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Wake up call or too harmful to self-esteem? - Page 2

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuja View Post
Just because a horny teenager is advertising that they are looking for someone to have sex with doesn't mean that they lose the ability to say "yes" or "no" to sex. I'm sure the response is "but it's a reality; being slutty attracts pedophiles". That's simply not true. Being young and innocent looking attracts pedophiles. Being slutty and looking sexually mature attracts people who like to have sex with adults. Being in vulnerable situation (not capable of defending yourself, going to a stranger's house just for sex, drinking heavily in social situations) makes a person at risk for having their choices ignored. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about power. People are vulnerable not because they are interested in sex but because they haven't learned to protect themselves. It does not make high school students any safer to have a cop humiliate them for having a "slutty" MySpace profile. It would make high school students safer to teach them how to protect their identities online.

My problem is not with a cop singling out a student and calling their cell-phone during an assembly. That seems like it could be quite effective. My problem is with telling girls that if they are slutty then they deserve to be raped!
Where in the article did it say only "pedophiles"? It says "sexual predators". And if girls are trying to look older than 18 and dressing provocatively then that is a danger to them. And, I NEVER said anyone deserves to be raped based on how they're dressed. You are absolutely right, rape is based on power, not on sex. However, some people will think an advertisement for sex is an invitation and things can get out of hand.

You said "Being in vulnerable situation (not capable of defending yourself, going to a stranger's house just for sex, drinking heavily in social situations) makes a person at risk for having their choices ignored." What do you think happens online? Someone adds a friend to their MySpace, gets a few messages and is invited to a party. She doesn't really know the person, but is up for a party. She may be a very good girl, but they give her alcohol, and lord knows what else, and the next morning she wakes up in an alley not able to remember what happened. Better for someone to know to NOT put themselves in that situation.

I agree, teaching someone how to defend themselves is a must. BUT, that doesn't always work in every situation. I think the cop was trying to explain the dangers of sharing too much of yourself online to avoid this in the first place.
post #32 of 42
I watched the news last night that had a segment on employers checking out applicant FaceBook pages during the hiring process. When the reporter ask young people if the knew employers were doing this they looked shocked and said no. And that they did not want employers seeing thier facebook pages or contacting any of their friends. Now this has been widely reported that employers were doing this and that what you put on the internet is fair game for everyone to see. Young people have always thought that bad things happen to someone else because to a large extent and rightly so they are protected from the uglier aspects of life. They just seem so clueless but looking back I was the same way at that age. In my day though, when we did stuff, we did not flaunt it for the world to see, we tried to keep on the down low. When I got caught during my wild phase I was set up as some pretty humiliating examples until I learned not to do stupid things. I am happy to say it did not hurt me in the long run and actually taught me a few lessons eventually. But my lessons weren't on YouTube for that I am grateful.

Do I have a problem with the way this was handled? Not really. I feel sorry for the girl but what is on the internet is fair game. Not just for predators but perspective employers and who know what or who else. And maybe, just maybe, it will prevent someone putting the wrong thing out there on the internet for the whole world to see.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I've experienced firsthand some of the worst the police might see happen to kids, and I still think this was too harsh. Scare tactics only work temporarily, and making a bunch of kids hate you for being mean makes them not listen to a dang thing you say.
So I would take that to mean you are a police officer or involved with the law or a coroner since otherwise I don't think anyone else would actually be allowed to see some of the end results of some of the horrific crimes that happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I still stand by the officer and I think how he handled it was absolutely fine. The "shock factor" is a part of life. So what if she left crying. The only way young people today will realize what can happen to them is either shocking them this way, or let them find out by themselves. Which is the lesser evil?
I agree 100%. I would rather my daughter come home from the presentation with some tears and embarrassment rather than never having her come home again at all. And I do still believe that unless today's kids are given a bit of shock tactics they tend to disregard what is said. Yes, yes, there are still some wonderful, obedient children out there but even though the dangers of putting so much personal information online is repeated to them mega-times, they still go ahead and do it so IMO they need to be shocked into listening. And I'll bet you any amount of money that every one of those kids in that presentation remembers what was said! Point made!
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
So I would take that to mean you are a police officer or involved with the law or a coroner since otherwise I don't think anyone else would actually be allowed to see some of the end results of some of the horrific crimes that happen
Actually, I was referring to the things the cop is trying to prevent. The things that cops only see the end result of but don't actually experience. Sarcasm is always helpful though.

