I caused family drama last night. (Very loooonnnggg)

baloneysmom

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I guess I really just need support and an ear to listen to me. I spent most of my night crying. I have to give my boyfriend credit… I am not a crier and this is the first time he had to deal with this sort of thing and he did so great and was so supportive.

I am very lucky and have great parents. A long while back they got separated, my father bought a house and gave my mother our house. After 7 years they got back together but still lived separately (but slept together every night at my moms house) anyway long story short, they got back together and after another 6 years of being back together they have decided to move in together and be so generous as to give my sister and I my Mothers house just to get us on our feet.

Anyway, that’s not what I am complaining about lol. That’s just a background. My sister is very spoiled and loud, she usually (even now at 35 years) has tantrums when things don’t go her way and she can get very verbally aggressive. I on the other hand am quiet and respect that I need to live my own life without my parents help, I have a lot of pride and never ask for anything. We both grew up very differently.

So, about the house, first off, I was never given the opportunity to own this house, my sister must have demanded it so it was automatically hers and she would pay me half the price (Keep in mind this is a rare house to get, middle of everything in Toronto, big lot, very hard find, newly renovated). So being that she needs to pay me I was under the impression that the house would be half mine until she paid up… Well obviously not. (She will pay me in 1-2 years after she is done her schooling, she went back to school for her university degree)

I love books, I have a huge collection at home that includes rare book, signed books, banned books, books with printed out correspondence with the authors in the pages. It’s the only thing I really ever collected and took care of. My boyfriend knows how much I love books so he has been ordering me some of the rare books I want and it got me thinking I want my collection back.

I called my mom last night to tell her when she comes to visit me on Thursday to please bring the books and she told me she threw it out… she threw it out?? What?? My book collection that’s probably worth $1000? Are you for real? Why? She said my sister wanted a clean house to move into since it would be her house now and she’s moving in at the end of the month… I asked what else they threw out… and let me tell you… it was a lot… I moved 18 hours away and all I packed was what I could fit in my car… they threw out my whole childhood and my cherished book collection.

Of course I kept asking why, my mom got upset and put my dad on the phone. He started making fun of me, and mocking that I was upset so I hung up. My mom called me back and I heard my sister in the background calling me selfish, and it was my fault for not bringing it etc. I also heard my dad yelling how rude I was for hanging up.

My mom started crying saying my sister wanted a clean house, but no one helped her (they made my mom do everything) so she felt rushed and threw everything away. Then I got mad and said something along the lines of “Wow, must be nice to be her, get a brand new house for half price and a maid to go with it”
Now no one is talking to me.

I feel so sad. I feel like its so unfair that I lost all my childhood items, along with my book collection that I spent so much time and money on… and I also feel bad because I made my mother cry… but its not my fault… I’m just so lost, I just feel like crying. I feel like I should apologize…but for what? For being upset they threw out my stuff…

Anyway now I’m depressed because I made you guys read all of this. Haha sorry about that, I guess I just needed to vent. And if you are still reading this. Thanks =) that’s seriously nice of you.
 

wesley's mom

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Aww. I am so sorry about your situation. Sounds like a tough one.
Hey, we are here to listen so you can vent all you want! I'm glad to hear you have a sweet boyfriend to help you. Hang in there. I hope nothing but the best for you.
 

tab

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aww, that sounds really tough.
families can be the hardest things to cope with at times. i'm sorry that you're having to go through this but it's great to hear that when things get tough, your boyfriend was there for you.
 

whisky'sdad

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I don't think you have anything to apologize for...if my family threw out my collections and childhood memories, I would never speak to them again!

So sorry you are going through this. Your boyfriend is there for you, i see.
 
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baloneysmom

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Originally Posted by Whisky'sDad

I don't think you have anything to apologize for...if my family threw out my collections and childhood memories, I would never speak to them again!
Well thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s the thing… they are family. My family is really close and we are extremely loyal to one another… BUT we butt heads a lot.

I just spoke to my Mom to apologize and we ended up getting into a fight. I told her that since my Dad said everything would be 100% fair for this gift that I was under the assumption that the house would be 50% mine until I got my share paid. She asked me why would I think that?… I said well why would you tell me that everything was 100% fair if my sister gets her gift and can start her life 2 years before mine. I had plans for that money. She argued with me, didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t see my point and we argued for about 15 min before I lied and said I had to go to a meeting.

I am going to sit down with my boyfriend tonight and see what he has to say. I am deciding on whether or not to take my half of the gift and give it to my mother. She kept holding it over my head saying at least I got a house… but Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not doing so badly in life and I would rather have my childhood memories and irreplaceable things then money. I was going to buy a house and start a business with that money but is it worth it to dislike my family over? To have these fights? To lose my things over? I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think so. I will have to think about it tonight… but I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think I will accept this money.

