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Vibes for Mabel please - Page 2  

post #31 of 59
8/1/08 at 1:07am
it's so difficult isn't it. when janet was ill we didn't know what was wrong with him. the vet tested for the usual problems in elderly cats plus the leukemia and aids test. she mentioned FIP which to that point i had never even heard of. i then worried myself stupid by looking online for answers. (sadly i found TCS too late for janet)

hindsight now tells me to enjoy every last minute with a sick pet. live for today and don't think too hard about the future. obviously get help and advice (which is where TSC excells) but enjoy your time with mabel.

i lost 3 of my precious babies within the same year and it can seem as though life is being cruel. but we are there for our furry friends through the good times and bad. you are doing everything in your power to make mabel happy and comfortable, and she knows that.
post #32 of 59
8/2/08 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
It is, but I should be used to it, it isnt the first time I have dealt with cancer, although it is normally in cats i haven't had long, so reading them is very hard. FIP was mentioned for Mabel, I have dealt with that too, but fortunately one of her other levels is more indicative of lymphoma - although neither are treatable, it is just better for the other cats.

I have never managed to do that, and I do end up letting mine go sooner, but at least it means they go while they have some dignity left. The only consolation with Mabel is that she isn't going to end her life in a rescue, she has comfy carpet and beds (even if she does prefer to sleep on the stairs!!). We aren't having a good day, she is off the sensitivity food, and the new dry food I gave her has gone straight through her, but it looks like there was some blood too, which worried me. I have till Mon to make a decision as to whehter to continue steroids, or let her go, so all depends on how she goes on between now and then.

i am sorry to hear that, I sadly know the feeling.
post #33 of 59
8/2/08 at 2:10pm
I'm sorry to hear this, please know that Mabel and you are in my Prayers.
post #34 of 59
8/2/08 at 2:29pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, it means a lot.
post #35 of 59
8/3/08 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 
Another bad day, she is still not solid, so I am getting concerned now that the steroids aren't working. So hard to know what to do though, as she is eating well, and interacting with me, but I know her pooing so much and it being so loose isn't good for her.
post #36 of 59
8/3/08 at 12:00pm
You never know, the next time she goes it could be more solid. Continued Prayers.
post #37 of 59
8/3/08 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
i do hope so.
post #38 of 59
8/3/08 at 6:14pm
I am so sorry you and Mabel are going through this. I truly believe that Mabel ended up with you specifically because you are the perfect person to see her through her final days with love and dignity.


Lots and lots of love going out to you
post #39 of 59
8/4/08 at 12:08am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, a friend said the same thing to me. She was supposed to help me get over losing Rosie, I didn't expect that it would be by being ill herself. She still isn't solid overnight, but more hungry, so not sure how good the news from the vet is going to be.
post #40 of 59
8/4/08 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by booktigger View Post
I have never managed to do that, and I do end up letting mine go sooner, but at least it means they go while they have some dignity left.
that's what i meant, i think i worded it badly. i would never hold on to my pet for my own selfish reasons and like you, believe they should, if it's in my power, have some dignity left at the end. oh but it is not easy. my heart goes out to you and your family.

it is all encompassing when a pet is ill like this. but i agree with the previous poster that as unfair as it seems, mabel was destined to be with you.
post #41 of 59
8/4/08 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tab View Post
it is all encompassing when a pet is ill like this. but i agree with the previous poster that as unfair as it seems, Mabel was destined to be with you.
adding my for Mabel...
post #42 of 59
8/4/08 at 1:35pm
booktigger-
I've been reading this thread from the start. I was buoyed with your first post - it was, well, quite frankly joyous to hear of your taking in this seasoned lady. And then, to read how she blossomed in a very short period of time, settling in very happily and quite enjoying herself. Then, it seemed to me, doom and gloom settled in with her first Vet visit.

Sometimes my own experience with "seasoned professionals" leaves me with a feeling of confidence...I say to myself "Boy, does s/he ever know their trade." Other times, I'm left with far less than adequate satisfaction, thinking to myself that they are misfits in their trade or, that they've become jaded and should have retired years ago, etc. etc.

I wasn't sure of your reaction when your Vet took one look at Mabel and immediately made pronouncements - I just couldn't "read" you. I know that, for a number of reasons, I was somewhat taken aback. However, I passed judgement, thinking that it certainly was possible that she had the ability to sense Mabel's conditions....yet, it was a little too eerily "ESPish" for my liking.

Then, I read that, with what appeared to be a basic blood panel, she had diagnosed intestinal cancer. Frankly, I was left scratching my head. I'm aware that, at least one raised value in such a test - calcium - might suggest the presence of cancer, but is in no way indicative of it.

I have several questions/suggestions that I'd like to raise...I'm unsure, though, if they would be acceptable/appropriate/ welcome. I feel, in a way, that I'd be "sticking my nose in"...at the same time, I'm having a hard time "holding my tongue". I know that, when I read case stories on TCS, I'm always asking myself what I would do in that situation were it to happen here with one of mine.

