My Vet Says Declaw!

Gert: I know opinions are still allowed, and well, heck someones gotta stick up for them kitties

I urge you to plllleease do more research on this, ask questions and read... away from those so called vets of yours (and on that note, I would also suggest finding another vet who isn't stuck in the old ways or centered around money so much.)
There has been extensive research to show that declawing does lead to behavorial issues, I do not doubt that. And as me working towards getting my certification in animal behavoir some day, I feel very comfortable with my knoweldge to say this.
Even from this one comment you made... "Cutting off my fingers is not even close to the same as declawing."

That just shows me how missinformed you have been. Please take it upon yourself to learn about this, if you truely love your cats, you can at least do that for the good of your kitties, right?

Gert, as Angel said, we value discussion and exchange of opinion, I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me - as long as they can put up a good arguement for their case I will listen.

I would just like to pose one question to you . . . why do you think the practice of declawing is acceptable if it has actually been outlawed as illegal in other countries?

I have 3 indoor kitties who only go outside into the garden under supervision. They have scratching posts around the house and they use them. On occasions they try to use the carpet and are told NO. They don't get punished, but they understand the word no. It is no worse then teaching a child the rights and wrongs of behaviour.

My last cat addition is a stray that had been living rough for a good number of years judging by his condition. With training he has adjusted and does not damage the house. I have expensive carpets, wallpaper and furniture (antiques) but I would never consider declawing even if I could (it is illegal in the UK).

Declawing is also illegal in Germany. Our cat (and his predecessors, I might add) doesn't destroy furniture or scratch us. He uses his claws to climb his indoor cat tree, to scratch an itch, etc., i.e. to lead a normal cat life.

Okay it seems that I started something that does not want to go away. While I repect the choices that you all have made, the one I made was right for me.
I do not know why this has been outlawed by sone countries. Maybe it is as you say barbaric but I am not convinced. Sorry.
My cats do not have behavior problems. And none that came before these 5 that I have now did either. My cats have all grown old (12-17) before the passed on. My cats have not developed hip or walking problems. They all jump to get where they want to get to and land quit nicely. Their balance is good. My house has lots of windows and they can jump to any piece of furniture and follow it around to any window they want. They have all been loving and playful. They were all lap sitters and purrers. They chase balls, stuffed kitty toys. ANd maybe most of all they love each other. I did not get all 5 at once but over a period of 3 years. There has never been any problem introducing a new cat into my home.
Maybe some of the physical mentioned in other letters is from having allowing the kitty to go outside. I don't know, I only know that mine stay inside all of the time.
When I brought the last 2 kitties into the house I had decided not to delcaw. After a particularily rambunctious play time one of the other cats had a bulging eye and needed vet care. This was caused by an accidental scratch to the eye. My vet persuaded me to have them declawed. He did not do this for money or fame, he did it out of the goodness of his heart. He did not charge me for this procedure. My cats can now all play together and not get hurt.
I don't think you all are wrong for deciding not to declaw and I can repect that, now I just wish you could return the favor.

If you are not convinced that this type of operation is barbaric and unneccessary then there is little anyone can say here to change your mind. It will just turn into an endless circle of arguing and trying to justify each side of the issue.

I will just refer to the forum rule that applies here. This is rule #3

The majority of our forum members are anti-declaw. Please do not declaw your cat. Declawing is a cruel and unnecessary procedure that is outlawed in most Western countries. It causes the cat tremendous pain and often leads to major behavioral problems. Please note that the majority of cat owners find declawing to be very offensive. We encourage open discussion on all issues, but if you support declawing on the forums, expect some harsh criticism. Please learn more about alternatives for declawing here. We hope your time with us will change your views on this very sensitive issue. Hopefully, those of you with claw-related problems will find solutions by spending time in our Behavior Forum.

All our rules can be seen by clicking the rules tab in red at the head of the forums.


I do not want to lock this thread down, as it is not that far out of control. There are some inflammatory remarks made that were not entirely necessary, but the topic is a hot button one. If anyone is going to add anything, please do so in a mature manner so the learning can continue for those who might come later looking for answers.

I just wanted to add in my two cents about declawing cats. I worked at a vet, and have not only witnessed, but as part of my job, assisted in declawings. (I no longer work at a vet, and probably won't ever again, mostly because I can't handle putting animals down and declawing.)

I can tell you, you should go to a vet's office and ask to "shadow" the vet for a declawing. They literally just pull back the skin, take big dog nail clippers, and "clip" the entire joint off. The whole half of a toe just goes flying, like a nail would when you trim it. They then wrap the paws up, take the cat off of the anesthesia, and put it back in its cage to wake up.

I've also seen cats wake up after. They would shake their paws and mew so pitifully, it just broke my heart. They were plainly confused about what had happened to them, and scared. Cats are naturally agile creatures, and while they generally stumble around in the cage for awhile (yes, even after the anesthesia has completely worn off), they seem to learn to "deal" with it fairly quickly. You can tell they are still in pain, though.

