Parents of 12-Year-Old Vegan Girl Who May Face Charges

/// adults can make choices and do research ... children need ADULTS that will CARE for THEIR needs

I'm not a big fan of a vegan diet, but I'd have to suggest that the government pay just as much attention to obese toddlers living on McDonald's and various other junk food.

They're both harmful.

Just curious but why the government?

It's amazing what some people are capable of doing in the name of their beliefs. It's like don't confuse me with the facts. It is possible for an adult to be healthy with a vegan diet provided they do their research and make sure they get all the nutrients they need but I don't believe it is possible for a growing child to be healthy on a vegan diet. It is possible with a vegetarian diet that includes dairy but not a vegan diet.

It's completely possible to be a healthy vegan kid (I know a few vegan families), the parents just need to know what they're doing. These parents obviously didn't, and IMO should be charged with neglect.

There is nothing inherently unhealthy with a vegan diet for adults or children, but admittedly it seems to attract weird hippies with "I can live on sun rays alone" -delusions. Dumb people.

We are vegetarians (or I was before I got pregnant). Max used to be a vegan.

We will not impose anything like vegetarianism or veganism on our child. Of course it's up to the parents to raise their child with the values and ethics that are important to them, but something like diet should not be compromised in children and I believe that growing children need to eat meat in their diets.

There is no reason we can't buy organic or ethically raised meat for her to eat (I mean, we do that anyway) and although beef is an environmental hazard, there are ways to get around that, too, to a degree.

She can make her own choice when she's old enough. There have been too many stories of malnourished children or children who die because of the silly diets imposed by their parents

I am a wanna-be vegan myself (I can't give up nachos or pizza). I haven't done much research on children and a vegan diet because I don't have a child right now.

The research I have done seems to indicate that calcium can come from many sources other than dairy. The Chinese eat very little dairy. Meat is not a good source of dairy. Perhaps the parents were not careful vegans.

My daughter chose to be a vegetarian when she was 3, changed her mind when she was 5, and then became a vegetarian permanently when she was 9. She's 31 now and healthy.

I'm confused by the two babies that starved to death. Six-weeks-old is still of an age to be nursing. The other is described as a baby. Babies could be on a soy-formula diet so I don't see how either of the baby's parents being vegan played into it.

BTW I thought all the hippies were way too old to have children this young.

I don't think these parents were doing it right. I've met kids raised on an all vegan diet, and none of them looked sick or had any bone issues. Me thinks these people were feeding her what they *thought* was a vegan diet, and she suffered because of it.

I'm just curious and admit I know little to nothing about vegetarian diets, but if being vegan is so healthy, why would you not continue during pregnancy. If it is really healthy it would be good for the baby would it not?

I'm also curious how beef is an environmental hazard. Can you explain that for me.

I'm seriously not being a smart-a$$ here, I would honestly like to know. I just happen to love most vegetables and eat plenty of them, but I also eat meat.

The way that ethics of eating meat was explained to me by a vegan was that it is an inefficient way of using the food that is available. It takes a lot of grain to bring livestock to market. A lot more people could be sustained with the grain used for the livestock than can be sustained with the meat from the animals.

I'm one of those people who believes that the human digestive system was designed to eat meat, although nowhere near as much as is typical in the US.

I'm also sure it's possible to design a healthy vegan diet that will fulfill the dietary needs of even a growing child, possibly using supplements.

But I'm with boringjen about the comparison between an undernourished 12-year old with a bone disorder and a morbidly obese child in the US. Both are the result of neglect and both cause long-term health problems for the child.

My sister is a dietitian (MS,RD, etc) and was vegetarian for 15 years. When she got pregnant, she started craving meat, and started eating it again. It's not a matter of it being healthy or not, for her, more like the pickles-and-ice-cream phenomenon. But it wasn't a decision made on the basis of "needing" to eat meat. When I start planning on having children, she's going to help me plan my diet accordingly-- you do need more protein (and everything else) when you are pregnant, although you only need 500 extra calories a day.

I have no problem with someone that doesn't eat meat, but to only live on vegetables and not milk, eggs, or some fish is wrong IMO. There are certain things our bodies need that is produced by food other then vegetables.

