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Capital punishment - Page 2

post #31 of 56
4/18/03 at 9:21am
That was my understanding.
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post #32 of 56
4/18/03 at 9:55am
Jeanie, I believe that every opinion is tempered by basic and fundamental beliefs. Especially in a discussion about capital punishment or abortion, the religious beliefs most definitely sway the opinions on those topics. Besides, we are discussing the pagan religion in the Harry Potter thread so why can't we bring a Christian viewpoint into this one, especially as that is the basis of your opinion?

About depression, I was diagnosed with clinical depression. Like I said, hubby was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, formally called Shell Shock and often found in war veterans (if that tells you how bad his childhood was). I wasn't talking about little bouts of the blues as being mental illness, I'm talking things that are recognized in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders).
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post #33 of 56
4/18/03 at 10:34am
I consider the points I made to be adequate without opening Pandora's box. My religious belief is not the only basis for my argument. In fact I mentioned it only in passing. In fact, it was mentioned in one of the last sentences out of several replies. The body of my argument never mentioned religion. I would reject capital punishment on those concrete points.

Have you ever been in a violent ward? Have you had innumerable shock treatments? Lost a grip on reality? Run the streets naked? That is the kind of mental illness I'm talking about. And yes, I know people who have been that ill. Often they can't even remember what they have done. Those were rhetorical questions, of course, Heidi. I know that depression has hit us both hard at various times, but our problems can't compare to what some people go through.
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post #34 of 56
4/18/03 at 1:02pm
Jeanie, I do know what kind of mental illness you are talking about, and I agreed with you about those situations. The point I was trying to make is that I seriously doubt that 75% of inmates are THAT kind of mentally ill, that severely ill. I think that the data has been presented in a manner that skewed the perspective to the desired result.
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post #35 of 56
4/18/03 at 1:15pm
To those of us who find murder to be heinous, it seems as though anyone who could do such a thing must be mentally ill. I just think there is a lot of evil in the world and has been since Cain killed Abel. If a loved one of mine was murdered, I wouldn't want that killer to have ANY quality of life, in prison or otherwise. If that makes me vindictive, then I guess I am.
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post #36 of 56
4/18/03 at 4:51pm
Welp,

I think that as sson as someone is found guilty, the penalty phase should be dealt out at the same time. If the the penalty is death, right then and there they should be executed, AND im still in favour of public hangings. Take em out back of the courthouse, and hang em. Done deal, no more appeals, no more money spent.. over done with gone.

Okay, perhaps there may be a couple that really didn't do it, but lets face it, if your in that position anyway, you prolly aren't the best citizen in the world.. you know.


The above opinion would in fact work, IF and only IF, we had foolproof methods to ensure we actually HAD the right person in the first place. Oh and lets be real, lots of folks get railroaded, So.. let them have 1 and only 1 appeal within a certain time limit, just to sure... then hang them.
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post #37 of 56
4/18/03 at 5:09pm
It comes down to this for me- I can be on the fence on this issue all I want, but if someone decided to molest or murder one of MY kids, you BET I'd be in favor of capital punishment.

I think its easy to say that its a bad idea, or immoral, etc. when it doesn't hit close to home. No human being that could molest a small child deserves to breathe the same air that you and I do. Do they really deserve to sit in comfort in a nice warm cell, getting three square meals a day when a child is going to be screwed up for life because of what they did?

And thats only ONE of the crimes I believe deserve to get a person fried, or even better- hanged like Ken said. Put me in a room with one of those wastes of human flesh and give me the freedom to do what I see fit. A quick death is too easy.
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post #38 of 56
4/18/03 at 5:40pm
Just saw an interesting news story. A man was convicted of murder and sentenced to death. Obviously it was a pretty horrific crime, Colorado doesn't sentence many people to death. It is now being disputed in the courts because it seems some members of the jury used the Bible as part of their deliberation on the death sentence. Since the Bible isn't actually part of the legal system it is now back in the courts and he has a stay of execution until it is resolved. BTW, the passages they found and used were for justifying capital punishment.
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post #39 of 56
4/18/03 at 6:15pm
Heidi, Those passages were from the old law. The New Testament was a new "agreement" between God and man.

