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"Honor killing" in suburban Atlanta

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Dad charged with murder in bride's 'honor killing'

The daughter wanted out of an arranged marriage.

Quote:
"Honor killings" -- the slaying by family members of a woman or girl thought to be bringing them shame -- are usually kept quiet, making it difficult to determine how frequently they occur.

The United Nations Population Fund estimated in September 2000 that as many as 5,000 women and girls fall victim to such killings each year.
post #2 of 20
That is so sad.

I just don't understand how a father could do that to his own daughter...
post #3 of 20
It's a bit too late for him to turn the waterworks on now isn't it!
post #4 of 20
What makes an "honor killing" any different than getting mad and murdering somebody? It sounds like they got in a fight and he killed her because he was mad. And now, being from a culture where women are treated like cattle, he thinks he didn't do anything wrong.

Well, hope he enjoys jail.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
What makes an "honor killing" any different than getting mad and murdering somebody? It sounds like they got in a fight and he killed her because he was mad. And now, being from a culture where women are treated like cattle, he thinks he didn't do anything wrong.

Well, hope he enjoys jail.
Forever. But that is Georgia and he may be getting a seat on an electric chair.

Pointless loss of life.
post #6 of 20
I hope they send him to Millegeville prison. It is the worst prison in Georgia. He is no longer living where he can just kill his daughter because he is mad at her. Georgians are not big on people that come to the US and want to keep their own laws. They probably will give him the big jolt of electricity or the needle. If he lives long enough and the convicts don't get him.
post #7 of 20
He should have offed himself instead.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
What makes an "honor killing" any different than getting mad and murdering somebody? It sounds like they got in a fight and he killed her because he was mad. And now, being from a culture where women are treated like cattle, he thinks he didn't do anything wrong.

Well, hope he enjoys jail.
But, don't you think most of the time the father or brothers do it, in, pretty much, cold blood?
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
But, don't you think most of the time the father or brothers do it, in, pretty much, cold blood?
Yes they do. It is actually a real thing to plot the murder of the wayward daughter. These are not the laws of this country so I always wonder why move here if you believe that kind of stuff. What do you think is going to happen? Your children will become more Americanized.
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
But, don't you think most of the time the father or brothers do it, in, pretty much, cold blood?
No, I don't. I think it is murder that has been institutionalized as acceptable.

Sort of the way a lot of courts were more lenient if you murdered your wife after catching her cheating on you.
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
No, I don't. I think it is murder that has been institutionalized as acceptable.

Sort of the way a lot of courts were more lenient if you murdered your wife after catching her cheating on you.
I think you two agree. Cold blooded is a murder that is planned, and acceptable to the people doing it. Murder after catching your wife with another man would be a crime of passion, not planned, and while still not right...a little more understandable.
post #12 of 20
My point was that these are men with serious issues who get pissed off and then murder their child (not in cold blood at all) and then try to claim later that it was okay even though they know it wasn't.
post #13 of 20
These things are the result of "diversity" and ethnic separateness. This country has always been the "Great Melting Pot" where immigrants from different countries became Americans. It's one thing to honor and remember your ethnic heritage; it's something quite different to still live it when you're working on, or have become, a citizen of another country. When people come here to make a life here, they should no longer be Italians, or Greeks, or Chinese, or Mexicans, or Pakistanis. They're free to add what they want to that big pot -- it makes the stew ever more flavorful. But then they should eat the same stew as everyone else. They should be Americans, and they should honor American customs, values, social mores, and most of all: American LAWS.

We don't do honor killings in this country.
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
My point was that these are men with serious issues who get pissed off and then murder their child (not in cold blood at all) and then try to claim later that it was okay even though they know it wasn't.
Ok, maybe I'm confused but describe your definition of "cold blood".
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
These things are the result of "diversity" and ethnic separateness. This country has always been the "Great Melting Pot" where immigrants from different countries became Americans. It's one thing to honor and remember your ethnic heritage; it's something quite different to still live it when you're working on, or have become, a citizen of another country. When people come here to make a life here, they should no longer be Italians, or Greeks, or Chinese, or Mexicans, or Pakistanis. They're free to add what they want to that big pot -- it makes the stew ever more flavorful. But then they should eat the same stew as everyone else. They should be Americans, and they should honor American customs, values, social mores, and most of all: American LAWS.