That poor child could have never suffered if she had been given the proper food/vitamins !

Also humans are omnivorous - we are supposed to be eating both meat and vegetables. We are not like cats/dogs that eat mainly meat; nor are we rabbits who only eat vegetables

These people are as guilty as the ones who only feed their kids junk - cookies, chips, fries. You don't have to be a nutritionist to raise a healthy child, but a little common sense and a consult with a doctor of what you need to do to supplement any special dietary needs are necessary.

You beat me to the punch, Katie. I was wondering about the relevance of this too. Starving a baby to death has nothing to do with the eating habits of the parents, unless they were trying to force a carrot down the kid's throat. I understand how vegans feel about cow's milk, but surely breast feeding is still acceptable. If that isn't natural, I don't know what is!

I'm sure you're right about the original hippies being past child-bearing age, but there are a lot of younger people who adopt the "hippy" lifestyle (or what they perceive it to be). There were hippies in my high school, and I graduated less than 20 years ago. There are plenty of hippies in Boulder, of all ages. Of course, those hippies also generally don't believe in bathing. I don't know if that was part of the original movement or not. Unfortunately, that's what we (people around Boulder, but not a part of it) tend to think of with hippies. Sadly, that's also why I can't wear my favorite scent (Patchouli), because the non-bathers think they can cover their BO by dousing themselves with it.

When properly planned, etc, a vegan diet is healthier than most people's. There are no essential vitamins/minerals/etc that you can't get anywhere but animal products, if your body is healthy and working properly.

And vegetarians don't eat fish, either. That would make them pescatarians, that is, not vegetarian.

I'll have to agree with the other Omnivores here..that's what we are designed by nature to be, not only with our digestive system but our teeth. If we were meant to be vegan, we'd have teeth like horses.
I also agree that livestock takes a huge toll on our environment, probably more than many people realize. Google "Livestock's Long Shadow" if you want to read about it. But I blame people for that. Many of us have no clue how to balance anything, let alone a healthy diet, & ignorance is usually passed on to the unfortunate children.

Because for so many, vegetarianism and veganism is an ethical and environmental choice, whether or not we were `made' to eat meat is entirely irrelevant, and doesn't really enter into the minds of most people who choose not to eat it.

I agree that humans are omnivorous and that is our genetic heritage. I like meat, I enjoy eating it. However, my reasons for becoming vegetarian had nothing to do with that. I didn't feel it was right to continue to eat meat and eggs and milk that came from animals that were exploited, and suffered greatly during their lives and then slaughters to bring me food that I can live without or find alternatives to.

So it wasn't a `health' choice or a `we shouldn't eat meat' choice - it was a purely ethical choice based on my disagreement with modern farming practices and the rearing and killing of livestock to produce meat, the conditions that battery chickens live in to produce eggs, and the same for dairy cows.

In terms of why stop being vegetarian whilst being pregnant (I was never a vegan - I couldn't give up marshmallows or honey or cheese and I know that's hypocritical - it's something I struggle with internally) I am not disciplined enough with the hours I work and everything else I do and the toll that being pregnant takes on my body to provide myself with a diet adequate to cover what I'm missing out on in meat and dairy. When I wasn't pregnant this didn't bother me so much because it was just me to worry about, but now that I am, I want my child to have the best possible start in life and as I felt I couldn't give the attention required to eating a diet that made up for a lack of meat and dairy.

The meat that we eat is organic, and ethically raised, and whilst I have had more cow's milk since I've been pregnant it is easy to get your hands on calcium-enriched soy milk etc so really my only change is that I've included some red meat back in my diet, and I don't really overdo it. Plus I just prefer the taste of soy milk, actually, so that one is easy.

I still never eat any pork or lamb. I don't eat baby animals and I don't eat pork because the pork industry is the worst of all in terms of animal cruelty and I can live without ham and bacon for the rest of my life as a result of that, easily.

As for the environment, the number one way that we can help our environment and help stop global warming is to stop eating beef. It is more destructive to the environment than driving a car. It takes approximately 169 megajoules of energy to produce 2.2 pounds of beef (the equivalent of 4 average-sized steaks or nearly 9 quarter-pound burgers). This is the same amount of energy that would be consumed by leaving a 100-watt bulb burning for 20 days.

