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Decisions (long)

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Mark stopped by, tonight. He got out of rehab, today. He's going into an aftercare program, in Florida for three months. While there, he's supposed to learn how to stay away from drugs and the kinds of people that he's been hanging with. He'll also get vovational training. Unfortunately, he won't be here, when the babies are born. Tonight, he told me about some of the stuff and people he's been involved with. It was worse than I thought. If had known, I would have worried, much more than I did. As he was leaving, we both broke down and cried and I've been crying, most of the time, since he left.

The problem is, I don't have anyone to talk to. Bill and I are barely speaking and, then its just about the pets, buying groceries, etc.

I began sleeping on the couch, four weeks ago. The first night was because Bill was snoring so badly. I woke up, during the night and went to bed. In the wee hours, he shoved me out of bed and I went back to the couch. The next night, he shoved me out, again. I gave up and have been on the couch, ever since.

At the moment, I can't afford to move out, on my own. As soon as I find a job, it looks as though I'm going to have to. Since my divorce I don't have the emotional wherewithal, for any type of conflict. Having Mark to worry about hasn't helped.

I don't know what went wrong, with Bill, any more than I know what happened to my marriage. I wish that SOMEBODY would tell me what I did wrong. He hasn't said anything and I just can't bring it up. I don't think that I can handle a confrontation.

Tonight, Bill saw that I was crying and didn't say a word. Time was, he couldn't stand to see me cry and would comfort me. Looks as though I've made another bad choice of men. Story of my life.

I can't go to my parents, again. They've got their hands full, raising three teenage grandkids and my brothers are useless.

What I realy need is for someone to put their arms around me and let me cry this all out. This way, I can at least cry it all out.

Sorry about the length but I'm hurting.
post #2 of 45
Boy, Cindy, sorry to see you hitching a ride on my bus. I was surprised to read about the problems with Bill. I had no idea! Well, sweetie, no matter what has caused the problems, he needs to learn how to communicate, or it will never get solved.

I'll say this here for the first time, as well. I'm glad Mark is going to the rehab in Florida. I thought it was a good idea the first time it was brought up, but others seemed to think the other way. I realize he won't be there for the babies' birth, but if he can't stay clean in the long run, he isn't doing anybody any good.

I know this must be a difficult time for you. Let yourself cry, but stay strong. You will find a way to work things out. If this old broad is still alive and kickin', anybody can do it.
post #3 of 45
OMG Cindy!!!!!!! I am SO sorry to this!!!! I thought you and Bill got along so well!!! Maybe he is having some other problems and is just taking it out on you without really meaning to. I wish there was something I could do or say to make you feel better!!!! I wish I lived closer so I could come over and talk to you in person and give you a HUGE hug!!!!!! **HUGS** You can talk to us anytime about this, we are always here for you!!! This is breaking my heart to hear how much pain you are in!!!! My prayers are going up for you tonight!!!! I'm sure you have already tried sitting down with Bill and asking him what is going on.....men are so hard to understand sometimes....when my husband and I were first married he couldn't stand to see me cry either...things change sometimes I guess. I hope things will work out for you two!!!!! Keep us posted, I am worried about you!!!!!!!!!
post #4 of 45
Oh Gal,

I am so sorry you are hurting. Your account brought me back to a time almost 20 years ago when my marriage was dissolving around me. I was so scared wondering how I was going to survive without him, (he had me programmed well) Marriage takes work, and when one person decides to stop working at it, then there is little anyone can do. I missed all the subtle signs when we were in trouble, so when the bigger signs began to roadblock the way there was little to do but step aside, and trust in God to guide me, and He did.

If you need to talk email me or PM me I have wide shoulders and have taken this rough path as well. I was fortunate to have a good support system- but if you don't have that where you live, you certainly have it here on this board.
post #5 of 45
Cindy, the best I can do is a cyber hug, but I hope it helps a little.

