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no-go areas" emerging in British towns and cities - Page 2

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
If he understood there should be no but
He's just like my father-in-law, who distributes the local Catholic church's monthly bulletin. He knows neither one of us attends mass, or holds the Catholic beliefs we were brought up with, yet he brings us the bulletin every month, and points out scheduled highlights in the hope of getting us to attend. He stopped trying to argue religion with us decades ago, though, and would never dream of telling us we're going to burn in hell, etc..

LDS (Mormons) maintain a house practically next door to the school I teach at, and I've been seeing the changing groups of young missionaries for decades. (We moved into a new building a few years ago, and are now even closer to them than before.) They're welcome to drop by the school, which some do when they want to speak English other than just among themselves, or need some help with German, and they've never tried to push their religion on the students or faculty while on school property, unlike the Scientologists, whom we've got a restraining order against.

To me, what it boils down to is respect of others' degree of (un)willingness to be preached at, and the proper place for "spreading the word". The "fire and brimstone" approach probably even turns off prospective converts.
post #32 of 42
Bruce, sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I had a long post typed out last night then it disappeared. I was way to tired to start over again. Today has turned out to be a not so good day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
can we ban fat people also from parks?
cause really i dont want to see them.
and people with dogs, cause they do there business out there for everyone to see.

or in other words. walk the other way, walk around(unless your legs are broke of course), you are not forced to listen to someone. You are not being tied down, or forced at gun point to listen.
You honestly don't believe these are similar circumstances? Have you ever had an obese person try to convert you or your children to the"obese lifestyle"? Have you ever had then covertly pass out candy and tell kids that exercise is a tool of Satan ? Seriously.
As to the dogs, they are banned from many places and most every place they are allowed mandates that all poop be picked up. Heavy fines for not doing so.

If I am sitting in a park, and enjoying the greenspace that my tax dollars pay to create and some religious person then comes with a platform, microphone and speaker and starts preaching. Why should I have to be subjected to that? Why should I be forced out of the only enjoyable greenspace in the city that I helped pay for?

Religious people should be allowed to come and take over a public place forcing all other people to leave? This from the very same people who think homosexuals don't have a right to even exist because they are "gross". Or because their very existence some how harms someone that they don't even know.

Places of worship exist so religions can preach their message and those who which to participate know where to go to hear the "good news".

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
i dont remember, any place in there where it was said, they where harassing people.

as was said, by someone in the uk
"If the PCSO had called in the proper Police he probably would have been laughed at by them.
Its just one idiot getting too big for his boots, and the media will jump on anything like this atm"

nor does the news story say anything about the muslims in the area being upset. Just the PCSO who is not the police.

""He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said we were committing a hate crime by telling the youths to leave Islam and said that he was going to take us to the police station"

from the news story
"
West Midlands Police, officer would be given training in understanding hate crime and communication. "

so from the news story , they(being the preachers did nothing wrong, no one in the community filed a camplaint aganist them.
There have been growing tensions in England over middle eastern immigrants of the Muslim faith failing to integrate into English society. In light of these circumstances, having Evangelical preachers purposely going into a Muslim community to "tell the youths to leave Islam" certainl does amount to harassment. It could also very easily incite a riot.

Unfortunately these people were not just wanting to walk through the neighborhood just talking about their religions. They were there to purposely harangue and attempt to convert people who do not want to be converted. Can you honestly not see the problem with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
I can tell you the rise of the evangelicals is in direct response to what many feel is christians being pushed aside, and not being allowed to voice there opions or thoughts. How at the same time, seeing other faiths showing up in public schools and other places.

One example around here on TV, happy XXXX for muslims, for jews, but i did not see any that said merry christmas.
Unfortunately you left out the rest of my post which actually addressed this. It said :

"Yes there are people who want to erase all Christianity from public places. I believe this is because of the pushing of the Evangelicals. I was alive before the "born again" revolution. People didn't contest Christian symbols then and the Christian faiths were allowed many privileges that were not really following the rules, like Christmas pageants in public schools.

However once the Born Again Evangelicals starting on a roll, they decided that Halloween was too offensive and there could be no ghost, witch or devil costumes in school Halloween parties. Then there should be no Halloween at all because it was a Pagan celebration. Then it was children should be able to pray in public schools. They just started pushing and shoving and trying to make sure everything in society followed their beliefs.

