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Protein

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know a good cat food for cat's that need extra protein? My cat Blue has been diagnosed with some sort of kidney issue, we won't know exactly what she has until they do an ultrasound. But in the meantime she is very low on protein so before we do anything else we went to get her protein up. The vet put her on Enacard which I have to give her half of everyday, probably for the rest of her life. The best way I've found after much experimentation, is to wrap it in a small piece of turkey. She eats it right up pill and all. I also figured if she's low on protein the turkey would probably be good for anyway. But I only give her a small piece so I'm interested in buying her a food that she can eat everyday that will help get her levels up. My other question is if it is okay to give my other cat a high protein food as well since they both eat each others food from time to time. I don't know if extra protein would be bad for a cat that isn't loosing it.
post #2 of 25
cats are carnivores and protein is fine. Also nothing wrong with giving chicken/turley as snacks
You can feed a raw food diet or you can pick a quality canned food with little in the way of grains if possible. There is a difference between animal based protein and plant based protein
http://www.catinfo.org/#My_Cat_is_Do...ne_on_Dry_Food
This list will give you kcal from proteins. You will find that fish is the highest in protein but especially with kidney problems you want to keep phosperous down so i would keep fish to a minimum
http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodOld.html
Best of luck to you
post #3 of 25
WHAT KIND of KIDNEY issue .. >>?? there are types where a RAW DIET is WRONG on all counts ... a quality canned is OKAY for 95% of kidney cats .. YOU really NEED to talk with your vet or a vet with a nutrition background ...
post #4 of 25
Kidney issue? Kidney's process things like protien. Too much = too much for kidneys to handle. Overload not properly functioning kidneys is a very bad thing.

Raw would be all wrong in the instance of a kidney issue, most likely due to the fact that raw is very high protien which the kidneys have trouble processing.

Make sense?
post #5 of 25
Cats with renal failure are traditionally fed a protein and phosphorus restricted diet. This helps control the buildup of wastes in the blood (creatinine and BUN) from protein metabolism. More vets are finding that controlling phosphorus intake (and serum phosphorus levels) is more effective at slowing the progression of CRF, than protein restriction. If your cat has renal failure, you should work closely with your vet to determine the proper diet for your cat.

Good luck to you and your kitty!
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Right now she doesn't have renal failure, THANK GOD! As of right now her only problem is that her kidney isn't filtering protein properly so she's loosing a lot of it in her urine. The vet said according to her blood work and urinalysis that everything else is fine. He also said that her urine was very concentrated, which is a good thing, it sounded bad when he said it. We won't really know what is causing the protein loss until the ultrasound, like I said our main concern right now is getting her weight and protein back up.
post #7 of 25
TALK with your vet ... YOU may need something HIGH in fat NOT protein
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks I will, he didn't say anything at all about her diet he just prescribed the medication which is supposed to help her absorb protein. But I will definitely ask him about it on our next visit.

In response to what kind of kidney issue, we don't know yet. We won't know exactly what the problem is until we do the ultrasound, which we're going to do in a few weeks once she is feeling a little better. Our last vet visit was very traumatic for her, the vet had to draw blood and the guy helping him restrain her did a very bad job in my opinion. He tried twice in her throat area and she kept jerking away after he stuck her. Then he went in her inner thigh and was able to get some there while I helped restrain her. I hated the whole experience, she was crying the whole time, she started foaming at the mouth, and she even dry heaved after the two neck attempts. So we're going to wait at least a week until we bring her back. He seems to think she has PKD, which is a kidney disease common in Persians and exotics. We're not sure what breed she is, she was a stray that we too in a few years ago but looking at her she definately has something like that in her background.
post #9 of 25
I hope you find the cause and things work out
Well you are not dealing with crf apparantly but for others that are
I disagree with many of the above posts
FWIW I know people who have been feeding raw to crf cats for more then 5 years and the resuts speak for themselves. names and addy on request
There is new thinking out there that low protein is not the way to go in a cat with kidney issues unless it is in the very final stages. it is not the quantity of the protein that matters but the quality.
The Merck veterinary manual [www.merckvetmanual.com] says that cats need "4 g of protein of high biologic value per kg body wt/day". That's about 7 calories from protein per pound body weight per day. If a cat isn't a good eater and consumes, say, 20 calories per pound per day, then 7/20 = 35% of calories can safely be from protein. It must be high quality protein, which means meat, fish, milk, and eggs, and not grain or soy.