Melissa, I basically said the same thing you said in an earlier post. I said I'd like to kill the person personally, but I'd still be wrong. By the way, I reported a child molester. He committed sucide after I reported him. He had a wife and several children, so it has hit me close to home. He did not die an easy death, and I was indirectly responsible. The only comfort I have is that I did what I had to do. The whole thing was traumatic, and left me horribly shaken for a long time. It's still not easy to think about, even though I would have to the same thing under the same circumstances.

In Ken's fine print he said his plan would work only if the law was foolproof. That won't happen as long as we accept circumstantial evidence.
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post #40 of 56
4/18/03 at 6:30pm
Jeanie- I'm so sorry you had to experience that You did the right thing for the sake of the child involved, though. I'd like to think somebody would have the guts to step forward if they knew that it had happened to one of my kids. I feel sorry for the family this man left behind, but no pity for him whatsoever. I applaud your courage, but am sorry it carried such a price
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post #41 of 56
4/18/03 at 8:22pm
Thread Starter 
The general public has a misconception about circumstantial evidence, thinking that its "not as good". Other than an eyewitness or a corroborated confession, ALL evidence is circumstantial.

Since murders are rarely committed in front of witnesses, one has to look at the available evidence and make some reasonable inferences.

Hypothetical: I am found dead, shot with a .45 automatic. Ballistics show that the bullet came from Bill's gun. Possibility: someone broke in, found the weapon and killed me. There is no sign of forced entry, into the house and my body shows no defensive wounds, indicating that I knew my attacker. Interviews will show that my dogs will attack strangers, unless they are introduced, by Bill or me. There is no sign of blood or torn fabric, on the dogs. Paraffin tests show that Bill has recently fired a gun. My blood on his clothes is discounted, because he claims to have knelt to check for a pulse. A canvass of the neighbors reveals that nobody heard the dogs going ballistic. Another possibility is suicide. Angle of entry and no gunshot residue, on my hand, rules that out.

Every bit of this is circumstantial evidence - doesn't look good for Bill, does it?
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post #42 of 56
4/19/03 at 4:11am
Hey Cindy!

I'm just wondering how you're dead and still posting!!! Are YOU Saddam?????
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post #43 of 56
4/19/03 at 8:15am
I'd hate to be convicted for something that looks suspicious. Many of the people on death row are there because of eye witnesses who identified the wrong person, according to the programs I've seen on T.V. After watching a myriad of murder cases on Court TV, and not seeing ANYONE found not guilty, I believe the police arrest the most likely suspect and the jury goes along with what the law believes, if in doubt. Everything is cleaned up in a hurry that way. Well, I won't change your minds, and noone is going to change mine, so....I hope none of you finds yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time! And I hope noone has ever said, "I'm so mad I could have killed him." Doesn't look good!
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post #44 of 56
4/19/03 at 8:28am
Cindy had a very good point regarding circumstantial evidence. Bundy was a prime example. They did have physical evidence - his teeth imprint on the buttocks of one victim in Florida, and hairs of various victims found in his VW bug. Although witnesses could place someone of his description on the scene of a double abduction, there were no "eyewitnesses" to the murders. What really did him in in the end was his residence in different states where very similar disappearances and murders took place, a map and a brochure, and credit card slips!
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post #45 of 56
4/19/03 at 8:44am
Bundy was a scary man,thank God he is dead!
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post #46 of 56
4/19/03 at 9:17am
My feelings, too. He actually managed to escape from jail twice, too, before heading off to Florida. I read a lot of true crime books, and I really am in favor of the death penalty for serial killers. For others, I just don't know. We've just had a horrendous case over here - the perpetrators (they've confessed) were caught in Switzerland Thursday. A few weeks back, a boy (11) and his sister (9) went out to play. When they didn't come home, the parents called the police, and a huge search was started. The boy was found strangled to death several miles away the next day, and the girl over a week later, much farther away. People had seen a black Fiat in the area, and someone saw the car swerving on a highway, with a child banging away at the window. Turns out two neighbors (the perps lived next door to each other), one in his late twenties, the other in his early thirties, abducted both children, killed the boy, then did whatever they did to the little girl (no details have been released) and killed her. The parents have lost both their kids. And since the death penalty doesn't exist here, they'll probably get life sentences and be out again in 12 - 15 years. Something like "Megan's Law" also doesn't exist here, so these guys will be free to prey on other children.
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post #47 of 56
4/19/03 at 9:28am
Thread Starter 
Jcat, I don't know about European prisons but here people who molest and kill children are at the bottom of the prison hierarchy. Unless they're kept in administrative segregation, they're subject to repeated beatings and rapes, by the other prisoners. Their time time is anything but easy.
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post #48 of 56
4/19/03 at 10:26am
It's the same here - the other prisoners have families, too, so it's understandable. It still gets me that these guys can't be locked up forever or executed, although they committed a double homicide, and the victims were kids. We have a problem here with repeat offenders, and there is no legislation like "Megan's Law" to inform people just who is living in their neighborhood. I know that there is a lot of criticism of the law, e.g. because a 17-year-old who was "caught" sleeping with a 15-year-old is labeled a sex offender, but that's better than not knowing if you have somebody who raped and murdered a couple of little kids living two doors down from you.
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post #49 of 56
4/19/03 at 11:27am
Jeanie, I have much more faith in the system than that. No, they don't show many cases on Court TV that end in a mistrial, a hung jury, or not guilty. They choose the cases to show very carefully. Does that mean no one is let off in the court system? Does Jerry Springer represent all of America? No, just a slice of life he chooses to show. Same with Court TV.

