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post #61 of 78
At the time that that was normal, girls weren't allowed to go to school. The life expectancies of people were way lower-- in their 30s, in some places. (eta: and, they were marrying boys their own age, more importantly)

We know better now, and people live much longer. 14 year old girls belong in school, not having some nasty 60-yr-old's babies.

The difference is that things used to be that way because they had to be. Now, children are being forced to live like that because of a bunch of pedophile's wishes and being told that it's a religion.
post #62 of 78
Not to mention, the young girls are just one of many women these creepy men have. I don't think you are insinuating the polygamy was the norm in this country, were you?

And those women have "options", they just refused to take them.
The old, endless, "victim" excuse gets so tiresome.

Does one ever get to stop being a victim?

Personally, I don't care if these women stay with these men if they remain childless. The victim excuse goes right out the window when they start breeding little girls for perverts.
post #63 of 78
But do we know that they ARE perverts? What makes them perverts?

I ask b/c lets look at the girls from 10 yrs old on up! They dress and act like lil ... not sure what the word is... basically they dress and act like sex goddesses... so IF these girls in *normal* society can act and be interested in premarital sex... what makes it wrong for these young girls to marry young?

NOT sayign any of this is right, its just somethign I wonder.

post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Not to mention, the young girls are just one of many women these creepy men have. I don't think you are insinuating the polygamy was the norm in this country, were you?

And those women have "options", they just refused to take them.
The old, endless, "victim" excuse gets so tiresome.

Does one ever get to stop being a victim?

Personally, I don't care if these women stay with these men if they remain childless. The victim excuse goes right out the window when they start breeding little girls for perverts.
Cindy, I seriously hope that you never become a victim and that if for some unfortunate reason you do, others will not hold you in such contempt as you have held these victims and that they will show more mercy and understanding toward you.
post #65 of 78
Slavery used to be the norm, even here in the Land of the Free. But we as a people evolved out of that norm. Women used to be no better them property. We evolved. There is a reason that the arranged marriages to very young girls is a thing of the past. We evolved. There is a reason that treating your young son like he is disposable is a thing of the past. We evolved. We know these things are wrong now. Just because we didn't used to know they were wrong, doesn't make it right.
post #66 of 78
I think mothers should protect their children and that goes for these women also.

It is a phony argument IMO to excuse these women because they "were raised that way" and they were "indoctrinated". Well, than excuse the men also, they were raised that way and they were indoctrinated also.
So, it isn't anyone's fault.
post #67 of 78
I believe that someone mentioned this earlier, but here goes. These women were raised all their lives to believe that it is a sin to disobey their husband. They endure what their community dictates because they believe they are serving God. It doesn't matter what WE tell them. They don't believe us. There is no doubt in my mind that that they are taught our laws are wrong.

I saw an interview of 2 teens that were out of the cult. They wanted to live the way we do, but they were afraid that they were sinning and were strongly considering returning to the cult. Why? What's in it for them? What's in it for these mothers?

The only reason I can come up with is they believe it is the only way to go to heaven. I can't condemn them for that. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt.
post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I believe that someone mentioned this earlier, but here goes. These women were raised all their lives to believe that it is a sin to disobey their husband. They endure what their community dictates because they believe they are serving God. It doesn't matter what WE tell them. They don't believe us. There is no doubt in my mind that that they are taught our laws are wrong.

I saw an interview of 2 teens that were out of the cult. They wanted to live the way we do, but they were afraid that they were sinning and were strongly considering returning to the cult. Why? What's in it for them? What's in it for these mothers?

The only reason I can come up with is they believe it is the only way to go to heaven. I can't condemn them for that. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt.
And the men are raised that way too, so I guess it is no one's fault.

(****It may be Bush's fault, shhhh)
post #69 of 78
I actually think that yes, many of the men are raised that way and are just as much victims as the women and children. But that's opening a whole new can of worms.

BUT I'd like to turn the whole `victim' question around and ask you Cindy, do you think there is ever a time when someone actually is a victim? When their circumstances and things that have happened to them should be and deserve to be taken into consideration? Or should we always just judge everyone the same, on the surface, with no regard to extenuating circumstances?