many of my links I had are busted by I still have a few

This
*There are varying opinions in the veterinary community as to whether low protein food is effective in the management of feline CRF. Some experts believe that any benefit from eating low protein food may be from the lower content of phosphorous contained in the food rather than the low protein itself. Furthermore, some believe that a low protein diet contributes to weakness and muscle wasting, two very common symptoms in CRF cats.
is from here
http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm

The place you are going to get the best information on what to do with this is the groups of crf people who deal with this every day for years and see hundreds of different examples of what is done in treatment. You cannot beat that type of cumilitive knowlege
There are a few yahoo groups. here is one
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...ec=group&slk=5
Please alsp check the regular crf yahoo group best of luck
post #10 of 25
You probably need to talk more with your vet. Protein in the urine is usually a symptom of renal failure, the kidney is not filtering the protein. Another cause of protein in the urine is diabetes. You should have bloodwork done to find out what your cat's BUN (blood urea nitrogen) and Creatinine levels are. Those are the most reliable indicators of kidney function. If those levels are elevated, then renal failure is present. A blood glucose level should be done to rule out diabetes as a cause for proteinurea.

Here is a link which discusses Enacard and renal failure:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=535

Here is a link which discusses proteinurea (protein in the urine.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinuria

Good luck to you and your kitty! Please keep us posted!
post #11 of 25
A little birdy told me that in the case of PKD, you do not give them high protien at all.

I agree with Pookie Poo that you need to find out what the Creatinine & BUN levels are - to determine what exactly is going on. Did the vet draw blood to do a blood panel (sorry, I'm a bit slow tonight...) ?
post #12 of 25
your pm box is full
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC32879 View Post
...Our last vet visit was very traumatic for her, the vet had to draw blood and the guy helping him restrain her did a very bad job in my opinion. He tried twice in her throat area and she kept jerking away after he stuck her. Then he went in her inner thigh and was able to get some there while I helped restrain her. I hated the whole experience, she was crying the whole time, she started foaming at the mouth, and she even dry heaved after the two neck attempts...
MMC32879-
A side note but, I think necessary to make. Very recently, perhaps on this forum, I read an account of a similar event where a Vet tech had botched taking a sample from the jugular. There was obvious trauma - the cat appeared to develop blood clots and shortly thereafter, died. What you've described is nightmarish. I would try Feliway spray and/or Rescue Remedy for starters. You might bring her favourite treats - even some small tuna tidbits - for every visit there. I do not allow use of the jugular - the upper rear leg works just fine. Vet visits can - and need to be - as pleasant as possible experiences, not potentially dangerous and damaging. Think it through, set the stage, bring the "props" and speak with your Vet - there is absolutely no need for any similar reoccurrence.
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAISE View Post
MMC32879-
A side note but, I think necessary to make. Very recently, perhaps on this forum, I read an account of a similar event where a Vet tech had botched taking a sample from the jugular. There was obvious trauma - the cat appeared to develop blood clots and shortly thereafter, died. What you've described is nightmarish. I would try Feliway spray and/or Rescue Remedy for starters. You might bring her favourite treats - even some small tuna tidbits - for every visit there. I do not allow use of the jugular - the upper rear leg works just fine. Vet visits can - and need to be - as pleasant as possible experiences, not potentially dangerous and damaging. Think it through, set the stage, bring the "props" and speak with your Vet - there is absolutely no need for any similar reoccurrence.
Thank you so much for that information. Do you think that is something that might have happened? The vet visit was on Wednesday if she had developed or is developing a blood clot would I have noticed anything by now? I'm never going to let that happen to her again, if they need blood they can get it from her leg. As for the Fleiway I've never tried it before but it's something I'm going to look into for the next trip. She was actually doing pretty well until they took the blood, she was nervous but not as bad as my other cats have been at the vet. I did bring treats and she was eating them, when I tried giving my other cats treats at the vet they didn't want anything to do with them because they were so scared.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC32879 View Post
...The vet visit was on Wednesday if she had developed or is developing a blood clot would I have noticed anything by now?...
I was not suggesting that it had even happened in your case...I just wanted to alert you of another situation where it apparently happened.

Would you have noticed anything by now? I'm not a Vet. In the case I referenced, my memory tells me that symptoms were noticed within 24 hours for sure. If I were you, this now being Sunday, I would not be concerned. I would just - as I always do - pay close attention for any behaviour changes. And, in your case, remember, it was the VET who drew the blood...someone with much more "hands-on" experience. That should give you some confidence.

