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post #31 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Sharky addressed the taurine issue in her response. If the meat is cooked you would still have to add taurine probably.

As for a raw diet, if one decides to feed raw, it is imperative that they do their research and during preparation add the necessary ingredients to ensure a healthy cat. It's not just a simple matter of throwing down some raw meat.
Yes i know. Im well aware you dont just 'throw' some raw meat down!! Im very keen to learn more about cat food. They are fed Natures menu at the moment, Betula is an ex-breeding queen so have only had her a few months, shes 3 years old and ive weaned her off felix and royal canin, she had terrible loose stools on that which is what prompted me to research cat food. I wouldnt change her diet without being sure i was providing her with a well balanced diet.
post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by crofty View Post
Oh good

What i look for when looking at ingredients is no corn no gluten no soya no beet no garlic no onion no wheat no dairy.
You must have taurine in there whether it is added or natural. If there is a high natural chicken content including offal you will probably have enough occurance naturally.

Someone mentioned the use of corn for UTI's????!

The best way to prevent occurrence of UTI in cats, is by maintaining a diet that has low dietary levels of magnesium, less than 0.12% on a dry matter basis.

The most common cause of cat UTI is urolithiasis, the formation of stones in the urinary tract. The most common stone seen in feline urinary tract, struvite, is made up of minerals like magnesium, ammonium, and phosphate. The acidic and alkaline properties of these minerals disturb the pH level in cat’s urine, which in turn results in formation of struvite stones.

Urine pH is also influenced by the proteins present in diet and excessive intake of fish and meat can increase acidity. Cat foods that contain rich plant protein such as soybean meal can make urine more alkaline than required. If your cat’s diet contains more than the required quantity of magnesium, ammonium, and phosphate, it can lead to formation of urinary stones, or uroliths. When the diet contains more magnesium than is required to maintain body functions, the extra magnesium is passed on to the urine.

As cat diet is naturally rich in proteins, the frequency with which you feed your cat can have a direct impact on his developing UTI. Urine pH becomes alkaline after meals. If the cat has access to food all the time, he will keep on nibbling that does not let the urine pH become as alkaline as required.

Some timely prevention methods will help in keeping your pet away from the risk of UTI because if not attended to in time, UTI can lead to more severe conditions like that of infection of the kidneys and /or complete blockage of urine, ultimately leading to the death.

This article is quite interesting http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2729

As for people that eat alot of MacDonalds, thats fine if you want to risk your health, cats eat what you give them, thats why they are your responsibilty.

Ive been trying to persuade Betula and Alfie that raw is yummy.... they screw their face up at me though

You are thinking in a TRUE natural diet ie raw ... NOT the typical cat diet ...

which is dry .... dry food usually has meals which = more concentrated meat and bone which is NOT correctly balenced ... for calcium phos and mag in poultry and beef ( lamb is to a degree )... Yes fish throws it off due to PROCESSING ( ie fish is processed with bone while other meats are at least semi deboned )...

YES CORN aid s in balencing the chicken most prefer the gluten as it at least provides some additional protein .. the link you provided is a VERY GOOD BEGINNER link...

Genetics play s a BIG role in uti issues ... feeding schedule is HIGHLY debateable

Magnesium levels should NOT be as high as.12 it is .085 to .10 depending on if prior issues have been seen,...
You also do not note the role of sodium and potassium
side note MY CAPs= emphisis not anger


I have done raw , raw and cooked , strait cooked , dry and dry and canned with my kids... ask any raw ?? s you have
post #33 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
You are thinking in a TRUE natural diet ie raw ... NOT the typical cat diet ...

which is dry .... dry food usually has meals which = more concentrated meat and bone which is NOT correctly balenced ... for calcium phos and mag in poultry and beef ( lamb is to a degree )... Yes fish throws it off due to PROCESSING ( ie fish is processed with bone while other meats are at least semi deboned )...

YES CORN aid s in balencing the chicken most prefer the gluten as it at least provides some additional protein .. the link you provided is a VERY GOOD BEGINNER link...

Genetics play s a BIG role in uti issues ... feeding schedule is HIGHLY debateable

Magnesium levels should NOT be as high as.12 it is .085 to .10 depending on if prior issues have been seen,...
You also do not note the role of sodium and potassium
side note MY CAPs= emphisis not anger


I have done raw , raw and cooked , strait cooked , dry and dry and canned with my kids... ask any raw ?? s you have

Oh what do you feed your cats? I am a beginner so would love to pick your brains! I dont think i could do a completely raw diet, i do like the idea of it and ive been reading abit about it, it was purely as a treat, i have a great local farmshop. Alfie likes raw mince but they both turn their nose up at chicken.