Communication is the key with any relationship. It doesn't have to be a confrontation or an ultimatum. Just tell him that you want to talk. Heck, even start it out by talking about Sam and Mark and the babies since at one time he was proud to be a new Grandpa. Open the lines of communication and see if there is any way to salvage it, and if there isn't at least you can leave on a good note with some understanding.

Cindy, like Debby I wish I could come over and give you a big hug and a shoulder to cry on for a while. You do have a big support system, here. We're your friends and will support you no matter what.
post #6 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone. I think that I'm having mid-life crisis: no job, worried about Mark, this mess, with Bill, my hair's going grey and I'm going to be a grandmother. I'm only 45!

I am SO tired of starting over.

Needless to say, I have trust and rejection issues. Guess that's why I can talk, here and not to Bill. I'm afraid that I'll hear, "I don't love you anymore." When I heard that, from my ex, I came very close to doing something irrevocable and I'm not over that pain, yet.

For over 30 years, I've been fighting with depression and, sometimes, it wins. I had a pretty good defensive wall built up but 12 years of love and security took that down and I haven't been able to get it back. Alcohol doesn't do the job and antidepressants put me to sleep. I've always had to tough it out and I'm finding out that I'm not so tough anymore.
post #7 of 45
Communication is the key with any relationship. It doesn't have to be a confrontation or an ultimatum. Just tell him that you want to talk.
Gosh I really don't know what to say other than it sounds like the two of you need to talk. And I would probably be best to remove yourselves from your current surroundings first. Between the two of you sleeping apart and the stress of other family members, both wiegh heavily on situations like this.
My boyfriend and I broke up about a year ago and I moved into a hotel for a week. He came over almost every night and we just talked. It helped alot to clear the bad vibes in our apartment and to start fresh. We communicated more in that one week than we ever did before and since.

post #8 of 45
After all the advice above me. I just want to give you a big {{{HUG}}}.
post #9 of 45
Hi Cindy,

I know we don't know eachother well, but from reading your past posts, you, like everyone else here, seem to be a very loving and caring lady. So I want to let you know that I'm going to be praying for you and wishing you all the best.

I can't really give you any advice. Mostly because I'm young (21) and have never been married. And while I think I've been through some really rough stuff relationship wise, I'm sure you guys would laugh at my stories and tell me I have much more to go through. So, instead of trying to give advice I'll just give you *hugs* and listen.

If there is anything I can do, no matter how small or big, don't hesitate to ask. I'll do anything I can help any member here. TCS is like a 2nd family.

Keep your head up, and don't ever be afraid to vent. It's not good to keep any emotions bottled up. And I can't think of any other place in the world with people more caring and loving to vent to than those right here at TCS.


post #10 of 45
I'm pretty new here, but felt really badly, when I read your sad post. I have been through a divorce and felt so, so low afterward too. You are in a tough relationship now, and I am so sorry that you are in so much pain. It IS good that he is going into follow-up care like that. If he stayed at home now, he would probably go back to what he was doing before--so there would be NO improvement there. It is NOT unusual, for a guy not to want to talk about painful things, and relationship problems. All anyone has to do, is listen to guys talking together. Even if they both know that the other one has big problems, they will joke around and talk about sports!!(ANYTHING, But what they need to talk about!!!!) My guess is, that Mark is also feeling VERY guilty, for putting you through, all he has put you through, and is feeling about as low as a man can feel. So will he sit down and voluntarily talk about it, and pain, and separation, and emotions?? Probably not!! That is SO like a man!!! So, if there is ANY way you can just say, "You know, before you leave, we really need to talk" and ask if you can talk right then and there. Because, even though you are hurting so much too, if you don't get some issues resolved, they will remain that way, and you will never have closure. You will always wonder, "What if?" So, you need to do this, and it does not HAVE to be a confrontation either. YOU have the power to keep it on a low key, and just get the reasons out there. As far as anti-depressants. My DD was on Zoloft (and is now on Paxil) But they made her sleepy too. So, she started taking it at night, and not only did she sleep better, but her depression lifted--as did her feelings of self-worth. Alchohol, in this situation, would only be self-medicating. Zoloft and Paxil are wonderful medications, to help with acute depression (My DD was in college, and she got so low, that she almost did herself in. You would not know this is the same person today!) If a person has an imbalance of Seratonin (a normal brain chemical) it can lead quickly, to acute depression. I don't feel it is any different to take a medication to level out a chemical imbalance in the brain, than I do, if someone were diabetic and their Pancreas was not producing enough Insulin. They take medication, to even it all out. So, if a person needs it, they need it...and that is all!
I am sending {{{HUGS}}} and am telling you to STAY STRONG. You do have the power over your own life--so take that power and make your life a good one now! It is NOT too late!! Do not let life or others, victimize you anymore!! You can be a strong woman with the courage of your own strength.
post #11 of 45
Cindy - I was so taken aback when I read this very sad post. The way you've always talked about Bill was with affection, warmth and love, and I was deeply impressed by the kind and loving way in which he treated you also.