My point was that thinking the cop was being ridiculous was not because I didn't understand what he was trying to protect them from. But I'm done with this thread now, thanks.
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Actually, I was referring to the things the cop is trying to prevent. The things that cops only see the end result of but don't actually experience. Sarcasm is always helpful though.

My point was that thinking the cop was being ridiculous was not because I didn't understand what he was trying to protect them from. But I'm done with this thread now, thanks.
It was in no way meant to be sarcastic - unfortunate that you interpreted it as such. I was merely pointing out that unless one is a police officer or coroner it is very, very, very unlikely they will ever see some of the gore and horror those people see which impacts their feelings and reactions to a much greater degree than those of us who are protected from having to face all that nasty stuff. I have friends who are police officers and I know why they react so strongly to some things - they've seen things that would make the rest of us toss our cookies and have nightmares for a long time.

If what that officer did prevents just one young man or woman from being hurt by a predator then that's a wonderful thing IMO. It's better to be embarrassed than dead.
post #36 of 42
Wow this is an interesting one. I have actually considered removing my MySpace page completely. I just feel like the "long lost friends" that I want to keep in touch with have my email address or phone number already. I don't have kids yet but I will be closely monitoring their internet activity and whatever other technology is around in 15 years.

I think the officer was too harsh. I don't think he needed to single out a girl and tell her that a prisoner said he would masturbate to her pictures. I think that was an unnecessary and cruel tactic. I think the officer could have used examples of actual cases where a predator found someone on MySpace and targeted them or attacked them, etc.

It's a touchy subject. I'm sure the girl is humiliated, as I would be too. I just feel that while the officer had good intentions, he went a little far.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Where in the article did it say only "pedophiles"? It says "sexual predators". And if girls are trying to look older than 18 and dressing provocatively then that is a danger to them. And, I NEVER said anyone deserves to be raped based on how they're dressed. You are absolutely right, rape is based on power, not on sex. However, some people will think an advertisement for sex is an invitation and things can get out of hand.

You said "Being in vulnerable situation (not capable of defending yourself, going to a stranger's house just for sex, drinking heavily in social situations) makes a person at risk for having their choices ignored." What do you think happens online? Someone adds a friend to their MySpace, gets a few messages and is invited to a party. She doesn't really know the person, but is up for a party. She may be a very good girl, but they give her alcohol, and lord knows what else, and the next morning she wakes up in an alley not able to remember what happened. Better for someone to know to NOT put themselves in that situation.

I agree, teaching someone how to defend themselves is a must. BUT, that doesn't always work in every situation. I think the cop was trying to explain the dangers of sharing too much of yourself online to avoid this in the first place.
At least one poster here was using the word "pedophile". I agree everything you said in the above post, except that "girls are trying to look older than 18 and dressing provocatively then that is a danger to them." I don't think it's a danger to them except as far as the culture SAYS it's a danger to them.

Let's put it this way. There weren't just possible future victims in that assembly; there were also possible future victimizers. It is true, the cop did not say "sluts deserve to be raped" and no-one on this board said that either. However, a possible future victimizer in that assembly could learn that "good girls" shouldn't have revealing pictures of them on MySpace. It's a short jump from "that's a slutty picture of you" to "you're a slut" to "you've already said yes by having that MySpace profile."

We all need to be extremely careful to try to build a culture that insists that sex must be assented to, clearly and unambiguously, by both adults in order for it to be okay. Calling people and pictures of people "slutty" and spreading the idea that sexual predators think victims have already assented simply increases the cultural expectation that sluts have already said yes.

People in positions of power teaching adolescents need to be even more careful to avoid spreading cultural expectations that lead to rape.
post #38 of 42
If the girls had their profile set to public and there were risque photos of them, they should be warned of the potential consequences. I imagine most of them had already been warned of these dangers at one time or another, but it didn't faze them. It probably wouldn't faze me either at that age. This speaker made an impact. Sure he was harsh. Sure I feel sorry for the girl he singled out, but he made the impact he set out to make. Maybe he saved someone's life.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuja View Post
At least one poster here was using the word "pedophile". I agree everything you said in the above post, except that "girls are trying to look older than 18 and dressing provocatively then that is a danger to them." I don't think it's a danger to them except as far as the culture SAYS it's a danger to them.