Personally, I think the arguement about a cat scratching another cat's eye is like saying children shouldn't play tag, since one might accidently push another one too hard and make the other child fall down. YES, accidents do happen, but just because they can happen, doesn't mean you should amputate the poor cat's toes. It is unfortunate that as soon as you brought clawed cats home, this happened, but all of the breeders that I have been visiting in my search for a kitten do not allow their cats to be declawed. This is because they genuinely love their cats and want the best for them. Also, none of their cats showed any signs of being the worse for wear because they and all their companions still had all of their toes.

PLEASE don't do this to your cat. Their pain should not be less important than preserving your furniture. The truth is, no one knows for sure just HOW much pain declawing causes them. I think it is very wrong to subject them to this unless there is substantial scientific PROOF that declawing is painless to cats. Which, I promise, there never will be, because cats have highly ennervated paws, which is partly why they are so agile. With all these nerve endings, they must be able to feel quite a bit of pain.

Really, aren't your fur-babies just a little more important than your couch? And if not, well, I'm not going to say it, since it's not nice, but I definitely don't think very highly of that. There is a reason just about ALL breeders require that their cats never be declawed. TICA even says in their guidelines for choosing a good breeder, that a breeder should have that in their contract. Please think on this and do more research, and even consider asking breeders, since they are most likely most knowledgeable on the subject. Thanks for reading.

Gert: I'm just curious why you and other like you, don't just trim the claws by cutting them, or file them down? And there is always the option for soft paws.

I have had very many cats, and never a problem with scratching an eye out, that was a freak accident that could happen to any animal from any object, not just a cat claw.

In the future, if you continue to only have declawed cats, then please adopt one which is ALREADY declawed.

i received a recent email from the Sphynx group that i subscribed to:

The message below is a forward from Joan Miller, CFA Legislative Committee:

This Alert was sent to California cat fanciers. Since similar bans of
veterinary surgical procedures may be introduced in other states this is for your information:

Joan Miller
******************
California fanciers;

Below is the CFA letter that was faxed to all members of the Assembly
Committee on Business & Professions reaffirming opposition to CA AB 395 (bans >declawing) as amended. The committee hearing is set for next Tuesday, April 29th at 9:00 AM, Room 447, State Capitol. I will be there to testify on behalf of CFA.

Organizations and cat clubs please send a letter, on your letterhead, to be received by the Committee Consultant by TOMORROW, April 23rd, in order to be included on the opposition list. Briefly state that your organization opposes the bill, as amended on April 10th, and that you request to be listed on the analysis.

The most recent amendment (April 10) now allows declawing for "therapeutic purpose" (defined as addressing an existing or recurring infection, disease,injury or abnormal condition in the claw that jeopardizes the cat's health........). This amendment does not change CFA's fundamental position.

We object to a ban on declawing as an elective veterinary surgical procedure that can sometimes be important to the welfare of an individual cat and enable the human-cat bond to be maintained.

Cat fanciers dissapprove of routine declawing and we have for many years educated pet owners about alternatives yet we also strongly support the rights of veterinarians and pet owners to make veterinary decisions.

Veterinary medicine is continuously evolving and today surgery techniques and pain management have been greatly improved. There is now laser surgery for declawing. We are very concerned about this bill as it would set a dangerous precedence of legislators determining which veterinary medical procedures should be allowed or disallowed.

We believe that AB 395 is the beginning of an attempt to ban other elective surgical procedures such as dewclaw removal for puppies, cropping ears or docking tails of dogs. Lets fight to stop the criminalization of veterinarians and to keep veterinary decisions in the hands of the medical profession and pet owners rather than become part of the political arena with non-medical agendas.

A quick faxed letter is needed from organizations/clubs TOMORROW. Personal letters can be faxed before next Monday (fax or mail is preferred but emailis acceptable). Please make this information available at the California cat shows this weekend. Below is contact information for the Committee.

Joan Miller
CFA Legislative Coordinator
*********************************
on CFA letterhead

21 April 2003

The Honorable Lou Correa
Chair, California Assembly Committee on Business & Professions
Capitol Building, Room 6025
Sacramento, CA 95814

Attention: Chris Gallardo, Committee Consultant Fax:
916-319-2169


Re: AB 395: Veterinarians, Declawing Cats, Amended April 10, 2003 -
OPPOSITION


Dear Chairman Correa;

I am writing on behalf of the Cat Fanciers' Association (CFA) to reaffirm ouropposition to AB 395, as amended April 10th. We request that our organization continue to be included in the listed pposition.

As the largest registry of pedigreed cats in the world CFA's mission is to preserve and promote the pedigreed breeds of cats and to enhance the well-being of ALL cats. CFA is a positive force that helps to educate the general public about proper cat care, spay/neuter and responsible pet ownership. While CFA clearly disapproves of routine declawing and educates the general public concerning alternatives to declawing, we recognize that there are valid reasons for this procedure and want to assure, for the benefit of cats and their owners, that the procedure remains an option.