You really do need to talk to him. You are thinking the very worst at the moment, you are preparing yourself for the words 'I don't love you anymore'. And quite hontestly, that will be as bad as it gets - and then at least you'll know and can make your own plans.

However it may not be that at all. Bill may be worried about something, his health, his role to play in your son's new family, whether you love him or not?

There may be a hundred reasons why he's acting cold towards you. I know it is SO difficult to sit down and talk - but if you do you will reach a resolution one way or the other, and after that things will get easier.

I'm so sorry you've been going through all this crap - I wish you all the strength in the world to get through this.
post #12 of 45
Thread Starter 
Didn't sleep much, last night and Rowdy got me up, at 4:15.

I've been going over my finances and, if I can land a job, this month, I'll be OK on my own. I'll have to get a full-time one, though. May will be my last alimony check and I can use that, for deposits, etc. All of the utilities are in Bill's name so I'll be starting from scratch. I'll try to find an apartment, with utilities included. The only extra will be cable, Internet and phone.

The cats can go with me but it isn't feasible, to keep the dogs in a one-bedroom apartment. Bill will take good care of them and they have this big backyard. I'll miss them.

I didn't tell Mark any of this. He's got enough to deal with and doesn't need to worry about me.

I really DO love Bill but I can't go on, like this.
post #13 of 45
Cindy,First of all prayer& hugs,Second,please sit down with Bill and try to get him to open up,and listen to all he is saying,& then you need to talk to him,and he need's to listen to you! No marriage will last if the partner;s do not listen as well as talk!I have been married almost 30 year's[not braging] making a point,we have had our up's & down"s,but I can say we have learn to talk & listern to each other.There has been time's when we would get so mad we would't talk for day's,but that was not the way to handle anything ,we learned to sit down and talk it out right away!! I do not know you except for here,but I get the vibe you are a strong women you will handle this and move past this!Hang tough and cry when you need to! And alway's know you have friends here and can rant all you need to!And PM me if you want to .Sherral
post #14 of 45
Cindy - I am so sorry you are going thru such a rough time! I am keeping you in my prayers and I hope that whatever is bothering Bill, he will be able to work thru it and talk to you about it. If not, you are a strong woman and you have grandchildren who are going to depend on you to be there for them. They will help to keep you whole. I am keeping you in my thoughts and sending a big hug from Toronto!
post #15 of 45
cindy - i am so sorry all this is happening to you right now. hugs and support to you. i feel i need to echo what everyone else is saying. a gentle confrontation is in order. please tell bill that you sense a change in him and if his feelings have changed you need to know so you can deal with the issues between the two of you.
post #16 of 45
Oh Cindy...we are here for you!!! I thought about you all day today!!!! I know how you feel, really I do....if you want to talk, just PM me.
post #17 of 45
I'm so sorry Cindy. I wish I could do something to help. You'll be in my prayers. ((HUGS)) Please talk to Bill, it may be something that the two of you can work out. I've never been married, but I'm engaged, and from my limited experience, men are about the least astute, tuned-in creatures on the planet! But, when someone clues them in, they can at times do wonders to redeem themselves. I really hope everything works itself out for you!
post #18 of 45
I am sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. I can only say what others have said, talk to Bill. You always talked about what a wonderful guy he is, maybe he is going through some problems now, too. Let him know how you feel, and try to find out what is going on with him. I hope it works out for you.
post #19 of 45
I am so very sorry. A close friend of mine is going through the same thing right now - he didn't even realize there was a problem, though, until his wife of 20 years asked for a divorce 2 weeks ago. Come to find out she thought there was a lack of communication, and he was completely oblivious to the fact.