So, maybe let me know if I should raise questions, or hold my peace!

One simple thing, though has to do with the prednisone - and, it has come up on the board today in another thread. It's the effect of pred on a cat's appetite. Have a read from here on

Now, from what you said, Mabel was already eating like a horse before starting on pred, so this is likely to increase an already ravenous appetite.

Just one more thing...does the Vet believe that the pred should stop the diarrhea? I guess what I'm really wondering is why the pred was prescribed.
post #43 of 59
8/5/08 at 12:19am
Thread Starter 
Blaise -I knew from day 2 that there was something underlying with her, and a nurse friend agreed, so I was expecting something (and one of the reasons it was left for nearly 3 weeks was for her to improve before the vet saw her), although I was suspecting liver (a previous cat had the same kind of fur wtih liver probs) and thyroid, due to her appetite - suppose it is just dealing with so many elderly cats, and having dealt with a variety of illnesses. i was right about Rosie's CRF too, and I knew that from day 2. She didn't have a basic blood test, she had a complete one sent off to an external lab, which covered everything (it is the most expensive and thorough test they do, and one that I have done on my cats yearly). Her liver values were indeed an issue,her thyroid was actually low, which indicates an illness supressing it. I actually looked at the results myself when the vet was out of the room, and she wasnt the one drawing the conclusions, what this lab does is have a couple of paragraphs underneath basically saying what the results indicate. We could have done a further test to confirm it, but i opted not to do that, she didn't like blood being taken, and it wasn't going to change anything. STeroids are a normal 'treatment' for intestinal lymphoma, I dont understand how they work, but it was the only option, and one given with a caution that the vet couldnt guarantee they would work, nor could she guarantee that it wouldnt aggravate anything else. i know other people with a similar diagnosis who have been given the same treatment, and I have done some reading about it - normally my vet doesn't use steroids. I have worked with my vet for about 4 years, and we have dealt with numerous issues, so I do trust her.

When I spoke to the vet yesterday, the only option left was to increase the preds, and if it doens't help, I have no option than to let her go - her food is obviously going through her quite quickly and not always fully digested, so we have 2 weeks of a higher dose, and I am going to use these two weeks to see how she goes, and if no better, I am going to let her go, as we can't cure her, it is only buying her time, but it has to be quality time, and I am not 100% sure about that, with watching her be so ravenous and then dealing with sloppy poo.
post #44 of 59
8/5/08 at 11:32am
booktigger-
Thank you for going that deeply into the "behind the scene" part. It helps me understand more fully.

Because of my own questioning, I was looking for other possible causes...one, as you had also wondered about, was hyperthroidism.

But, there was another...have a read here

I'm unsure about the intended use of the steroid...I am aware of it's use in terminal stage feline cancers to slow the progression - but, in this context, while it might slow the growth, I don't see how it could be expected to reverse the result (stop the diarrhea).

The pancreatic link, however, seems to cover all the symptoms...unless I'm missing something.
post #45 of 59
8/5/08 at 4:15pm
Hi Booktiger Sorry to hear Mabel isn't feeling better. Have you tried a probiotic to help with the diarraha? It works within 24 hrs, it puts good bactera back into the stomach. Of course, it will not change the underlying problem but it may make Mabel more comfortable. Here's a link it is certainly nothing that will hurt her and can be used on any cat any time. I use the powder and just sprinkle it over their food. http://www.jarrow.com/product-227
This is the product I use. I'm sure there are alot of others out there. Hope Mabel feels better soon.
post #46 of 59
8/6/08 at 12:25am
Thread Starter 
Pancreatitis was mentioned when she first saw the vet due to the fact she had had pale poo, but it is something that is very hard to test for in the UK, it was suspected with one of my other cats, and I think bloods have to be sent to the US. It wasn't mentioned after her tests came back as they swayed more towards cancer, IBS was mentioned, but ruled out due to her age and the fact she hadn't been like this constantly since she came, nor did the rescue mention any issues.

She has got worse since I spoke to the vet on Mon, so I need to speak to her again today and see if she recommends taking things further, or letting her go. i think her teeth might have got worse, after sitting watching her eat last night. I am preparing myself for her saying I have to let her go though.
post #47 of 59
8/6/08 at 5:27am
Many many Prayers for Mabel and you.
post #48 of 59
8/6/08 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
Well, the vet couldnt speak to me today, so I have an appointment for tomorrow, but I dont think I will be bringing her home - ironically, the radio is playing an apt song as I am typing this. Part of me wants to be selfish and ask for something else to buy her a few days, but I know even if the vet agrees and it just buys her the weekend, it isn't going to be any easier to face, and I will be doing it for me, not for her, and that isn't right - sometimes not having them for long is just as hard to bear, as you want that extra few days/weeks with them. It is so unfair that she has finally got a home after all that time in a rescue, and her eyes and nose have finally cleared up, so she is like a normal cat, and it is all going to be taken away from her due to cancer.
post #49 of 59
8/6/08 at 12:32pm
I'm so sorry, at least she did know love and knows how much you love her. Many Prayers for you both.
post #50 of 59
8/6/08 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by booktigger View Post
Pancreatitis was mentioned when she first saw the vet due to the fact she had had pale poo, but it is something that is very hard to test for in the UK......
I only skimmed your post earlier today. I wish I had just slowed down and carefully read it.