One-third of the energy consumed goes into producing and transporting the animals' feed.

In addition to energy consumption and greenhouse emissions, animal agriculture produces a great amount of pollution and consumes substantially more water than plant agriculture. Some of this effect arises merely from the fact that eating animals is less efficient than eating plants a single animal must consume vast quantities of plants before it is slaughtered, which means that all the energy, water and other resources used to produce those plants are ultimately going to the production of a much smaller quantity of food.

And cows produce methane - a greenhouse gas which is far, far more hazardous to the environment than carbon dioxide (25 times more hazardous, to be exact). One cow in it's lifetime can produce between 250 and 500 litres of methane gas daily. Cows are responsible for almost half of the methane emissions produced worldwide.

Like global warming itself, this is not speculation or a contested science. These are the facts of the beef industry. Therefore when people tell you they are vegetarian or vegan or simply don't eat beef for environmental reasons, this is why!

Phew!

I just wanted to add to that mammoth and gargantuan post (lol) that you don't even have to cut out beef entirely. Just eating one less beef meal per week would have a significant positive effect on the environment. Cool, huh?

Charges "may" be pending? The social work department has NOT started a case??? What will it take for the authorities to move more quickly????

Ok lets look at it this way. All the people in the world decided to not eat meat. HOWEVER, dogs and cats eat meat - so wouldn't you wind up killing the cattle, chickens, fish for them to eat??? Dogs and cats cannot become vegetarians too

What difference does it make as to who is eating the meat - us or our pets?

You can choose what you feed your pets. Our dogs eat organic food that is manufactured locally. It's not even really more expensive than the food they were eating before.

And again, killing and eating meat is not the issue. Keeping cows and chickens and pigs and sheep in tiny little cages for their entire lives, where they can't turn around, lie down, see the outdoors or perform any of their natural behaviours, and pumping them full of steroids and hormones is.

It makes no difference whatsoever `who' is eating it. It's how it's raised and gets to us that is the issue for most vegetarians.

I'm not much of a meat eater and have actually considered becoming a vegetarian. But vegan? I would choose death over a life without cheese!!!

Yeah, I couldn't be a vegan. I SHOULD be, but giving up some kinds of cheese during my pregnancy has been hard enough. I certainly couldn't give it up for life and that is SO hypocritical of me, I know.

Also - honey, marshmallows, chocolate - there are animal products in nearly everything. I wish I was a good enough person to be a vegan, and I'm trying to get there, I really am!

You made me laugh with ths. Yes, I was a hippie way back in the day, but we always took baths. Even during the official water shortages in 70s California.

I assume these hippie-style kids are doing what they think is right to save water. It's still pretty funny, though. I'm glad I'm not one of them. Then again, maybe it'll turn out to be a great natural method of birth control.

I would give anything for a slice of pizza but my daughter is allergic to gluten and dairy. I am mildly as well so we stick to her diet. I don't want her to feel deprived so we can complain together.

You can be a vegan and be healthy but you actually need know what you are doing and be prepared to take supplements. I was one for 5 years but I have a background in nutrition and cooking. Veganism is great short term for healing some health issues but a diet that includes some animal protein is optimal. Not as much as people usually eat but a 3 or 4 times a week is enough.
This is girl was not on a vegan diet so much as being starved of vital nutrients. Her parents were idiots and abusive. You can get enriched soy, rice or various nut milks that have vitamin D added as well as calcium.

well, it'd certainly work for me!

Good question.

The article is about the government pressing charges. I said the government should pay just as much attention. In my haste, I left out the part where they should butt out in general.

But, fair is fair. If they're going to press charges against vegan families but simply continue wringing their hands over all these fat little kids with myriad health problems, I'm calling BS. You can't go after one and not the other.

Plus, it's Scotland. The U.S. Constitution doesn't apply there, and I don't know their laws intimately enough to even ponder the legal issues involved.

Because if 10% of the population that currently eats meat was the only part that continued eating meat, only 10% of the production would be necessary.

Supply and demand?