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Questions about wet, grain free food for kitten :)

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone!

Even though this is my first post I have been lurking forever and have learned so much! I now finally have a question!

I am a huge fan of Dr. Lisa Pierson (catinfo.org) and her work has really confirmed my desire to feed only grain free and wet food. We have always fed our pets super high quality, human grade food. However, I have a couple of questions.

***Our Pet Background info: We have a male Great Dane/Lab mix that is 105# (all muscle!) and is currently fed Wellness Core, 4 cups/day. He is very healthy but has extensive allergies which are controlled by injections of antigen every 3 weeks. We also have a 14 week male kitten currently fed Wellness Core and Wellness Kitten canned. We are trying hard to switch to all canned in light of recent research. We also have 8 bantam chickens (which are not relevant in this conversation, but I had to include them!) that are fed an organic feed (and tons of kitchen/garden trimmings) and free range all day.

1. Can this info about feeding canned food instead of dry be extrapolated to canines as well? Even though we are feeding a very high quality, grain free dry food, is our dog in need of substantially more fluid?

2. I really hate canned food. Really. I hate how it smells. I *HATE* HOW IT SMELLS! It smells up my whole house, even if I only leave it out for an hour. I hate that I have to take the cans out to the trash can outside instead of throwing it in the kitchen trash because it smells. HOWEVER, if that is what I have to do to make our animals as healthy as possible, I will deal with it. But, I am wondering if feeding the Core dry food mixed with water (at a 1:3 ratio- which yields a 75-85% water volume) is close to the canned food. I realize your point about bacterial/fungal growth, which I believe is valid. As it is, I can only stand the canned down for 1 hour due to the odor (I am a stay at home mom and smell it all day long!), so if I mixed up the Core with water and set it down for 1 hour only, is this equal to canned????



Thanks so much for your thoughts on this......so many of you have so much great experience and info and I appreciate you sharing your opinions!
post #2 of 13
Hi
Dr Lisa came to a feline diabetes board that I have been posting on a few years ago and preaches her stuff there as well. If she was tough about nutrtion before, after seeing the affects that the switch to canned foods make with diabetic cats, she take no prisioners now! She is one of the good guys um girls
There are a few differences with dogs and cats. dogs are omnivores with cats being obligate carnivores. I think one of the main differences though as far as your question goes is that dogs are drinkers where as catsas lisa says, are not and get most of their moisture needs from their prey.
I have no expertise on dogs but i do believe that canned is healthier for them the dry.
I have no clue whether grains should or should not be included with the food
Very best to you and your crew
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
FYI- As I reread my post, I just wanted to clarify that the #2 question about hating canned food and wanting to know if we could do water with Core, was about the kitten, not the dog! Thanks!
post #4 of 13
DO NOT put water on dry food .... It will cause a bacteria bloom way faster than canned food

yes some on here will suggest something even when it is NOT desired

YES I also agree wet food is overall MORE LIKELY to make for a healthier cat ....
post #5 of 13
Is it all canned food that bothers you or only certain flavors? Maybe you could train your cats to like the ones that don't stink as bad.

You should not be leaving the wet food out for more than an hour in any case. Some people will tell you no more than 20 minutes. I always rinse the cans with hot water and put them in the recycling. I also run extra hot water down the sink to make sure I get rid of the smell.

I've never added water to the dry food, but I would think the same time limit should apply.

If you want to do free feeding, stick with the dry food and work on finding other ways to get enough water in to the cats.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Sharky, I am aware of the bacterial/fungal bloom that can occur, but is that not safe even for an hour down (this is as long as I can stand to have wet food down as well, due to smell, but the Core+water is MUCH easier and better for me--I just want to make sure it is OK for him as well!)?

Also, since I love your posts and totally respect your approach, is there a significant nutritional difference between water+grain free/high protein Core food and canned grain free Wellness? Most of the opinions/research I have seen seems to focus on high carb/grain content and low moisture as being the huge negative things about dry food. With these being fixed by using Core and adding water, is there anything else that I am missing here?
post #7 of 13
Maybe raw would be better suited for you? It's a thought, anyway.


I think wet would be better for the dog, but wet for a dog that big wouldn't be cheap.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwmommy View Post
Sharky, I am aware of the bacterial/fungal bloom that can occur, but is that not safe even for an hour down (this is as long as I can stand to have wet food down as well, due to smell, but the Core+water is MUCH easier and better for me--I just want to make sure it is OK for him as well!)?

