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Secession

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
There have been various mentions in another thread about different states trying to seperate.

What do you think about Secession from the US?

What do you think about parts of states forming new states?

Should cities have the right to seperate from their state and join another state?

Should the Sioux nation be able to be its own soverign nation?

I am from Southern Oregon originally and there was always talk about how Nothern California and Southern Oregon should be able to form the State of Jefferson. In fact, I think that it almost made it to Congress at one point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Jefferson
post #2 of 15
Only Texas has the right to divide into more states; as many as five, in fact. It was given that right by the treaty through which it joined the union as a sovereign country. It does NOT have the right to secede, unless the United States abrogates the treaty.

Vermont has talked about secession, and it's interesting to hear the criticism of Sarah Palin (she spoke at a meeting of Alaska secessionists) and think that Bernie Sanders (the Independent senator of Vermont) has done the very same, and even expressed the opinion that Vermont should secede, since the "experiment" that is the United States seems to have been unsuccessful.

There IS a secessionist part in Texas, too. They make noise every few years.
post #3 of 15
I think the whole idea is ridiculous. Most of these so called secessionists drive their cars on federal highways, enjoy the bounty of the federal government but want to take their resources and divvy them out themselves.
Most of the people who really take this stuff to heart are really fringe types who are wasting their time because it aint gonna happen.
The Palin thing rankles because she sure was loving some federal earmarks and lobbying for federal funds but then takes the AIP seriously. Bunch of hypocrites in my book.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC12 View Post
I think the whole idea is ridiculous. Most of these so called secessionists drive their cars on federal highways, enjoy the bounty of the federal government but want to take their resources and divvy them out themselves.
Most of the people who really take this stuff to heart are really fringe types who are wasting their time because it aint gonna happen.
The Palin thing rankles because she sure was loving some federal earmarks and lobbying for federal funds but then takes the AIP seriously. Bunch of hypocrites in my book.
No, it's not going to happen but people can dream.

http://www.articlesbase.com/politics...de-467690.html

Montana recently threatened to secede.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/mon...ividual_gun_r/
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
What do you think about parts of states forming new states?
Texas is allowed to! it was part of the annexation document: http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp
post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecanopener View Post
No, it's not going to happen but people can dream.

http://www.articlesbase.com/politics...de-467690.html

Montana recently threatened to secede.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/mon...ividual_gun_r/

I guess if it helps people sleep better and get through life then dream they should.
post #7 of 15
i guess San Francisco could become a city state .
post #8 of 15
The Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma (the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole) have sovereign nation status. And I believe this is true of all US Indian Tribes.
post #9 of 15
How many states could survive without federal funding? I lived in Guam (which is not a state, it is a providence) but ALL their funding comes from the US. The government is a mess, the governor spent territory revenue for his daughters wedding (1000 head banquet, fireworks, etc). Most of the roads are not drivable (except in the tourist area), and they want to be...not a state (although the smart majority DO want that) but their own country!

I can see a state breaking off and forming another (heck, I live in West Virginia...where do you think that came from) but I don't think any state could survive on their own as a country. Well, maybe Nevada.
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I can see a state breaking off and forming another (heck, I live in West Virginia...where do you think that came from) but I don't think any state could survive on their own as a country. Well, maybe Nevada.
heck, Texas WAS its own country... altho that was back in the 'dark ages'
post #11 of 15
Vermont is the only state which was a separate republic and some of us are still proud of that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Republic

What happened was that after the Revolutionary War (thanks in large part to the fine work of Ethan Allen and his Green mountain boys) the land which is now Vermont was claimed by New Hampshire and New York.
Quote:
In 1778, Allen appeared before the Continental Congress on behalf of a claim by Vermont for recognition as an independent state. Due to the New York (and New Hampshire) claim on Vermont, Congress was reluctant to grant independent statehood to Vermont. Allen then negotiated with the governor of Canada between 1780 and 1783 in order to establish Vermont as a British province and to gain military protection for its residents. Because of this, the US charged him with treason; however, because the negotiations were demonstrably intended to force action on the Vermont case by the Continental Congress, the charge was never substantiated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Allen

Ethan by the way was an ornery cuss if ever there was one.

We finally did work things out with our neighbors (well, sort of) and were admitted as #14. By the way there is a regional joke that when the settlers came up the Connecticut River out of the Pioneer Valley in Massachusetts, some turned right and settled New Hampshire, and some turned left and settled Vermont.

Out of staters don't understand Vermont politics but if you want a good chuckle, read about how an old dairy farmer without a highschool diploma foiled a millionaire out-of-state carpetbagger with a Harvard law degree who thought he was going to buy one of Vermont's senate seats. It's 10 years old, but it says a lot about the state.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_r...rms/197229.stm

Bernie Sanders by the way has been running for office for as long as I can remember. I think he finally got elected because at some point he had achieved name recognition!

Chalk it up to yankee cantankerousness I guess!
post #12 of 15
Vermont may need to read their history a little closer!

Republic of Texas

Republic of California

In fact, Vermont was never officially a republic, but functioned as one for about 14 years, until its request to join the United States was granted.

California and Texas could secede today and have perfectly viable, self-reliant economies, etc. In fact, Texas has a number of "sovereign state" prerogatives, such as no federal land unless the federal government buys it, a big exception to most of the western states. Texas also is not tied into the national power grid, or at least it wasn't until fairly recently. And the Texas National Guard, if it were cut off from the U.S. Army, would be a pretty good Army and Air Force in its own right.

But it's all a moot point, since we fought a war back in 1860-65 to settle this question.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Out of staters don't understand Vermont politics but if you want a good chuckle, read about how an old dairy farmer without a highschool diploma foiled a millionaire out-of-state carpetbagger with a Harvard law degree who thought he was going to buy one of Vermont's senate seats. It's 10 years old, but it says a lot about the state.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_r...rms/197229.stm
Too bad you guys didn't do the same to Bernie Sanders, who is a carpetbagger from New York.
post #14 of 15
South Carolina is trying to secede again.If you see the Palmetto Tree flag with a red background instead of a blue one, they are the ones that want to secede.
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Vermont may need to read their history a little closer!

In fact, Vermont was never officially a republic, but functioned as one for about 14 years, until its request to join the United States was granted.
Oh dear, please don't blame all Vermonters for my mistake, thats what I get for sleeping through all my history classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Too bad you guys didn't do the same to Bernie Sanders, who is a carpetbagger from New York.
Bernie is more of a transplant than a carpetbagger, at least in my book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
But thank you for not mentioning Howard Dean! Ooops!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
But it's all a moot point, since we fought a war back in 1860-65 to settle this question.
Very true!
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