suffering more than I had seen), but luckily I was at work that day and she was much better by the time I got home. Then, her eyes were acting wonky one day and an emergency vet suggested we put her to sleep (despite blood work indicating that she was improving). If I would have PTS on any of these occasions, I would not have seen Zoey walking normally, eating well, playing, and "talking" as she is now. She is not yet back to her old self, but everyday I feel we make a step back toward normal.
The reason I talk about Zoey so in depth is that I truly felt that I needed to give her a chance to recover from everything that was going on with her. FIP is such a difficult disease to diagnose, and there are many treatable things that it could be mistaken for. Make sure you are confident with the diagnosis before making and decisions, and don't put her to sleep because you fear she might get worse. Cross that bridge when you get there. Even if you are expecting the worst, you might be pleasantly surprised by the best!
Do her blood results indicate that she may have FIP? Albumin/Globulin levels, anemia, lymphocytes? FIP titer (not that I'd trust this for anything...)? The more evidence the builds, the more likely the diagnosis.
Edited: To add to what Blaise said, I joined that particular FIP group when I was dealing with Zoey. Through that, I found http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIPCatSupport/ , which gets a bit more activity. I think many of the people posting on these groups are the same. However, they are EXTREMELY helpful. If you post blood and test results, they will help you interpret them. They will give you differentials to check out. They will suggest possible courses of action as well. If Pix does have FIP, they will provide great support for you as her disease progresses. Please check the two groups out!"
_________________________________
Having just gone through a suspected case of FIP with my 8 month old kitten (we have put her to sleep, but I still do not believe she had FIP), I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I have definitely done plenty of research and have plenty of advice for those facing an FIP "diagnosis".
The first thing you should know (and I wouldn't be surprised if the vet approved literature didn't tell you this) is that FIP is very difficult to diagnose, especially the dry form. It is often misdiagnosed. The only definitive way of diagnosising FIP is through autopsy. This is not to say that your cat does not have FIP. But, there have been many cats who have been "diagnosed" with FIP and lived for years after. Whether they had FIP or not, who knows.
So, my first question to ask the vet would be what are they basing the diagnosis on. I'm hoping they have done blood work. If they are diagnosing FIP without doing blood work, find another vet...immediately.
Things they might see in symptoms (you will notice these symptoms match many other cat illnesses):
- lethargy
- weight loss (often over a long period of time, before symptoms are noticed)
- inappetance
- neurological symptoms (loss of balance/coordination, tremors)
- occular problems (uveitis, inflammation in eye, etc)
- persistent fever that typically does not respond to antibiotics (your cat's immune system is in overdrive)
Things they might see on blood work:
- low albumin to globulin ratio (these are blood proteins and aren't always included in standard blood work, you may have to ask for them to check this - and check it everytime you do blood work)
- high globulin (usually, the low a:g ratio is caused by high globulin - there is a test that can check which globulins are high, and "gamma globulins" are usually eleveated with FIP)
- high neutrophils (a type of white blood cell)
- low lymphocites (your vet might refer to this as "lymphopenia")
- high coronavirus titer (this is usually a separate test...and again, if your vet is basing the FIP diagnosis purely on a high coronavirus titer, find another vet - most cats will be positive for this...it DOES NOT mean they have FIP, but it is a possibility (if the test was negative, then FIP would be ruled out))
- anemia
None of these things, in isolation, tells you it is FIP. The more of them that accumulate, the more likely FIP is. However, there are a lot of diseases that FIP mimics and causes similar symptoms/blood work values.
I would suggest joining this group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIPCatSupport/
I would say a couple of them are "experts" on FIP. If you post your cat's blood results there (just ask your vet for a copy), they will help you interpret them. I will look out for your post!
My best suggestion would be to be sure you ASK QUESTIONS and DO RESEARCH (search FIP, as well as your cat's symptoms to see what else could cause those). You are already on the right path by coming here and trying to find out more. I would also recommend a second opinion. My experience is that once a vet has FIP in their mind, it's hard to change it. Find a reputable vet in your area and take your cat and his blood work there for a second peak. They may very well say FIP as well, but at least you gave it a shot. I wouldn't even be afraid to ask for a third opinion, if you still weren't comfortable with the diagnosis. I had 3 vets say FIP about Zoey - and I KNOW 2 of them based that information solely on the "diagnosis" of the first vet. Had they looked at her most recent blood work, FIP would not have been on the top of their list (for the record, I believe she had an severe infection that became harder to fight after she broke her tail, somehow - a broken tail that was MISSED on the first look at the x-rays because the vet was so set on FIP).
Without knowing what other symptoms your cat has and what his/her blood values are, I can't give you a whole lot more information at the moment about other possibilities. There are a lot of them, however, and posting some info about your cat would be helpful.
The one thing that strikes me is that your cat responded well to antibiotics. From my understanding, FIP should not respond to antibiotics, unless it is fighting a secondary infection (which could certainly be the case). FIP is caused by a virus, not a bacteria. Standard treatment for FIP is prednisone and antibiotic (antibiotic only because prednisone supresses the immune system). Be careful with prednisone - if your vet puts your cat on it, and he/she does not have FIP, but some other infection instead, prednisone could worsen the infection.
Please do not write your cat off yet. And certainly don't let your vet write him/her off either!