They are supposed to come over on Thursday, but I am thinking of telling them to hold off… Its just such a bad situation. Its family… its not like I can just hate them for being unfair and never talk to them again… but I can make it right, and take a stand and not be a slave for money like my sister.
 

carolpetunia

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You did not "cause a family drama" -- they did. I cannot believe the utter disregard with which they've treated you and your belongings. I'm just stunned that anyone would do such a thing and not at least call and ask you what you wanted done with your books, give you a chance to have them ship everything to you, something!

Taken together with the fact that they think it's okay to give your sister a house, yet fail to so much as rent a storage unit on your behalf... there's something profoundly wrong here.

Having said that, though... they are family, and family is about forgiveness. You can't disown them. But they should be made to see the situation from your point of view! I would encourage you to write a clear, concise, non-emotional letter explaining your viewpoint, and send copies to all three of them.

And then go on about life as usual. Maybe they'll see the error of their ways, maybe they'll apologize, maybe they'll even decide to change the arrangement... maybe not. At least you will have said your piece.

I'm so sorry for their blindness, hon.
 

goldenkitty45

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That's horrible. But you left the abuse from your father and sister. Sounds like things haven't changed very much with either of them. I'm not your mom, but IMO she is not wise to go back to an abuser.

You cannot do anything about the books now. But you can move on and break ties with your sister and father. I'm sure your mother will need you again if she is going back to the abuse.

My concern is your share of the house. Is this all in writing that your sister will be paying you 1/2 the worth? If not, you need to speak to a lawyer and have it documented and signed by your parents, sister and you. If its more/less verbal, I doubt you will see the money of the house.
 

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So...am I misunderstanding this or what? Are you saying they're giving your sister this house, or are they giving it to the both of you? Or are they giving the house to the both of you, and your sister will live there, and pay you rent until your half of the house is paid for? I'm kind of confused on that.

As far as them tossing your belongings, I think it was wrong of them. However, I have a feeling your sister was probably pressuring your mother to get all of the stuff out of there, so she could start fresh, and your mother felt pressured to do something with your belongings. I don't think it was right AT ALL for tossing your things, though, and THAT I would expect some compensation for, not that money will ever be able to bring back your special books, or any other sentimental belonging they tossed. I'm just thinking that the way you described your sister, it sounds like she put a great deal of pressure on your mother, and she just didn't know what else to do, or maybe she just was in a panic and tried to do what seemed easiest to her, to stop your sister from giving her a hard time. Personally, I would place the blame on your sister. However, there is NO WAY I would just let it slide. They ALL owe you an apology, as far as I'm concerned, and they need to try and replace as many of those books that is possible for them to do.

They have NO RIGHT to be angry at you.
 

katiemae1277

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wow, what an awful situation, and I have to say I would have reacted the exact same way as you did. I would have been beyond livid if someone, especially a close family member, threw out my things without at least asking. I had an almost similar situation where I had a rather large collection of classic literature and when I moved back home with my parents the cat I had at the time sprayed on my books, i was devasted
so I know how you're feeling
 
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baloneysmom

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No no, there is no abuse… well, not really. My parents have such an odd relationship. My father gives my mother EVERYTHING, heâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just not very emotional I guess. I also know I would get my half of the money. If I didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t though I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t really believe in taking family to court for things, I would just let it go.

My father is a great man. But he is also harsh. He does a lot of charity work, he donates lots of money a year to women programs, as well as children hospitals, he has donated a house to be used as an abused womanâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s shelter that allows pets (we had a big thing where women were taking abuse because they didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want to leave their animals and shelters wouldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t allow them). He buys 100 circus tickets every year for needy children because someone did that for him when he was a poor child. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve seen him give his shoes and jacket on multiple occasions to homeless people in the winter. I can go on for pages and pages on how great my father is. BUT his big fault is he is harsh and isnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t very attentive to others emotions. Especially if he thinks they are being dramatic, which is anytime people are upset.

The money is nothing. I mean yes, its nice lol. What I am really mad about is the whole principle of the thing. They said 50/50… so why then is my stuff being thrown out if I own 50% of the house? Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve lived my whole life in my sisters shadow, and I told my Mom this when she called and asked why this is such a big deal to me. I told her Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m tired of having to be put on the back burner because of my sisters tantrums. She asked then why am I having a tantrum, I said well its about time! Maybe I should always have tantrums and then ill get everything I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t deserve too!