I agree that the victim mentality is becoming a little worn out these days, but still, do you feel that there is ever a time when it is actually relevant?
post #70 of 78
The victim thing has been done to the point where personal responsibility has taken too often a back seat. When faced with very real victims I am guessing there are people whose patience has worn thin. As human beings we want to think that we have the power to change our circumstances if given a chance. But brainwashing has nothing to do with personal responsibility because that concept is never introduced nor do these people see themselves as victims for the most part. They think they are living righteous lives, in general. They are essentially controlled from birth. It is like permanent Stockholm Syndrome where the victim begins to relate to their captor.
It is unnatural for a parent to reject their children as they do when the boys are kicked out so to me that tells me that the hold over these people's minds is extreme.

As to it being unnatural. 14 year old girls if given a chance rarely find 60 year old men particularly appealing. It is unnatural because they are not given an choice. They throw out appealing young men so that the aged child molesters can marry children.
post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC12 View Post
The victim thing has been done to the point where personal responsibility has taken too often a back seat. When faced with very real victims I am guessing there are people whose patience has worn thin. As human beings we want to think that we have the power to change our circumstances if given a chance.

But brainwashing has nothing to do with personal responsibility because that concept is never introduced nor do these people see themselves as victims for the most part. They think they are living righteous lives, in general. They are essentially controlled from birth. It is like permanent Stockholm Syndrome where the victim begins to relate to their captor.

It is unnatural for a parent to reject their children as they do when the boys are kicked out so to me that tells me that the hold over these people's minds is extreme.
Very well said.
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffysimba View Post
But do we know that they ARE perverts? What makes them perverts?

I ask b/c lets look at the girls from 10 yrs old on up! They dress and act like lil ... not sure what the word is... basically they dress and act like sex goddesses... so IF these girls in *normal* society can act and be interested in premarital sex... what makes it wrong for these young girls to marry young?

NOT sayign any of this is right, its just somethign I wonder.


If they're grown men and having sex with 12, 13, 14 year old girls, they're perverts. End. Of. Story. That's what makes them perverts. That's perverted behavior. Inexcusable, perverted behavior.

The sexualization of little girls is a huge problem in this culture. It turns my stomach to see 10 year-old girls with "Juicy" written across their bottoms. Where the h#@ are their parents? For real. I don't think an 11 year-old dressing too old for her age is her behaving like a "sex goddess." She's acting out unhealthy, destructive cultural norms without parental/adult guidance. She's not ready for sex, and she's not ready for marriage.
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I think mothers should protect their children and that goes for these women also.

It is a phony argument IMO to excuse these women because they "were raised that way" and they were "indoctrinated". Well, than excuse the men also, they were raised that way and they were indoctrinated also.
So, it isn't anyone's fault.
Were they? The cult kicks out most of the boys once they're old enough to become a threat (or presumably old enough to know it's wrong). I was under the impression that grown men who wanted to marry children could join the cult under the right conditions.
post #74 of 78
No one from outside is allowed to join. These people are all decended from 4 original families. I'm sure some boys are allowed to stay. I don't know what would make one special enough to not get kicked out. Maybe being directly related to one of the ones in charge. And well liked or something. Who knows?
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
No one from outside is allowed to join. These people are all decended from 4 original families. I'm sure some boys are allowed to stay. I don't know what would make one special enough to not get kicked out. Maybe being directly related to one of the ones in charge. And well liked or something. Who knows?
Usually it is the whim of the prophet. I am sure the reasons make no sense. Some were handsome, some were too spirited, some questioned authority, some who knows why. It is such a cruel thing to do. One of the boys ended up committing suicide. Some end up on drugs. Some end up as hustlers on the street to survive. They have no skills to survive in the outside world.
post #76 of 78
What does all of this talk about their lifestyle have to do with them launching a children's clothingl line?
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
What does all of this talk about their lifestyle have to do with them launching a children's clothingl line?
I suppose it has to do with the impetus behind the clothing line in light of recent events. Also questions about supporting them and if that means supporting the lifestyle. OR the conversation just veered into other areas. Maybe both.
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Were they? The cult kicks out most of the boys once they're old enough to become a threat (or presumably old enough to know it's wrong). I was under the impression that grown men who wanted to marry children could join the cult under the right conditions.
I always wondered about the sons. With 10 females to one male, is it like an elephant herd where the males group up on there own and come back to challenge the dominant male?
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