I hope this helps a bit! I know it is very hard to get such bad news and to feel there is no way you can help him/her. But try to stay positive and hopeful!
________________________________________________________
That was a lot, but I hope it was valuable to you! Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about my experience. that George feels better soon and that you get the answers to your questions!
Now that I posted all that, let me ask:
What tests have been run?
What treatments have been tried?
You are right: George is not the typical profile of an FIP cat. It is usually kittens or senior cats.
I'm glad you are not considering euthanizing at this point. When I put Zoey to sleep, it was not because she had FIP. It was because it was clear that she had no more fight left in her, regardless of what she was fighting.
What tests have been run?
What treatments have been tried?
You are right: George is not the typical profile of an FIP cat. It is usually kittens or senior cats.
I'm glad you are not considering euthanizing at this point. When I put Zoey to sleep, it was not because she had FIP. It was because it was clear that she had no more fight left in her, regardless of what she was fighting.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
thank you so so so much for your response, I have felt so overwhelmed and alone since talking to the vet and you have made me realize not to accept this as a death sentence for George. Good news today his globulins have gone down, but he still has a fever (104 degrees for the past 3 days) that is not responding to antibiotics. They have done blood work, and sent off this and a fecal sample to specialists at Auburn University. He has begun to drink water, but he still will not eat, and hasn't for about 4 days now. One thing that keeps me hopeful is some of the symptoms that he DOESN'T have, such as the neurological issues, the occular issues and the weight loss; he has only begun to not eat these past 4 days when his symptoms became noticeable, and his weight as of 3 days ago was actually up from about 4 months ago when he was at the vet for a checkup. Thank you so much also for suggesting the FIP cat support group, hopefully I can find some answers. It breaks my heart to not have my baby here with me when he is so sick, but I hope he knows I am doing everything I can at home, all the reasearch I can do, in order to help fix him. Do you know of any other diseases that might mimic the symptoms of FIP? I would love to explore these other options and hopefully find that he has something cureable. Thanks again so much for your information and support. I will keep you posted!!
Last Jan Meeko had a fever of almost 105 and looked bad and refused to eat and everything. She is fine now and is the mom of Yoshi that I lost. I would keep doing everything you can like you are. Yoshi was 4 when they said it was Fip. I couldnt understand it either because he had never been out and none of the others have it even his mom.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
Did they ever tell you what was wrong with Meeko? What kind of treatment did they use for her I"m glad to hear that all is well now with her.
Off the top of my head, toxoplasmosis and bartonella can mimic FIP. There are many more and I see you posted that same question on the Yahoo group, and I do remember reading a list of these diseases on there. I can't seem to locate it now, so hopefully someone will post it for you soon!
What antibiotic has George been on? Zoey did not improve on Amoxil, but did on Clavomax. It may take more than one. Before she was put to sleep, we had just started her on one that would have treated a number of other things as well. I can't remember the name at the moment. I THINK it was Clindamycin. We never had the chance to see if it would have worked.
What antibiotic has George been on? Zoey did not improve on Amoxil, but did on Clavomax. It may take more than one. Before she was put to sleep, we had just started her on one that would have treated a number of other things as well. I can't remember the name at the moment. I THINK it was Clindamycin. We never had the chance to see if it would have worked.
We do not know what Meeko had.
Three weeks before she got sick she had gone to the vets for blood tests and they were fine.
Then she got that high fever.
There is one think that happenes to Meeko ever since she alsot died at 3 months.
She gets very runny eyes and then its ok for a while.
Right now she has the eye problem again.
She had Clavamox and some shot that starts with a K.
I sure hope your cat will be ok.
I even talked to Uc Davis about Yoshi before he was pts but no one could help him.
Three weeks before she got sick she had gone to the vets for blood tests and they were fine.
Then she got that high fever.
There is one think that happenes to Meeko ever since she alsot died at 3 months.
She gets very runny eyes and then its ok for a while.
Right now she has the eye problem again.
She had Clavamox and some shot that starts with a K.
I sure hope your cat will be ok.
I even talked to Uc Davis about Yoshi before he was pts but no one could help him.
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I'm so sorry your George isn't feeling well
When Wukong was diagnosed with FIP, his belly was already swollen with fluids. Before his belly got swollen, there didn't seem to be any change in his behaviour. He didn't have fevers or vomitting.
In fact, before I read this thread I didn't even know FIP had such accompanying symptoms, nor that there wasn't really a 100% foolproof test for FIP. Looks like we all have to be very careful not to condemn a cat that's been diagnosed as having FIP.
Best of luck to you and George
When Wukong was diagnosed with FIP, his belly was already swollen with fluids. Before his belly got swollen, there didn't seem to be any change in his behaviour. He didn't have fevers or vomitting.
In fact, before I read this thread I didn't even know FIP had such accompanying symptoms, nor that there wasn't really a 100% foolproof test for FIP. Looks like we all have to be very careful not to condemn a cat that's been diagnosed as having FIP.
Best of luck to you and George
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #12
You have all been so sweet with your replies to my post, and I truly appreciate all the support for George. Hopefully tomorrow when I go to visit him at the hospital we'll have some improvement. I will keep you all posted! and thanks zoeysmom for the other possible illnesses, I will definitely be sure to mention those to the vet tomorrow.
How did it go at the vet?