There are so many different opinions and articles, its quite confusing!!
post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by crofty View Post
Oh what do you feed your cats? I am a beginner so would love to pick your brains! I dont think i could do a completely raw diet, i do like the idea of it and ive been reading abit about it, it was purely as a treat, i have a great local farmshop. Alfie likes raw mince but they both turn their nose up at chicken.

There are so many different opinions and articles, its quite confusing!!
LOL.. yup it can be confusing .. but I note your a human nurse from another thread ... I studied human nutrition and biology ... I think like this no two drs ever 100% agree on patient care... no diet is one size fit even most ...

I feed the cats I have Taste of the wild dry ... one is a former feral who "catches " her raw and the baby 7 months prefers cooked with his dry ... I tailor the eating to the individual ... do you know how to PM??? send me one I will go more in depth ..

Does your vet support a raw diet or a homemade one/??
post #35 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
LOL.. yup it can be confusing .. but I note your a human nurse from another thread ... I studied human nutrition and biology ... I think like this no two drs ever 100% agree on patient care... no diet is one size fit even most ...

I feed the cats I have Taste of the wild dry ... one is a former feral who "catches " her raw and the baby 7 months prefers cooked with his dry ... I tailor the eating to the individual ... do you know how to PM??? send me one I will go more in depth ..

Does your vet support a raw diet or a homemade one/??
Are you in the UK? Yes will pm you thankyou

My vet is the same as most they sell Hills I dont really trust vets advice on nutrition! Yep Im a staff nurse so know abit about nutrition but its obviously different when it comes to cats... infact think they eat better than me
post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechangingman View Post
good read!

being relatively new to cat ownership i started using the garbage our first breeder fed their cats only to quickly realise 4% meat was a complete joke,

now everything is 75% meat ( the rest being water and rice ) and all the dry food is as good as it gets...

problem is its 4 - 10 times the price so i'm sure its hard for many ( especially those with more than 1 cat!! ) to justify the cost...

Education is also pretty low - the companies selling garbage have the money to advertise on TV and vets take their nice cut of the Hills muck ( over here ) so people take for granted its good if the vet recommends it
I take it you're feeding almo nature and/or Applaws? Or Cosma? The Best By dates are usually about two years from now, so it's "safe" to buy the economy or value packs, which saves you a bit. Some German suppliers offer almo by the case - 6 x 48 cans, with free choice of the six flavors, and free shipping within Germany. You might find some similar offers in the UK.
post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Just about all dry foods will have some corn or gluten in them. I see nothing wrong with it. A combo of wet and dry food is best for most cats.

We feed Royal Canin - Urinary and a variety of canned foods (Max Cat, Iams, and Natural Balance.
I am switching my cat to Royal Canin Urinary SO, as well, on the advice of my vet. (Murray has been eating Purina One, and has done all right on it, but I have heard that isn't the best food available. Plus, Murray seems to only tolerate it rather than savor it, and he seems to like the Royal Canin better.) I also feed him Friskies Dental Diet, and the vet says that is doing good things for his teeth. Recently I started giving Murray some Fancy Feast to add some moisture to his diet, and he is loving it, though he only eats small amounts at a time.
post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrrplej View Post
I am switching my cat to Royal Canin Urinary SO, as well, on the advice of my vet. (Murray has been eating Purina One, and has done all right on it, but I have heard that isn't the best food available. Plus, Murray seems to only tolerate it rather than savor it, and he seems to like the Royal Canin better.) I also feed him Friskies Dental Diet, and the vet says that is doing good things for his teeth. Recently I started giving Murray some Fancy Feast to add some moisture to his diet, and he is loving it, though he only eats small amounts at a time.
If you could get Murray to eat a better quality wet food it would be better. FF is for cats like McDonalds is for kids - OK once in awhile but not a good diet. Unfortunately once cats get it, they get hooked on it and you many have difficulty switching them to a better quality food.
post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
If you could get Murray to eat a better quality wet food it would be better. FF is for cats like McDonalds is for kids - OK once in awhile but not a good diet. Unfortunately once cats get it, they get hooked on it and you many have difficulty switching them to a better quality food.
Well, I kind of figured I'd try Fancy Feast because he turned up his nose at other wet foods I had given him, and I thought Fancy Feast, being so "likable," would be a safer bet... and I was right. I thought maybe if I could get him into the wet-food habit with the Fancy Feast, then I might be able to switch him to a higher-quality wet food later.

In any event, he doesn't eat much of the Fancy Feast at one time, so it's more a treat than a big staple of his diet.
post #40 of 53
Since we're on the subject, is it really true that "any wet is better than no wet at all"?