We don't do honor killings in this country.
Ah. This is what I was trying to say so poorly. That this isn't really a cultural thing, a widespread "let's have honor killings in America". This is people who murder their children over an argument, but happen to come from a society where the men have decided that this is understandable. I'm sure the women of those societies, and quite a few of the men, don't think it's okay either.

To get a little off-topic, so long as people are able to integrate into society and follow the laws, why does it matter if they have American values? Other cultures have significantly more emphasis on interdependence, and I don't really think that would be a bad thing to have more of here. Those cultures also have very little crime. The melting pot analogy has always struck me as more than a little intolerant. Why not a mosaic? Everything fits into the big picture without being homogenous. That is, not everyone has to pretend they're middle-class, white, suburbanites (and that is the culture you are saying they should adopt). Why can't we all just respect each other? Of course, this is murder, and I would think it was murder if it happened in their home country too.
post #16 of 20
People who don't share the same (or at least similar) values, customs, mores, and so forth tend to separate themselves into groups of people who share their same values. We've worked too hard for too long to combat separation. Separation was once coded into law and was called apartheid. Separation was once used as the reasoning for "no coloreds allowed." There are still groups practicing separation, e.g. that LDS split-off in Texas recently in the news.

I think the "Great Melting Pot" is one of the key factors behind American's strength and success. The other, of course, being the Constitution. When we feel like we're one, then we pull together when we really need to pull together. When we're split apart, then the separate parts do their own things, go their own ways, and the strength of the country is diminished.

In America we can each be different from each other, we just don't want to be TOO different. Differences just make people uncomfortable. It's human nature, you're not going to change that. Even if you respect the differences of someone else, and they respect yours, the natural inclination is to just stick with your own group. Remember high school? Human nature at work.

You can see this in each wave of immigrants: they clustered together into their own communities. It wasn't until the second or even third generation that they got out of their protective and comfortable zones and integrated into the general social fabric. And it happened because they learned English, and picked up the customs, ideas, thoughts, values of those around them; principally in school, and later through work. In other words, they because less and less Chinese, Italians, Irish, or whatever, and more and more just plain Americans.

That process is in danger of being lost in this country.

My thoughts on the matter, anyway, since you asked.
post #17 of 20
I don't feel that separation in the US is anything new. It's been here since before the country even began. That is why we have "Indian Reservations" to this day. Because those that didn't eagerly want to "be like us", just had to be separate. Fraternal Organizations, Exclusive Clubs, Churches, even Home Owner's Associations practice separation. And when a member of a political party accuses members of another party of treason simply because of who they support, that's some pretty extreme separation.
post #18 of 20
No, of course it's nothing new. What I'm asking is when has is ever done this country any good?

If you look at individual groups, for every single group that let go of the separateness and assimilated, it's been a good thing. If you look at the groups that cling to it, I can't think of any case where it's done them any good.

So why is it that diversity has been such a sought-after goal? I've got to wonder. I might even go so far as to wonder if it's being used by some to subvert the unity and tear apart the social fabric of the country. Why? Because they don't want what's good for the country, they selfishly want what they think is good for them.

So recent immigrants aren't being encouraged any longer to assimilate, and then you have things like these "honor" killings.
post #19 of 20
I like the fact that we are a rich tapestry of all kinds of people it adds character to our culture. You can assimilate and still be proud of your heritage.
I think that is America.
post #20 of 20
Of course. Nobody has to give up their heritage. You can't give up your heritage. It's always part of your history. You can't change history. (Though history textbook writers a pretty good job at spinning it the way they want.)
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