Well this got them a backlash. If there is no Halloween allowed, then there is no Christmas allowed. Fair is fair. The Evangelicals pushed too hard and now they are suffering the consequences of their actions and all Christian religions are getting the repercussions.

In this country you must accommodate all or none. Many different religions have festivals and significant events around the same dates as Christmas. Thus the Happy Holidays to include everyone. The Evangelicals can't stand this, they think it should be only Christmas and Christmas should be on full display in everyones faces. "

I am not sure how you missed all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
which from the news article sounds like what took place.
the pretend cop was the only one that was gulity and reacted to non issue
Unless you want to go with someone talking about there faith is a hate crime.
I already addressed this above and in my previous post and in my original post.

These preacher were not just talking about their faith. They were purposely going into a neighborhood that is already about to boil over with tension, a neighborhood that did not want to be converted, with the sole purpose of trying to tell the youth no less to leave Islam.

Their actions were certainly not innocent.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post

You say you have no reason to squash anyones religious beliefs at all, and yet if I go back through all your posts in the religious threads, those that haven't been pulled at least, I would be able to find many statement of yours which are doing just that. This is the point, you don't even realize how intolerant, offensive and hateful you are being. When it is pointed out to you, then everyone is "Christian bashing".

I do not believe I have ever been "intolerent, offensive and hateful"
in any religious threads on this forum.
I don't believe you would be able to find "many statements" of mine "doing just that" But you are surely welcome to try.
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I do not believe I have ever been "intolerent, offensive and hateful"
in any religious threads on this forum.
I don't believe you would be able to find "many statements" of mine "doing just that" But you are surely welcome to try.
I agree that you don't believe I would be able to find any such statements. This is because I believe you don't do it intentionally. You believe your "truths" 100 % and therefor they could never be intolerant, offensive or hateful. However for those who do not have the same beliefs this is just how they come across when they are spoken as the only truth.

This is exactly the problem. The point being, if the outspoken Christians don't take a step back and look at how what they believe can be offensive to others no progress will ever be made. This is not saying Christians can't have their beliefs, talk about them, rejoice in them.

It is possible to have 100% faith in one's own beliefs and still allow others theirs.
post #35 of 42
Then find some posts of a spiritual nature of mine that you think are
hateful, intolerent and offensive. I really would like to see them. You can PM them to me if you would rather or if the Mods would rather.

You can't just throw something out there like that and not back it up IMO.
post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Then find some posts of a spiritual nature of mine that you think are
hateful, intolerent and offensive. I really would like to see them. You can PM them to me if you would rather or if the Mods would rather.

You can't just throw something out there like that and not back it up IMO.
Honestly, I have to agree. There are posters here who fit kittymonsters' description, but yours aren't usually like that. Seeing someone else have a strong faith is different than having it pushed in your face.

That is a lot of what this original thread was about. If these men had simply been Christians in a Muslim neighborhood, even wearing crucifixes and praying before a meal, even talking out loud about their own beliefs, "walking the walk" so to speak, nobody would have an issue.

It's when they began interrupting people in their own home, knowing they weren't welcome or invited, to preach at them that it became an issue.

Some people believe they need to be on a jihad for their faith in order to be a True Christian (TM) and that's just a strange idea that doesn't make you any friends. Most people don't believe that and don't appreciate a lot of the actions of those who do.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters
Well this got them a backlash. If there is no Halloween allowed, then there is no Christmas allowed. Fair is fair. The Evangelicals pushed too hard and now they are suffering the consequences of their actions and all Christian religions are getting the repercussions.
I agree that there's no real persecution of Christians in the West, but a "You've pushed too far!" reaction to the religious hardliners. I believe the vast majority of people living in the West really don't want theocracies, and that seems to be what Evangelicals are pushing for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Then find some posts of a spiritual nature of mine that you think are
hateful, intolerent and offensive. I really would like to see them. You can PM them to me if you would rather or if the Mods would rather.