If you don't talk to Bill you won't know anything... maybe he needs to talk but doesn't know how to start?

Sending you comforting thoughts, prayers, positive energy and great big cyber hugs.
post #20 of 45
Hey girl, I'm so sorry for what you're going through, but, Communication Is Key! Without that, even the best relationships can fail. I like the idea of taking yourselves out of the apartment where the air is filled with tension, that environment's not going to make it easy at all. I also like the idea of starting the conversation by talking about something else, that, will at least get you two talking. Good luck girl! {{{{{HUGS}}}}}
post #21 of 45
I'm so sorry you're going through all this. The 40s can be a challenging time in the best of marriages with most women going through the perimenopause stage and when you're under a lot of stress it can amplify the symptoms. My dh and I went through this. I didn't know about the perimenopause stage and that it can last 10 years. I was a pain to live with and didn't realize it until we started having problems and started talking about it more. I didn't know why I wasn't my old self until I started reading up on the subject. On top of it, my adrenals are shot which makes my stress tolerance low and my energy level low and my symptoms worse.
Maybe you're going through it and he senses the change in you, but doesn't realize what's going on and interprets it as something else. There's a book called 'What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Perimenopause' if you want to learn more about it. I'm glad I did. It affects every woman differntly. Some breeze right through it, others struggle through it. Stress like you're going through can make it worse.
Have you considered counseling to help get to the bottom of things without it escalating into a fight? I hate to see a marriage end without giving it every chance to work.
I wish you the best and hope that things work out for you in the long run, whichever way it goes.
post #22 of 45

Cindy, I simply do not accept this. You cannot just plan your escape without saying ANYTHING! If it is too painful to talk, WRITE! Hand him a letter. SOMETHING.

Dang girl - Bill loves you!!!! Something didn't just change "SNAP" in a few weeks! What you've said is going on is obviously painful and uncomfortable, but Cindy, 12 years with Bill gone - just like that? This is the time to FIGHT all of those defenses that are hammering away at you. I don't know Bill's background, but there may be SO MANY reasons he's clammed up. Please don't let him go without a fight!

Bill might not have said anything about your crying because of Mark. He might have felt you needed to be alone. Maybe he got some bad news about himself medically or something, and he's trying to "spare" you the hurt by pushing you away. A million reasons are flooding to my mind, I just don't know the circumstances well enough. I just know that what we've heard here is that he loves you and you love him, and whatever weirdness going on right now has a reason that MOST LIKELY is so fixable!!!!

But you can't fix it if you don't try.

So if saying something is too difficult, sit down and write a letter. Tell him how much you love him and how painful this is. Make it three sentences.

Dear Bill,

I love you very much. I don't know what went wrong, but this is very painful. I don't want to hear that you don't love me anymore, just let me know if I should leave or if there is someplace we can start to fix this problem.


But as you so know, you have to make yourself vulnerable when you are in love. To make it work can be very painful. But that man worshipped the ground you walked on, and it didn't just go away. There is something else going on. Please don't just plan your escape!

I am so, so, so, so, so sorry, Cindy. I don't mean to be all bossy and opinionated. I certainly don't know enough to tell you what to do. I just know this is too strange, and it seemed like you had such a wonderful, wonderful thing.