Let's put it this way. There weren't just possible future victims in that assembly; there were also possible future victimizers. It is true, the cop did not say "sluts deserve to be raped" and no-one on this board said that either. However, a possible future victimizer in that assembly could learn that "good girls" shouldn't have revealing pictures of them on MySpace. It's a short jump from "that's a slutty picture of you" to "you're a slut" to "you've already said yes by having that MySpace profile."

We all need to be extremely careful to try to build a culture that insists that sex must be assented to, clearly and unambiguously, by both adults in order for it to be okay. Calling people and pictures of people "slutty" and spreading the idea that sexual predators think victims have already assented simply increases the cultural expectation that sluts have already said yes.

People in positions of power teaching adolescents need to be even more careful to avoid spreading cultural expectations that lead to rape.
I agree, it would be wonderful to have a culture where sex is agreed to all the time. But, that is a dream world. I don't see how it could happen because there are always going to be sick people out there. Do you really think that if a future predator was on MySpace and saw a provactive picture of someone they went to school with wouldn't already go through the same thought process you just did? He didn't need the cop's suggestion to come to that conclusion on his own. So, he calls the girl up, goes out on a date because he already thinks she's a slut and expects something from her. That's not a new concept that was just introduced by the cop....I'm sure the guys have already thought it. Are they asking to be raped? No, definitely not. Are they advertising their body if they put provactive pics out there? Yes. They are advertising for sex. And, forget actual "predators", think about teenage boys with a hormone level that is unreal. That is how date rape happens. Is it right? NO! Does it happen because the guy figures she's done it before and it's no big deal? Yes.

Basically, young people need to know the possible results of their actions. And they need to have enough respect for themselves to not advertise for sex. And, yes I DO think an underage teenager trying to make themselves look like 18 IS a danger to themselves and to others. Because, at 18 they are legal so there are more people interested.

Case in point. A relative of ours went to jail for statutory rape. He met a girl online. I actually saw a picture of her and I would have thought she was 20. He met her and had sex. A few weeks later, when he decided the relationship wouldn't work he broke it off. And the cops came knocking at the door because she was only 16. She TOLD him she was 19 BEFORE they met in person. The courts didn't want to hear it and he spent time. Now, I know not everyone that tries to look older lies about their age, but mistakes can happen. He is now considered a child molester and has to register every year. BTW, according to the cops (off the record) she has done this to other guys and yelled rape after the guys broke up with her, but that couldn't be brought up in court because she was "under age".
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Case in point. A relative of ours went to jail for statutory rape. He met a girl online. I actually saw a picture of her and I would have thought she was 20. He met her and had sex. A few weeks later, when he decided the relationship wouldn't work he broke it off. And the cops came knocking at the door because she was only 16. She TOLD him she was 19 BEFORE they met in person. The courts didn't want to hear it and he spent time. Now, I know not everyone that tries to look older lies about their age, but mistakes can happen. He is now considered a child molester and has to register every year. BTW, according to the cops (off the record) she has done this to other guys and yelled rape after the guys broke up with her, but that couldn't be brought up in court because she was "under age".
Just last year, that happened to one of our clients - the girl's ex was also in jail for statutory rape,too, and she'd just had an abortion from being pg. from a 3rd guy. When her BF found out about the 3rd party, he broke up with her & she called the cops. Her grandmother wouldn't let her keep the baby because the 3rd guy is Central American --yes. all the guys should be in trouble, but what happened to juvenile deliquency including out-of-control teen girls Yet another reason to say "no" to premarital sex, I guess
post #41 of 42
Kids (and teenagers in high school are kids) don't learn well from the tactics the cop used. Not only was he out of line in singling out individuals who were in the crowd (someone called it bad management and it certainly was that) but he proved that he doesn't understand teenager and what it takes to get through to them. All he taught them was to fear embarrassment from someone who's supposed to protect them from pedophiles and rapists.

What happens if one of these girls actually is raped? Do you think she'll be more or less likely to inform a police officer after this experience? I'd suspect less. Rape victims rarely report crimes because of the fear of being judged. The cop proved that they will be. Furthermore, whether it was true or not, he set up in their minds the idea that the supposed good guys are aiding rapists by showing them which girls to target when he claimed to have sent her picture off to a prisoner.

If he worked for me he'd be beyond fired. Worse than that, if he lead a girl to not reporting a rape, he's let a rapist go another day. Maybe it takes two rapes before it's reported, or more.
post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by howtoholdacat View Post
Rape victims rarely report crimes because of the fear of being judged. The cop proved that they will be.
Excellent point.
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