When I wrote the post, I was not suggesting that Blue had been/might have been injured during that event - I wanted to share that other case to show the real possibility of what can occur in that situation - and that we have the ability/power to eliminate/minimize the possibility of its occurrence.

I hope that helps.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAISE View Post
I was not suggesting that it had even happened in your case...I just wanted to alert you of another situation where it apparently happened.

Would you have noticed anything by now? I'm not a Vet. In the case I referenced, my memory tells me that symptoms were noticed within 24 hours for sure. If I were you, this now being Sunday, I would not be concerned. I would just - as I always do - pay close attention for any behaviour changes. And, in your case, remember, it was the VET who drew the blood...someone with much more "hands-on" experience. That should give you some confidence.

When I wrote the post, I was not suggesting that Blue had been/might have been injured during that event - I wanted to share that other case to show the real possibility of what can occur in that situation - and that we have the ability/power to eliminate/minimize the possibility of its occurrence.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for reposting so quick, I didn't think that's what you were implying I just get so worried about her sometimes, especially now with her being sick. She definately seems fine, she seem back to the way she was before the vet visit so I don't think she was injured, just tramatized. I actually thought it was a little weird that he went in the neck in the first place. I can't remember if any of my other cat's had blood drawn but it's definitely the first I've seen blood taken that way. Like I said from now on if they need to take blood from her I'm going to insist on them getting it from her leg. She didn't like that much either but it seems like it has less of injury. Thanks again.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC32879 View Post
...but it's definitely the first I've seen blood taken that way...
My own introduction to this was after the fact...the tell-tale shaved area on the neck. I asked what it was all about...then, I "put my foot down".

I think I would insist on being with her...it will probably help in keeping her as less-stressed as possible, plus you will know how the procedure "went down".
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAISE View Post
My own introduction to this was after the fact...the tell-tale shaved area on the neck. I asked what it was all about...then, I "put my foot down".

I think I would insist on being with her...it will probably help in keeping her as less-stressed as possible, plus you will know how the procedure "went down".
I would never let them do anything like that to her if I wasn't in the room, especially after the last time. You mentioned that when they did it to your cat they shaved the neck. He didn't shave her at all he just had the assistant hold her head back and did it. He did this in the throat area, not the back of the back part of the neck between the shoulder blades where they usually give shots. I don't know, like I said if the need anymore blood from her I'm not letting them go near her throat again.
post #19 of 25
MMC32879 - Please remember that *ALL* posts in these forums are by people who are well meaning but who should NOT be considered to possess expert knowledge. We all post opinions based on our own experiences and research and on our possibly flawed interpretions of those experiences and research.

I hope your kitty gets well soon.
post #20 of 25
I do agree, that, once your vet determines what exactly is going on with the kidneys....maybe print out this thread & bring it along to discuss with him/her.
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
MMC32879 - Please remember that *ALL* posts in these forums are by people who are well meaning but who should NOT be considered to possess expert knowledge. We all post opinions based on our own experiences and research and on our possibly flawed interpretions of those experiences and research.

I hope your kitty gets well soon.
I appreciate the post. I wouldn't do anything without first discussing it with a vet, I basically use the information I get here as things to bring up when we do to the vet. Also I like to hear from people in similar situations to get insite from their experiences.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC32879 View Post
I appreciate the post. I wouldn't do anything without first discussing it with a vet, I basically use the information I get here as things to bring up when we do to the vet. Also I like to hear from people in similar situations to get insite from their experiences.
Excellent approach!
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well I just spoke to the vet, I'm actually shocked he called me on a Sunday to check on Blue. I thought that was pretty cool of him. Anyway I asked him if giving her more protein would help or hurt her. He said probably won't make much of a difference we just have to let the medication do it's thing. I have to bring her back either the end of this week or early next week. I'm opting for the latter, I want to give the medication enough time to work. When I mentioned the ultrasound he said we'll see what happens and that we may be able to correct whatever is wrong without doing one. So I'll be sure to keep everyone posted. Thanks for all the advice and vibes.
post #24 of 25
SENDING VIBES ... that all will be easy to manage or fix... PS it is great to have vets that answer and check up...
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
Excellent approach!
I agree with mschauer.
Here is my 2 cents anyway:I am a firm believer in raw food diets and grain free diets and from my own research, raw and grain free are actually good for kidney issues. These cats need extra moisture so dry food is not a good idea.
http://www.holisticat.com/crf/Urinal...lood-Test.html

I really hope your cat gets better.
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