I know there has been a lot of hurt in your life, and it is because of that that I am afraid that your defenses have shot up, and I just want to make sure you see that, so that you can make the conscious decision to leave them there and make your plans, or fight them and face the pain of trying to communicate with him, whether in writing or talking. What you had was so wonderful - isn't it worth facing the pain of attempting to find out what's up? How can that be worse than the pain of just leaving - and having to start over again?

But like I said, I just don't know enough to know if that is the case. I'll repeat myself though - what you had seemed so incredible, and from what I heard it sounds like it's worth more pain to find out what happened before just leaving.

Cindy, my heart aches for you. I wish I could give you a giant huge hug, and then smack both you and Bill on the head.

post #23 of 45
Thread Starter 
There seems to be a bit of confusion.

Bill and I aren't married and we've been together for 20 months.

Almost two years ago, I came home from work, to find that my husband, of 12 years, had deserted me. He took off with a "friend" of ours, who he'd been chatting on the Internet with. You can see why I have trust and abandonment issues.

I don't know how this is going to work out. Maybe writing a letter is the way to go. When I try to talk, I cry and become incoherent.
post #24 of 45
Laurie is wise beyond her years. Cindy, write a letter to him. Maybe write two....one for yourself to get all your emotions straight, and one to give him. Laurie is also right, what you two have is something that doesn't happen every day. You said yourself that you DO love him, so don't just walk away without a fight. There are a ton of things that could be going on with him, it could be as simple as miscommunication. Maybe he thinks you are mad at him because you haven't been sleeping with him anymore, but he doesn't know what HE did wrong. The only way to find out is to communicate again. If you can't talk, write. Hand him the note and see what happens.
post #25 of 45
Dear Cindy,
I am so sad to read about your problems. Sadly I can´t offer you any help except for beeing here. I have been on this board regularily for such a short time, but I have had the feeling that you are a strong, loving woman.
I think the idea of writing a letter is a good idea, both for Bill and for yourself. Some years ago when I was going through a very hard time in a breakup, I wrote a diary, just everythin I was feeling, and made me see things clearer.
The others are so right - don´t quit without a fight for your lives together!
I am sending you the biggest hug a can and hope times will get better soon.
post #26 of 45

I am praying for you and Bill. I know from what you've said that you've been through a lot, and I pray that you don't have to go through any more pain, physically, mentally, or emotionally. Please don't give up! I'll agree with everyone here and say that communication is important, but whatever you do decide to do.. I and everyone else here will be behind you and we'll support you.

post #27 of 45
I am still praying things will work out....is there any change? I think writing a letter is a good idea..I do that sometimes when I am so angry and frustrated I can't say what I feel without saying all the wrong things.
post #28 of 45
Thread Starter 
OK, I did it - wrote a letter and left it, for him. When I got home, yesterday, we finally talked.

He thought that I was mad at him and I thought that he was mad at me. He didn't realize, that he had shoved me out of bed. It seems that he hasn't been sleeping well and has been having bad dreams. I can sympathize - I have nightmares and have been known to thump on him, in my sleep.

Things are bad, at work, too. Bill is having to do his job and a lot of other people's, as well. He hasn't had a raise, in nearly 5 years and, at 58, looking for a new job isn't feasible. Besides, he's not 100% vested, in his 401(K), yet. The company has quit contributing to that, too. He'll be vested, soon though and he's going to do something with that.

Anyway, I'm off of the couch and back in bed. The few times, that I did wake up last night, Bill's arms were around me. I'm pretty sure that HE slept pretty well.

I want to thank everyone, for your support. I was getting pretty frazzled, there.
post #29 of 45
I'm very late on this thread, and I'm sorry Cindy. I'm sorry that you were having such a hard time, but thats great news that you and Bill got to talk! I'm happy for you.

I hope your son finds what he needs thru his rehabilitation, and that eventually he can re-enter society and be healthy and happy. Stay strong!
post #30 of 45
Cindy, I can't tell you how happy I am for you that you and Bill finally talked and worked some things out!! That's great news!! Best of luck. And I hope your son is doing well, too.
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