I've tried the kittens on several high quality wet foods and they don't show much interest. I've looked at some of the grocery store brands, and they all seem to have things I have learned to avoid: unnamed by-products, wheat gluten, artificial colours. I have a hard time thinking that feeding them that is better than feeding them their high quality dry (Wellness/Orijen). Since, if they ate the lower quality wet, they'd likely eat less of the good stuff. It seems counterproductive.
post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrrplej View Post
Well, I kind of figured I'd try Fancy Feast because he turned up his nose at other wet foods I had given him, and I thought Fancy Feast, being so "likable," would be a safer bet... and I was right. I thought maybe if I could get him into the wet-food habit with the Fancy Feast, then I might be able to switch him to a higher-quality wet food later.

In any event, he doesn't eat much of the Fancy Feast at one time, so it's more a treat than a big staple of his diet.
That's true. If he gets used to FF as a wet food, you can always add good food to the FF - sort of trick him into eating better food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
Since we're on the subject, is it really true that "any wet is better than no wet at all"?

I've tried the kittens on several high quality wet foods and they don't show much interest. I've looked at some of the grocery store brands, and they all seem to have things I have learned to avoid: unnamed by-products, wheat gluten, artificial colours. I have a hard time thinking that feeding them that is better than feeding them their high quality dry (Wellness/Orijen). Since, if they ate the lower quality wet, they'd likely eat less of the good stuff. It seems counterproductive.
It took me ages to find a wet my 2 would eat. Finally got it narrowed down to 2 flavours of Merricks - Granny's Pot Pie and Thanksgiving Day Dinner. That's it - they won't touch anything else. But to answer your question, yes, any wet is better than no wet at all as long as they are getting the good dry that you are feeding.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
Since we're on the subject, is it really true that "any wet is better than no wet at all"?

I've tried the kittens on several high quality wet foods and they don't show much interest. I've looked at some of the grocery store brands, and they all seem to have things I have learned to avoid: unnamed by-products, wheat gluten, artificial colours. I have a hard time thinking that feeding them that is better than feeding them their high quality dry (Wellness/Orijen). Since, if they ate the lower quality wet, they'd likely eat less of the good stuff. It seems counterproductive.
IMHO yes... but realize the bottom of the barrel wets may not be really good ie all the artificial stuff which in my book is worse than dry food grains ...
Gluten is NOT a bad thing ... it is grain protein
GOOD NEWS .... many wets are avail and some at grocery or big box

meow mix ( read as they seem to be changing )
Iams ( read the labels )
fancy feast ( read labels at least 6 have NO grains or Animal by products ( I avoid named or unnamed outside of named organs )
Natural life ( avail at walmarts )
Newmans own organics
post #43 of 53
It seems here in Canada that we don't get quite the number of varieties of flavours in some brands as you do in the US. That said, I look whenever I'm in the pet food section....we'll get it eventually!

So far, mine like Merrick's better than they seem to like the others....but they still eat only miniscule amount! And, at $1.65/can (and that's by the case), alternatives would be great!
post #44 of 53
I love this type of stuff, and if anyone knows of a good feline nutrition book I would be in debt to you forever!!! One of my hobbies is reading about cat food ingredients & health, it is just so intricate and interesting!

Mine are on max cat (I change flavors everytime I buy, I but the BIG bags) dry. I know that is bad, they should be on wet... but I am only 18 and every penny I get goes towards my cats, and I have the hardest time just getting dry nutro for them. I buy stupid cheap clay litter (I know, may cause respitory issues-but it's not a covered box... may help some-can't afford anything else unless I get horrid cheap food) and I STILL have the darndest time scraping enough money up for their food. My mom thinks I am absolutly insane for spending $21+ on a bag of cat food, she tells me that Friskies is 'just as good.' UGH.

I wish I was brave enough to do raw, I am afraid of not getting it just right and my babies might get some type of deficentcy.
post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I feed the cats I have Taste of the wild dry ... one is a former feral who "catches " her raw and the baby 7 months prefers cooked with his dry ... I tailor the eating to the individual ... do you know how to PM??? send me one I will go more in depth ..
Cool! I feed Taste of the Wild too!!! I feel like I'm doing something right if I'm feeding the same as you! LOL
post #46 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
IMHO yes... but realize the bottom of the barrel wets may not be really good ie all the artificial stuff which in my book is worse than dry food grains ...
Gluten is NOT a bad thing ... it is grain protein
GOOD NEWS .... many wets are avail and some at grocery or big box

meow mix ( read as they seem to be changing )
Iams ( read the labels )
fancy feast ( read labels at least 6 have NO grains or Animal by products ( I avoid named or unnamed outside of named organs )
Natural life ( avail at walmarts )
Newmans own organics
I avoid Gluten in the ingredients because of all the cat and dog food recalls due to tainted gluten. I know it is not that glutens themselves are toxic to pets. The glutens are imported and can contain added chemicals that caused crystals to form in the kidneys of dogs and cats. Its the possiblity of these dangerous added chemicals that worries me.