Declawing as an elective surgical choice can save the lives of cats. A cat who cannot be deterred from scratching people or destroying furnishings is at significant risk of being banished to the outdoors or relinquished to a shelter resulting in a shorter life span or possible euthanasia. Declawing may be a last resort solution for immunocompromised cat owners, the elderly with thin skin or those with bleeding disorders that allows them to keep their cats.

CFA opposes attempts to eliminate veterinary elective surgical procedures, as these should remain the decision of individual cat owners based on their veterinarian's judgment and advice considering the best interests of each animal and situation. AB 395 denies this pet ownership right and represents unprecedented criminalization of a lawful veterinary procedure that is safe and does not harm domestic cats when competently performed.

Any surgery, including sterilization, involves some pain or discomfort. Advances in surgical techniques and pain management have greatly improved the healing time and discomfort associated with declawing in recent years.


Alternatives to declawing, such as diversion training, claw clipping and claw covers, are also more widely known and successfully used by cat owners.

Declawing is not widely performed in California. Nevertheless it is
important for the welfare of cats and the human-cat bond to maintain the ability of cat owners to have the option of this surgical procedure beyond therapeutic purposes.

We respectfully ask that AB 395 be withdrawn or defeated.

Very truly yours,


Joan Miller
CFA Legislative Coordinator

cc. The Honorable Paul Koretz, Author
Committee Members

Angel: What are "soft paws"?

"And there is always the option for soft paws."

Just curious! Thanks!

Soft Paws website

Soft Paws

Okay, okay maybe I have been wrong! If/When I ever get more kitties I will consider the other options available instead of declawing.
I am sorry if I ruffled some feathers by giving my opinion but I did and still do believe that there are two sides to this issue.
My cats are healthy, happy and well adjusted . But most important they are truely loved.
Until this discussion I did not realize that there were so many other options. I do take the cats to the vet to have their back claws trimmed. This is something that I do not know how to do and am afraid to try.

Gert - I just wanted to say that I hope you don't feel you've been got at - declawing is a very emotive subject for many people.

It is obvious you love your cats very much and as an animal lover I do hope you continue to contribute to this site on the many other subjects that get discussed.

Thank you for that. I know now just how emotional this subject is. I like a good discoussion when both sides are heard and respected. Yes, I will continue to contribute when somethign catches my interest or if I myself need help.
Thanks again.

I agree with Yola. No one here is trying to attack you, we just honestly, truthfully believe it is in a cat's best interest to not declaw. I respect your opinion, but I do ask that you look further into the alternatives to and the risks of declawing.

I'm sure you can understand that we all just love cats and just want the best for every cat out there!

Just wanted to comment on the belief that cats experience pain differently than humans.

Now that we can better examine the brain functioning of living humans and other animals, it is abundantly clear that the nerves, neurotransmitters, and pain centers in the brains of humans and non-human vertibrates work the same way. The only difference is that humans can say "Holy cow, that hurts" and cats can't! Most veterinary training schools now acknowledge that animals feel pain just like humans and because they now know this they are in a fast hunt for effective painkillers to use with dogs and cats. In the old days we never used painkillers for pets because we didn't think they felt pain the same way we do. But, that is very old thinking! A more recently trained vet knows much better than this!

Additionally, cats are hardwired to hide their pain because if they show how much they hurt, they will be killed by preditors. Thus, they feel exactly what we would feel if clippers were used to clip off our fingers at the first joint, but they have no way to tell us what it feels like. And...yes, most cats recover well from the surgery, just like most people who have amputations recover. But, I'll bet most amputees would say they wished it never happened and that their lives would be a lot easier if they had their limbs back. I'll bet declawed cats would say the same thing if they could speak our language!

I just had my kitten Kramer (8 mos old) declawed about a month and a half ago. Today I read the article on declawing, I feel horrible for doing that to him, I had no idea. It hurts my fingers just to think about it. I have been apologizing to Kramer ever since I read the Article. I will definately not have my new kitten declawed.

I have reservations saying what I am about to, and Lord knows I don't want to ruffle anymore freathers than I already have but...
I still believe that declawing is the way to go for some situations. My cats have all been declawed and are happy, healthy, well adjusted kitties. I love my kitties dearly and would NEVER do anything to them that I thought would harm them in amyway. I wouldn't however, declaw and adult cat that might affect them strangely. Please dont anyone take offense at this, like I have before in this forum it is only my opinion and it is only different from yours...not wrong.

Hello,

i really can´t understand why people have cats if they don´t really want them as they are. Cats do have claws, thats a simple fact. And no one should have the opportunity to change such typical bodymarks. It´s a cat and not a fluffy toy. In our country it is illegal to declaw cats and thats one of the rare laws to protect animals.
Declawing cats it´s the same as you would want a dog without teeths because he could bite.
Sorry, i now this discussion was on the end...