Its just so tiring and stupid. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not sure what to do… its so hard.
 
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baloneysmom

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Originally Posted by HopeHacker

So...am I misunderstanding this or what? Are you saying they're giving your sister this house, or are they giving it to the both of you? Or are they giving the house to the both of you, and your sister will live there, and pay you rent until your half of the house is paid for? I'm kind of confused on that.
I was under the impression that the house was being given to us. My Father said that the house would go to us and be 50/50. What he failed to mention is that i had absolutely no option of even living in my 50% because my sister did not want me. My sister is supposed to pay me in full my half of the house when she is done school and gets a mortgage.

So since he said the house was BOTH of ours i just assumed i would have 50% of it until she paid me.

As for my sister pressuring... you hit it on the nail. Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s what i told my mother today. She said i should not have left my stuff in the house if i didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want it thrown out. I came back at her and said that most normal people donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t expect to have their stuff thrown out of their own home because there sister has a tantrum and decided to use my mother as a slave.

This is such a stupid situation... i wish my sister wasnt so spoiled.
 

natalie_ca

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Originally Posted by silvionc

I was under the impression that the house was being given to us. My Father said that the house would go to us and be 50/50. What he failed to mention is that i had absolutely no option of even living in my 50% because my sister did not want me. My sister is supposed to pay me in full my half of the house when she is done school and gets a mortgage.
I would insist on your 1/2 being the fair market value of the house at the time she is paying you, not the agreed upon amount from "today", or the lower value that your parents gifted it at.

Otherwise after she pays you she could go out and sell it for 10's if not hundreds of thousands more than what she based your 1/2 on. By the sounds of it, and given the housing market in Toronto, that house sounds like it's worth at least a couple hundred thousand, probably double that.

If the house has a value of $300,000 on the housing market, and your parents decided to gift the house at a much lower amount, say $50,000.00, your half should be based on the fair market value of the house being $300,000, not $50,000 which was the selling price. Because if your sister were to turn around and sell it, she would be selling it for the fair market value based on the housing market IE: $300,000.00. Therefore division of the equity should be based on the actual value of the house, not the price tag of the house that your parents set it to be.

And you need to get it in writing too. Never trust transactions like this to verbal agreements. In 2 years time she may be of a different mind and your parents may also have conveniently forgotten what the agreement was.

Your name really should be on the title of the house since the house is technically yours. You don't have to be living in the house to have your name on the title. Once your sister pays you your 1/2 of the house, then the title could be transferred to her name only. But in the meantime that house is 50% yours and you should have the right to have your name on the investment.
 
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baloneysmom

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I am not quite sure how much money I will be paid. My father is however, being fair in that aspect. When it is time for my sister to pay up they will get the house appraised and I will be paid half of whatever the market value is at the time.

There wonâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t be any written agreements. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s family. I trust they will be fair in the end. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just getting there. I should have known my sister would have done this. My Mother is very easily used since sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s so soft and always wants to please. In the end I WILL get my half. My family is extremely trustworthy in that sense. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just getting there that is a pain… I just wish they had told me before hand that she was rushing my mom. I would have made the trip down and got my stuff.

I guess there really is nothing to do. My Father wants an apology, thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s what my mom said. I said sarcastically, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sorry my crying got in the way of him making fun of me. She just sighed. I feel sorry for her but I feel horrible all this happened to me.

Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just so stupid and petty. As I said its not the money. The money is nice but if it means fighting with my family its not worth it. Its just a principle thing. Its even worse that they are mad at me and blaming me which I know is also my sister. Whenever I feel something has been done wrong to me she always loudly and dramatically goes off about what a B-word I am and brainwashes them. Just so stupid.
 

natalie_ca

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In 2 years time, where is your sister going to be getting the money to give you your 50% of the house?

Are they are selling the house to the 2 of you at a reduced price? Or is it being given to you and she will be getting a mortgage to buy your 1/2?

When a bank gives out a mortgage they look at a combination of debt and income.

Let's say for example that the house is valued at $400,000.00 in 2 years. And I'm going to assume that the house was GIVEN away and not sold to your sister. And I'm going to assume that when she gets a mortgage it will be for 50% of the value of the house so she can pay you. Based on that let's look at the figures:

Mortgage $200,000.00 (1/2 the value of the house)
Amortization period: 25 years
Monthly payments
Interest: 8%

Based on those numbers:

Monthly Mortgage Payment: $1,526.43
Total Payments: $457,926.00
Total Interest: $257,926.00

The amount a bank will give for a mortgage depends on a number of factors. The most important are your gross household income, your down payment and the mortgage interest rate. Banks will also consider your assets and liabilities. Your own lifestyle and debt comfort zone also come into play.