You can't just throw something out there like that and not back it up IMO.
The mods definitely would rather!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Some people believe they need to be on a jihad for their faith in order to be a True Christian (TM) and that's just a strange idea that doesn't make you any friends. Most people don't believe that and don't appreciate a lot of the actions of those who do.
That about sums it up, IMO. I believe in religious tolerance, as well as tolerance of nonbelievers, and hate it when I find myself becoming extremely irritated at times by quotes, sermons, etc., from people who seem to feel it necessary to force-feed their beliefs to others.

These quotes are from another thread (Texas Illegally Seized...), but I think Mike's points are really valid: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=37
Quote:
So perhaps God changed his mind and DID appear to Smith. He's apparently changed his mind before, and is completely able to do it again. And I'm sure that there are those of the religions that follow the Old Testament that say there's no way people can claim to believe both the Old and the New.
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=35
Quote:
But there are also those that claim to believe in the Old Testament, but the New Testament takes precedence. Who's to say that the visions didn't happen? Perhaps the Book of Mormon is New Testament 2.0.
I find it difficult to comprehend that some people insist that the OT and NT were divinely inspired, while claiming that the Koran and Book of Mormon are bogus. Isn't it a bit presumptuous of believers to claim they understand God's intentions, and to pick and choose?
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Then find some posts of a spiritual nature of mine that you think are
hateful, intolerent and offensive. I really would like to see them. You can PM them to me if you would rather or if the Mods would rather.

You can't just throw something out there like that and not back it up IMO.
First, let me apologize to you for singling you out. That was rude and insensitive of me, and if not outside of the rules then very close to it. I'm honestly sorry. Thank you for being tolerant of it and keeping an open dialog.

I don't believe you are one who has directly banished anyone to hell, so I don't want you to think I am applying that to you. However, several of the threads on homosexuality and religion are ones that are coming to mind in terms of words that show intolerance and could be read as offensive and hateful by those who don't share your beliefs. There was another thread that I know got pulled, but I don't think it started as an outright religious thread though.

I will look up some posts and we can continue this in PM if that is ok with you. I don't want this thread to end up getting pulled, like so many others that go down this road.

Just to make it clear one more time...I don't think you are a bad person that purposely goes out of her way to be hurtful to others. I also don't think you are a bad person just because you are a Christian. ETA: I don't think you are a bad person, period. ( I should really never type when overtired and stressed. It just doesn't come out the way it is supposed too!)

It is about trying to shed some light on why certain Christians sects feel like they are being persecuted.
post #39 of 42
Believe me, it is hard for Christians to sort it all out. The Old Testament was terribly violent. It always bummed me out that God told Joshua, when they crossed into the Promised Land, to kill every man, woman and child in Jericho except for the prostitute (I don't remember her name) and her family that helped them.

Then, Jesus comes along and pretty much changes the whole thing. That is what I concentrate on.

In the New Testament the Apostles are told to travel and spread the word and the saving grace of Jesus. BUT, it also says, if the people don't want to hear it, to "wipe the dust off your sandals and move on" or something to that effect.

It doesn't bring anyone to Jesus by threatening them with eternal damnation.

Teaching of the gift of eternal life seems to be a much better way.

BTW: I don't think anyone on this forum every said gay people don't deserve to exist either. And I really didn't think the gay thread was bad. People can disagree and not be for gay marriage and not be hateful to gay people.
Sorry, that is off-topic.
post #40 of 42
Thread Starter 
lol most of these posts are just proving that
A) the story is right,
B) there is freedom of speech for everyone in the US but for Christians
post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
.

BTW: I don't think anyone on this forum every said gay people don't deserve to exist either. And I really didn't think the gay thread was bad. People can disagree and not be for gay marriage and not be hateful to gay people.
Sorry, that is off-topic.

I am working on my PM to you, but wanted to address this. The thread where it was said gay people don't deserve to exist was deleted very quickly by the excellent moderators here. Be thankful you didn't read it as it was really really bad.

I agree 100% that people can disagree and not be for gay marriage and still not be hateful to gay people. Unfortunately that usually isn't the way it happens.
post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol most of these posts are just proving that
A) the story is right,
B) there is freedom of speech for everyone in the US but for Christians

Can you explain how you come to these conclusions please. I am not following it.
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