I know that if the meat source of the pet food does not provide enough protein, glutens are often added to boost the protein level of the pet food. The best nutrition comes from a meat protein pet food not from a gluten protein. I avoid cat foods (and treats) that contain ‘corn gluten’, ‘wheat gluten’, or ‘soy gluten’. But then thats my opinion really based on articles i have read, dont think its worth the risk.
post #47 of 53
Wellness is at Petco now. I am pleased because it means maybe more high quality foods will follow.
I am a purist when it comes to my cats. I am a raw feeder with some canned mixed in. I did a load of research before ever embarking on it. I have a background in Nutrition so jumping to cat Nutrition was not a stretch.

http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

Above is a great resource for feeding raw and goes into the ins and outs of it. I am a cancer survivor so optimal health is a very big issue for me. I lost a cat to FIP and experiencing that ordeal led me to researching cat food even more. His previous owners were feeding him horrible food as well as bologna and ham chunks.

I make my own raw food and I buy raw food. My litter boxes do not stink, their breath does not stink, their coats are silky, their eyes bright and for the most part at their optimal weight. Except for my treat stealer who put on an extra pound gobbling up treats. They use the box less which evens out the higher cost of food which in the end is not that much more expensive.
I already read ingredients that go into my body so it was second nature to read their labels as well.
I only buy grain free foods. Absolutely no dry kibble at all. Even their treats are mostly meat and I have gotten stricter on that.
My vet is a raw food believer and feeds her own cats the same diet I do.
If you are considering raw then research and decide a plan of action to get them on it. Mine took to it rather easily.

I think it is a good thing that we talk about this stuff with each other. That is why we come here.
post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
Since we're on the subject, is it really true that "any wet is better than no wet at all"?
I was told a told a resounding YES to that question when I took my cats to a cat vet a few years ago. She said Friskies/Fancy Feast were fine if that's all my cats would eat for wet. Because it was better than no wet at all.

I feed Fancy Feast, Friskies, and Meow Mix for wet foods. One of my cats won't eat anything else for wet. I leave a measured amount of dry food out for snacking between meals. I sometimes grab some Authority Chicken Pate for my other cat who doesn't always like having Purina/Meow Mix wets.

Our current vet, who is also specialising in feline health, wanted to make sure my cats were getting wet food in their diets at their health checks. She didn't say that we needed to change brands (which Nabu wouldn't do anyway).
post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
It seems here in Canada that we don't get quite the number of varieties of flavours in some brands as you do in the US. That said, I look whenever I'm in the pet food section....we'll get it eventually!

So far, mine like Merrick's better than they seem to like the others....but they still eat only miniscule amount! And, at $1.65/can (and that's by the case), alternatives would be great!

I hear that! I pay $1.69 per can and I buy 2 cases at a time which, with taxes added comes to almost $92.00. Every so often I'll buy a different brand to try but they turn their noses up and it's back to Merrick's again.
post #50 of 53
Just wanted to give some advice to my UK/Irish friends on here - we order all of our food from zooplus.co.uk. Great prices, delivery charges are set at one price (none if over £29 or something) and very quick and reliable. We ordered our dry food from there about a month ago because the pet shop here in Ireland stopped stocking our good quality dry stuff (ugh). We are going to order some wet from there as well (Cosma) as soon as they get a restock of their bulk and after this weekend (going back to the UK for a birthday party).

This feline nutrition stuff has me obsessed. I am obsessed with human nutrition (raised by a dietician), so it is understandable - but it can be really disheartening that here Ireland I can't get any really good quality cat food at my pet shop. When I was back in the US visiting my parents, I went with them to a pet shop and was amazed by the quality/variety available. Grr.
post #51 of 53
I can't find much of a problem with what goes into most canned cat foods.
post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaParr View Post
I can't find much of a problem with what goes into most canned cat foods.
Canned is EASIER to find a good one ... some exist in the grocery level ... but you do have to read ... one that is a common grocery one says PURE and NAtural yet is preserved by nitrates and BHA/BHT
post #53 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaParr View Post
I can't find much of a problem with what goes into most canned cat foods.
Most of the popular brands like whiskas and felix i have big problems with, they are awful. I think there are however alot more good quality wet foods, its very difficult to find good dry food and i havent found one that you can buy here over the counter. Its hard to find decent kitten wet food, there seems to be a shortage of natures menu kitten at the moment so am feeding applaws kitten for alfie.
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