The first rule is that your monthly housing costs should not exceed 32% of your gross monthly household income. Housing costs include monthly mortgage payments, taxes, heating, gas, and water expenses.

Secondly, your entire monthly debt load should not be any more than 40% of your gross monthly income. This includes housing costs, and other debts such as car payments, personal loans, credit card payments and student loans.

Without actual numbers, lets assume that the taxes and utilities come to $500.00 per month, which it easily will. It will likely be more. Between mortgage and utilities and taxes, the monthly figure just for the house expenses are $2,026.43.

The income she would have to have each month to afford to pay that amount based on the 32% calculation that banks use, is $6,500.00.

As I said above, the bank will factor in that your entire monthly debt load should not be any more than 40% of your gross monthly income. Forty percent of $6,500.00 is $2,600.00.

$2,600.00 (40% of monthly income)
$2,026.43 (monthly household expenses for mortgage, taxes and utilities)
$ 573.57 (balance of allowable income for debt payments)

That leaves her with $573.57 for a car payment, credit cards, and student loans. Is that even possible for her to manage?

My concern is that as a single person with a single income, that she won't qualify for a mortgage of the size that she will need to pay you your 1/2 of the house. Most people fresh out of school don't make $6,500.00 per month at the start, if they ever do. And the numbers I threw out for house value and taxes/utilities were purely guesses. The 8% interest rate however is real and what the going rate for a mortgage at a Canadian bank is today.
 
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baloneysmom

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My sister actually does quite well. She was making 75k a year and only went to university because she was offered a bigger job but didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have a university education (only college) so I assume she would be making a lot more after school. She also lives with her fiancÃ[emoji]169[/emoji]e who will be paying half of everything.

I am not too concerned about that though. As far as I know she is being offered a mortgage with no interest. Money is not the issue here. I am not worried about anything that has to do with money. If my father said I would get half of the house (which I know approximately what its worth) then I will get it. My father said if there is a problem he will give me the money and work it out with my sister. Money is absolutly not an issue here.

Im just concerned about all this fighting. I feel so drained. I mentioned to my boyfriend I should just give my half to my Mom and he said fine, BUT then my dad would just give it to my sister and she would get a really awesome free house… Im just so stressed, I hate fighting with them. They are so far and I went from seeing them everyday to seeing them only a few times a year. Even less since I spent all my visiting money on Bugsys vet bills and as I said before I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t ask my parents for money even though they have it because I was raised better and have some fierce pride in me. So fighting with them is even harder, because it feels like I never see them.

As much as we butt heads and fight I love them all to death. We are extreamly close. Its just hard to fight.
 

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If your goal is to keep the peace, then I would suggest you go and apologize whether you feel you should or not. It doesn't sound like an apology will be coming your way anytime soon, so be the bigger person and push it all aside and go and tell them you are "sorry", and leave it at that.
 

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I'm also a bit confused - your location says New Brunswick and you say the house is in Toronto - that's a fair distance between the two. A small duplex on a postage stamp sized lot in Toronto, as we speak, is going for over $450,000 so I hope you do get your half. It's unfortunate that you will have to wait for your sister to finish school and give it to you. If you are living in NB, I doubt you would be interested in living there anyway.

As for your memorabilia, I don't think they had the right to throw it away without consulting you. That's just not right IMO.

It sounds as though you have always been the one to give in to keep the peace - how unfair to you.
 

natalie_ca

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Originally Posted by Yosemite

I'm also a bit confused - your location says New Brunswick and you say the house is in Toronto - that's a fair distance between the two. A small duplex on a postage stamp sized lot in Toronto, as we speak, is going for over $450,000 so I hope you do get your half.
She said she lives 18 hours from Toronto now.

And I'm also concerned about her getting her 50% too. I know housing prices are outrageous in Toronto. In 2 years that house will have gone up in value, making the chance of her sister getting a mortgage on a single income even slimmer.

If she is living with her fiance and eh will be helping her with the payments, his name will have to be on the title of the house for the bank to consider his income for the mortgage calculation. Is her sister willing to have his name on the title if they are not married? That automatically gives him 50% ownership of the house after she's already paid out 50% to her sister.
 

goldenkitty45

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Its your decision but do NOT trust verbal agreements with family! I'm serious. If the house is worth a lot you want that in WRITING.

And there is such a thing as verbal abuse. Laughing at someone and verbally yelling at them over and over IS abuse. That is what your father/sister are doing. If they are putting you down and making light of all this -its abuse. I may be mixing you up with another person, but the situation was involving verbal/emtional abuse.
 
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