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U.S. Army discrimination against non-Christians? - Page 2

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
No matter what happened in Rome, Christians are now and have been the majority in most of the world (Western world for sure) for a long, long time. Those of us who aren't in that majority feel that stigma almost daily, depending on how open and vocal we are with our views. It's really only been recently that it's become a real political issue to separate church and state. Honestly, I don't know why; if it's because the minority is more vocal about their rights, or if the majority is more forceful in their rights.
I believe that the answer to that is sitting right in front of all of us. The internet. The Wicca that used to think they were alone, or belonged to a tiny coven that frequented a little store somewhere, now belong to substantial local groups, some even international. Asatru are now able to contact some of the oldest lodges in the world in Norway and Denmark. People are discovering that they are not freaks, nor are they alone, and have come, finally, to realize they they do not have to hide.
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
Now if somebody said "I find it disgusting but not surprising. Muslims have been doing terrible things to other humans with different beliefs for centuries - all in the name of Islam and Allah....", that would be intolerant wouldn't it?
Why would it be?
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix View Post
All I can say is I see more and more denigration of those of us who consider themselves Christian...more stereotyping and more restrictions on simple expression.
Just one really quick question. What are the things that you are considering to be restrictions?
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
II am not going to say this guy is telling the truth, he may be just a whining cry baby for all I know.
That is always a possibility. I knew a young lad years ago that was raised southern baptist (I think, it was a long time ago), who decided that he didn't believe the stories anymore. So, he declared himself to be atheist. The only issue was, I think he was trying hard to convince himself of that too, because he kept telling everyone about it. And, they finally got tired of hearing it.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was telling the truth. But also, I wouldn't be at all surprised is he didn't just get on a few peoples nerves. We'll just have to wait and see..
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
Now if somebody said "I find it disgusting but not surprising. Muslims have been doing terrible things to other humans with different beliefs for centuries - all in the name of Islam and Allah....", that would be intolerant wouldn't it?
My reference in that statement was in the historical sense, which, if anyone has any knowledge of history and religion would have to agree. I'm sure Muslims, Jews and other religions have also perpetrated atrocities as well but there certainly is more data to be found regarding Christian misdeeds. So, in response to your post, no I don't think that would be intolerant - it would be historical fact. Of course, as with every statement, there will always be some who will take it personally for their own reasons but that is human nature.
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
No one is forced to enlist in the military so if there are those that think it is an encroachment of their rights, solution, don't enlist.

Perhaps they ask because of the fact that soldiers are in harm's way and, God forbid, were hurt or killed on the battlefield there are chaplains that give last rites or whatever is appropriate.
He should be commended for enlisting. His religious beliefs should not matter in his or anyone's decision to enlist. If someone asked and he told them it should not matter. It should not be used against him.
How was he supposed to know he would meet up with some intolerant bullies?
post #37 of 49
I posted that in response to the discussion of it being wrong to ask a person what religion she or he is when enlisting.

And does anyone know for sure that this guy was assigned security protection or is this just what he is saying?


But whether he was or not I will not make a decision until all the facts are in and of this date only this Specialist's side of the story is known.
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
But whether he was or not I will not make a decision until all the facts are in and of this date only this Specialist's side of the story is known.
Ah, yes, because he's only a "Specialist" he's lying? If what he's saying is true, then it is system-wide and there were no outlets for him to go to.

The military's obvious discriminatory policy towards gay men and ALL women leads me to be predisposed to believing this guy without any proof, but sadly for everyone who believes the military does no wrong, it seems there is plenty of proof that they have this time.

I have vast respect for my military, and my friends serving in it and who have died for it, but that does not mean they can do no wrong.
post #39 of 49
I can pretty much guarantee that if a prospective employer asked what religion we were during a hiring process, we would be rushing to the nearest Human Rights Board to cry foul so why does the armed forces have the right to ask that question. It really is none of their business - you are there to do a job and what God you pray to has little or nothing to do with it.