Also, since I love your posts and totally respect your approach, is there a significant nutritional difference between water+grain free/high protein Core food and canned grain free Wellness? Most of the opinions/research I have seen seems to focus on high carb/grain content and low moisture as being the huge negative things about dry food. With these being fixed by using Core and adding water, is there anything else that I am missing here?
I read a study many yrs ago ( 5-10 ) about the bacteria and dry food with water ... if kitty will eat it within 30 minutes you should be fine ... but an hour I would worry ( this is a good one to run by your vet , ie they will note stuff like humidity )

YES still a huge difference ...

see dry food take a 1/2 cup is 10% moisture so even adding 1/4 cup water still yield you at MOST 60% moisture
typical canned food is 78% -82%

what "flavors " have you tried that smell bad to you??? in the canned??

Are you willing to look at raw?? it DOES NOT smell"_
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately, I cannot do raw. I am close to vegetarian myself, and cannot handle that amount of meat or I would gag (part of the canned food issue, I am sure). I am also the mom of a son with significant disabilities and hardly have time to shower at the end of the day, much less grind meat!

If you note my original post, I have mixed Core/water in a 1:3 ratio-- which yields a 75-85% water mixture.

As far as flavors, we are only using the Kitten Wellness canned. It is my understanding that since our baby is only like 14 weeks old, we should not use the other varieties, and will need to wait until he is much older to stop using the Kitten. Is this not true, in your view?
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwmommy View Post
Unfortunately, I cannot do raw. I am close to vegetarian myself, and cannot handle that amount of meat or I would gag (part of the canned food issue, I am sure). I am also the mom of a son with significant disabilities and hardly have time to shower at the end of the day, much less grind meat!

If you note my original post, I have mixed Core/water in a 1:3 ratio-- which yields a 75% water mixture.

As far as flavors, we are only using the Kitten Wellness canned. It is my understanding that since our baby is only like 14 weeks old, we should not use the other varieties, and will need to wait until he is much older to stop using the Kitten. Is this not true, in your view?
the 1 to 3 may work if KITTY agrees to eat it quickly but I still hesitate ...

I understand completely about the raw ...

If you compare the vital stuff like protein and fat youll find kitten and adult are nearly identical ... Off to check and find what I have that is all stage ( ie kitten thru ....)
post #11 of 13
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...an_kitten.html
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein \tNot Less Than \t11.0%
Crude Fat \tNot Less Than \t7.0%
Crude Fiber \tNot More Than \t1.0%
Moisture \tNot More Than \t78.0%
Ash \tNot More Than \t2.3%
Magnesium \tNot More Than \t0.025%
Taurine \tNot Less Than \t0.10%

As Served Per Can (percent per can)
Protein: \t11.5%
Fat: \t11.3%
Fiber: \t0.25%
Met. Energy (Kcal/kg): \t1,427
Ash: \t1.9%
Magnesium: \t0.02%
Taurine: \t0.10%

Caloric Analysis (kcal/can)
3 oz. can \t122


http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...n_chicken.html

ADULT chicken

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein \tNot Less Than \t10.0%
Crude Fat \tNot Less Than \t5.0%
Crude Fiber \tNot More Than \t1.0%
Moisture \tNot More Than \t78.0%
Ash \tNot More Than \t1.95%
Magnesium \tNot More Than \t0.025%
Taurine \tNot Less Than \t0.10%

As Served Per Can (percent per can)
Protein: \t12.0%
Fat: \t11.0%
Fiber: \t0.27%
Met. Energy (Kcal/kg): \t1,411
Ash: \t1.9%
Magnesium: \t0.02%
Taurine: \t0.15%
Caloric Analysis (kcal/can)
3 oz. \t120
5.5 oz. \t220
12.5 oz. \t500

you can see the calories are within 2 a 3oz can and the adult as fed actually has more protein


maybe try a fish flavor if that is something you can handle ???

Felidea is all stage
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
cool-- maybe I will try to mix it up a bit flavor-wise. Maybe he will like it more, and I will find something that I can deal with. I still might do the Core+water from time to time as a treat since he loves it so much.
post #13 of 13
How about Steve's Real Food? I haven't used it myself, but they have a freeze-dried version that can be rehydrated:

http://www.stevesrealfood.com/feline/feed_cat.html
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