Circumstantial evidence isn't always a bad thing. The bodies they found in Jeffrey Dahmer's freezer and under John Wayne Gacy's house were also circumstantial evidence. No one SAW them put the bodies there. No one SAW them commit the crime. Not all circumstantial evidence is just a suspicion or trumped up by the police.
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post #50 of 56
4/19/03 at 12:55pm
At my school we receive flyers from the sheriff's department about the sexual predators who live within the school's boundaries. We keep them in a book on the counter in the front office. Last year, a boyfriend of one family's mom was quite angry and indignant that his flyer (picture and all) was in there and kept on the counter. This guy had multiple convictions of being a sexual predator against children (as well as drug convictions), and he's pissed off?!?!?!? The mom was all in his defense too, saying that we (the school personnel) were out the "get her".
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post #51 of 56
4/19/03 at 5:09pm
i don't really think that death penalty is that much of a deterrent. i think that they should do away with the death penalty and put those people on death row to good use. instead of testing products on animals, how about making these death row inmates contribute to society. if you want to see what happens when you put a certain product in an eye, use the death row inmates for that purpose, instead of using animals! just do away with animal testing and use the murderers etc for the testing. make them contribute to society while they are waiting to die!
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post #52 of 56
5/3/03 at 10:07pm
I'm growing very weary of prisoner's rights. For some of these guys getting put in jail for a short term is like going to a bad guys social club!! They have tvs, computers, basketball courts, weight lifting rooms, stores and free room and board. Why should we pay for all of that? And how much do we spend on prisoners who are given life sentences when they are in their 20's and die of old age in prison. I don't like the idea of capital punishment but I don't like the idea of them languishing in jail either. Maybe we should go back to the good old chain gangs again.......or some other kind of hard labor that beneiftis society. What do you think?
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post #53 of 56
5/4/03 at 5:39am
Prisonors shouldn't have rights. Specially not the ones destined to death row. Just shoot em for the price of a bullet, have the other prisoners dig them a grave... out there... somewhere... and dump the dead guy in, end of story.

I feel people in prison, who have done certain crimes should be tortured as well. Or at least the ones who have admitted to the crime.

The only thing good I have seen them do with peoples jail time lately, is pulling those dog from kill shelters, training them and then rehoming them (the prisoners that is.)
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post #54 of 56
5/4/03 at 5:42am
Amen to that! Whatever happened to convicted criminals giving up their civil rights? Talk about capital punishment not being a deterrent......neither is prison! Punishment is supposed to be unpleasant, and prison is supposed to be punishment!
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post #55 of 56
5/4/03 at 10:27am
The other thing about about jail is that many of the prisoners who are released learn how to perfect their crime. It's like a University for Criminals. Anyone seen the movie Blow? Where Johnny Depp's character actually teaches a class about how to smuggle drugs (it was supposed to be History)? That's not too far off the mark. Death penalty aside, we are creating better and smarter criminals by putting them in prison.
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post #56 of 56
5/4/03 at 10:50am
I haven't read any statistics on this, but I would personally think that most people who are released from jail WILL and DO commit crimes again. I've known serval people whom have been in jail and/or juvy, and they do NOT stop.

It needs to be a bit more middle ages feeling with the jail department I think. Theives/Robbers should get a hand cut off... etc.
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