But some things are different in the US than here in Canada so I'm not sure if an employer is allowed to ask your religion. I know you have to submit to drug tests as a condition of employment in the US, whereas that is illegal here in Canada. I work for an American company but they are not allowed to ask me to submit to a drug test since I live and work in Canada.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I can pretty much guarantee that if a prospective employer asked what religion we were during a hiring process, we would be rushing to the nearest Human Rights Board to cry foul so why does the armed forces have the right to ask that question. It really is none of their business - you are there to do a job and what God you pray to has little or nothing to do with it.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but service in the military is not your run-of-the-mill 9 to 5 job. As a soldier, you can be seriously injured or killed, an highly unlikely event in the majority of civilian jobs. The "God you pray to" has a lot to do with most, not *all*, but most soldiers. Faith is an important and essential component in what gets many a soldier through incredibly stressful, dangerous days. The recognition of this is one reason why the armed services provide chaplains in the field. Soldiers may or may not seek a chaplain's counsel as they wish.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I can pretty much guarantee that if a prospective employer asked what religion we were during a hiring process, we would be rushing to the nearest Human Rights Board to cry foul so why does the armed forces have the right to ask that question. It really is none of their business - you are there to do a job and what God you pray to has little or nothing to do with it.

Because our military is not subject to those rules, thank goodness.
It has been explained in this thread why the question is asked.
Since it is an all voluntary military, it is a moot point.
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but service in the military is not your run-of-the-mill 9 to 5 job. As a soldier, you can be seriously injured or killed, an highly unlikely event in the majority of civilian jobs. The "God you pray to" has a lot to do with most, not *all*, but most soldiers. Faith is an important and essential component in what gets many a soldier through incredibly stressful, dangerous days. The recognition of this is one reason why the armed services provide chaplains in the field. Soldiers may or may not seek a chaplain's counsel as they wish.
I agree that as a soldier one can be seriously injured or killed more likely than in a civilian job, but I still maintain that they have no right to ask your religion. If the armed forces are prepared to "employ" rabbis, iman and other religious clerics for non-christian folks then OK - let them ask so they can provide the correct "chaplain" in the field. I still believe one's religion is nobody's business - in or out of the army - and asking is a violation of rights IMO.
post #43 of 49
It is not feasible to have every type of cleric on the battlefield. The clerics that are there do double duty.

Our military isn't subject to other's opinions.
post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
It is not feasible to have every type of cleric on the battlefield. The clerics that are there do double duty.
That was exactly my point. Thank you.

If one cleric does the duty for all, then it should NOT matter in any way what religion you are so the need to ask is totally unnecessary.
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I agree that as a soldier one can be seriously injured or killed more likely than in a civilian job, but I still maintain that they have no right to ask your religion. If the armed forces are prepared to "employ" rabbis, iman and other religious clerics for non-christian folks then OK - let them ask so they can provide the correct "chaplain" in the field. I still believe one's religion is nobody's business - in or out of the army - and asking is a violation of rights IMO.
I already made the point earlier in this threads that the army has chaplains for pretty much all faiths or denominations, especially in regards to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I already made the point earlier in this threads that the army has chaplains for pretty much all faiths or denominations, especially in regards to Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Exactly! So if "one size fits all", there is no need to ask what size you are IMO.
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
A major reason why they ask is in case you get wounded or killed. Your denomination is stamped onto your "dog tags" along with your name, blood type and serial number. The tags provide information to the medics (blood type) or to graves registration (in the case of death) in case a chaplain would need to administer last rites. Being a vet this is something that I never had a problem with.
Thank you for pointing this out, Bryan.

As a vet, you could speak to this better than me, but having had family members in the service, it was my understanding that because of the unique nature of the military, civilian rules in many cases don't apply. For instance, it's acceptable for soldiers to be asked about their religion (for reasons stated above), whereas that would be seen as a potentially discriminatory question in a civilian job application. Can't a soldier decide not to answer the question, or simply reply "none"?
post #48 of 49
I understand about "dog tags". Our Canadian armed forces have them as well. My dad served overseas in WWII. My dad didn't belong to any religion so I wonder what was on his dog tag unless religion wasn't included on the Canadian tags? I should get my brother to check - he has all that stuff.
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
Thank you for pointing this out, Bryan.

As a vet, you could speak to this better than me, but having had family members in the service, it was my understanding that because of the unique nature of the military, civilian rules in many cases don't apply. For instance, it's acceptable for soldiers to be asked about their religion (for reasons stated above), whereas that would be seen as a potentially discriminatory question in a civilian job application. Can't a soldier decide not to answer the question, or simply reply "none"?
Yes, as far as I can remember you don't have to declare a religion when enlisting.
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