I was not suggesting Pancreatitis.

I was suggesting Maldigestion Disorder (also known as Maldigestion Syndrome, pancreatic insufficiency and, formally "Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency"), and it's symptoms are weight loss, constant hunger, poor quality hair coat, high volumes of watery or loose stool, large quantities of undigested fat present in the stool. To quote that reference, "The animal, in his appearance and behavior, typifies one that is starving to death, and in reality, he is".

That sounds like your description of Mabel.

With Maldigestion Disorder, the pancreas is not sending sufficient enzymes to the intestine where they're used to break down the food. Without sufficient enzymes, the food just passes through, undigested. (THAT clue is what first caught my attention - with intestional cancer, I would have expected blood in the stool- usually they're black and tarry.)

The good news is that the treatment is simple - give the cat a pill containing the missing enzymes.

You mentioned the elevated liver levels - this also occurs with inflammation of the pancreas, which is thought to be the cause of Maldigestion Disorder.

From that link: "Cats should also be placed on a low-fiber diet"...so, if her "sensitivity food" is high fibre and - if this is what's wrong - the food may be contributing to the loose stool.

I read how you described her as "bright and playful", "interacting well" with you...that doesn't sound like a cat with Ca to me. With intestinal cancer, I would expect lethargy, hiding, and, again, black, tarry stools.

If putting a few extra enzymes in her gut - and, if there's no immanent danger in doing this, why not try? I suppose one of the determinants is whether/not your Vet will be open to discussing the possibility of this and thinking it through. We see many examples here of Vets who become entrenched in their determinations.

My thoughts will be with you and Mabel tomorrow.
post #51 of 59
8/7/08 at 12:06am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, it is certainly something to mention to the vet, as she has gone 3 times in 12 hours, so isn't keeping her food in her long enough. There is blood in most of it though.
post #52 of 59
8/7/08 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by booktigger View Post
...she has gone 3 times in 12 hours....There is blood in most of it though.
If the blood is red (and, I'm thinking that we commonly see red blood in a kitty with stool problems) then, perhaps, it is to be expected anyway with the diarrhea, and not the result of anything nefarious in her gut (Ca). If the blood were black, I think it might strengthen my suspicion of Ca.

Mind you, I'm no Vet, but I have had and witnessed conversations like this about human health goings-on. That's the kind of thing that's motivating my "mulling".

You might want to try and determine if what she's eating is high fibre...if so, that may not be helping.
post #53 of 59
8/7/08 at 12:36pm
Thread Starter 
It was discussed with the vet, but she was still swaying more towards cancer, based on how her tum felt. She did also check her mouth for me, as she wasn't eating all her food, and there were ulcers in her mouth, whereas less than 2 weeks ago it was just a case of a few bad teeth, she was dehydrated, and her liver felt different, and the vet could feel nodules on it, so there were too many things going on to continue, the vet said she looked and felt worse than when she last saw her (and would have pts then if I had allowed it), I could have brought her home, but I would have been doing it for the wrong reasons, her quality of life was going. I just wish that she could have had longer here, after spending so long in a rescue with snuffles, but obviously it wasn't meant to be. The vet was surprised that a rescue had homed a cat in her condition, and she saw her after her fur, nose and eyes had cleared up. RIP little one, I wish I had known about you sooner.
post #54 of 59
8/7/08 at 12:38pm
So sorry you lost her.
post #55 of 59
8/7/08 at 12:48pm
I'm so so sorry for your loss. You took such good care of her. RIP little Mabel. Many Prayers to help you through this time.
post #56 of 59
8/7/08 at 2:53pm
I am so sorry for the loss of dear Mabel . You did so much for her in her final days and I'm sure she understood. She was loved and that goes a long way. I have been following this thread from the beginning, but never having owned or loved an older cat I was unsure how to comment.

Fly swiftly little one...
post #57 of 59
8/7/08 at 11:51pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone, it means a lot. It is just so unfair that she didn't get a long time here, but at least she did get a home life, and her symptoms were picked up, it might not have happened in the rescue.
post #58 of 59
8/8/08 at 2:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by booktigger View Post
Thanks everyone, it means a lot. It is just so unfair that she didn't get a long time here, but at least she did get a home life, and her symptoms were picked up, it might not have happened in the rescue.
The fact that she was in a home with someone who loved her is a precious gift. She didn't have to go as a nameless cat in a shelter. She was your Mabel and that means a lot.
I am sorry for your loss.
post #59 of 59
8/11/08 at 6:53am
I'm so sorry for your loss. RIP Mabel.

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