no-go areas" emerging in British towns and cities

There is a huge difference between 2 Christian preachers being discouraged from preaching and that area being a no-go area for Christians going about their daily business.
Police Community Support Officers have basically no Police powers what so ever. They can't arrest people. They are there to act as an intermediary between the proper Police and the public, and create a visible Police presence around tourist attractions.
If the PCSO had called in the proper Police he probably would have been laughed at by them.
Its just one idiot getting too big for his boots, and the media will jump on anything like this atm.

This is the sort of phrase that really chews me up inside!.

He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message.

Before long we'll be saying "Who's country am i in again?!"

A bishop recently said that there are no-go areas for Christians in our country. Birmingham has a huge proportion of minority ethnic groups, and it is thought that within a few years there will be more minorities in Birmingham than British born and bred people.
Its just another 'a bishop said there are no-go areas, omg, could they be right?' article.

We've prosecuted a bunch of Muslim preachers for inciting racial hatred. Although, unlike Christian preachers, they tend to preach to the converted which means that situations like this are far fewer. If the PCSO had paid attention during training it wouldn't have happened at all.

I think what she's meaning is the fact that the media "as usual" love to make a mountain out of a mole hill and cause problems where ever possible
Do you mean a muslim in another city such as London, Manchester?. Probably because unfortunately this is the way this country is now, bending over backwards for other people and forgetting their own.

Exactly. I love my country but our media makes out like everything we do nowadays will bring about the apocalypse!

The British are losing their freedom for sure.

It will be and is happening here too, get ready for more of the same in this country.

A police auxiliary gets on a piss about Pres Bush and now the entire British people are losing their rights?

Sounds to me like one particular policeman decided these two were obnoxious -- which they are, how many threads have we had here to talk about how to avoid door-to-door salesmen-- and said they might get beat up if they come back to the area.

They might. People don't like strangers knocking on their door telling them they're going to hell.

If there's incidences of violence being perpetrated on people because they're Christian, in Muslim neighborhoods, maybe there's something here. Otherwise, it's an isolated event.

Are you saying, because you do not like door-to-door saleman, we should take their freedom away? If you can't see why the article is disturbing, to say the least, then I don't know what to tell you.

No, I am saying that most people find door-to-door proselytizing annoying. Not that they shouldn't be allowed to do it. If you like people coming to your door, trying to sell you things, well, that is a personal preference most people just don't share. I just don't answer the door when they come here. Not hard.

I see, in this article, a person in a position of authority who decided he didn't like these two preachers personally (possibly because they're American), and started telling them they had to leave. Without any legal basis to do so, he resorted to vague threats of "Oh, you might get beaten up for doing this here".

If you want to take a single incident as an example of how Muslims are taking over the Western world and persecuting Christians, well, I just don't know what to tell you. What if the neighborhood had been black/hispanic/jewish/hindu/blahblahblah? If you notice, it wasn't anyone in the neighborhood threatening these people, it was a cop. If there are many incidences, again, of violence or threats directed at Christians by Muslims, you have a problem. This sounds like an internal disciplinary thing for a cop with a bad day.

And people keep saying "oh that won't happen HERE". Its getting harder and harder to say anything the Bible teaches. This is just the beginning - it will get worse and people just don't want to see it or believe it.

We have to stand strong and keep praying and defending God's words.

This isn't routine... It was one idiot PCSO who may or may not have been asian and who seemed to have a thing against Americans.

I guess we are technically losing our freedoms, but they are freedoms that most citizens wouldn't be affected by anyway (apart from restrictions protesting outside the houses of parliament, which I disagree with). I'd rather have our restrictions than the Patriot act.

For every idiotic event that make the news there are thousands of schools with nativity plays, kids singing baa baa black sheep, street preachers free to yell at the public through megaphones every day of the week. We haven't yet gone to the dogs.

It is not true that it is "getting harder and harder to say anything the Bible teaches". People can preach and talk about the Bible all they want in the appropriate places. In the US this means religion is to stay OUT of any place funded by the public. So no religion in public schools, no ten commandments in courthouses, no making political decisions for the country based on personal religious beliefs.

Evangelicals don't like the fact that they are not being allowed to squash the religious beliefs of others by purposely trying to insert their own beliefs into all aspects of public life. This is very different than not being able to say anything about what the Bible teaches. This whole new Christians are being persecuted thing seems to be tied to the Born Again movement which now are called the Evangelicals or Fundamentalists.

Faith and religion are very personal choices. Compared to other Christian religions ( including the Jehovah's witnesses), the Evangelicals don't seem to understand this. They keep pushing, coming across as rude, nasty, bigoted hypocrites. Now others have finally started to push back.

In England things may be different as they have a past that is associated with a theocratic monarchy and actually have a national religion. So religious tolerances may be very different than what is expected in the US.

Barging into peoples lives and expecting them to listen to what "you" personally believe is offensive. Doing so is going to agitate people.

IMO this is exactly what these Evangelicals were trying to do. They knew this was a Muslim community, they knew these people did not want to be converted. Purposely going there to preach Christianity was stupid and very much looks to be an act designed to offend people, incite a riot or to give the feeling that Muslims are not welcomed.

I am sure these preachers would be quite offended to have Muslims constantly knocking on their doors telling them they were infidels, children of Satan and going to burn in hell for not converting to Islam. ( or whatever the extremist Muslims say about Christians)

Now they are going to sue...how very Christian of them

It is quite possible the Evangelicals are the false prophets the Bible warns against and all the people that follow them are going to be very surprised at where they end up spending eternity. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing and all that stuff.

Now if this Muslim community is actually an immigrant community that is refusing to integrate into all aspects of general life in England then the basis for the problem is rooted in something other than religion.

And as long as i draw breath we'll always be the "Land of hope and glory!!"

The Ten Commandments are on the doors to the Supreme Court of the United States. How do you account for that? Should they buy new doors?

What does that have to do with anything? I thought we were talking about Britain.

But, the Supreme Court has a large display of many various religious and secular types of law, one of them being Moses and two tablets engraved with roman numerals I-X (not the actual commandments). Snopes has an article on your claim, if you'd like http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp. Have you ever been to the Supreme Court?

Ummmm, I was replying to Kittymonsters post above mine where she said,
" no ten commandments in courthouses," okie dokie?
Relax Z.


P.S. 2 Tablets numbered I-X = The Ten Commandments.

If you'd read the link she provided, you'd see that's the wrong conclusion. I know you're familiar with the Bill of Rights.

Ok, I'll bite and repeat Z's and JCat's replies with the reasonings cited in the link as well. This link explains perfectly what I was referring to, also cites the most recent famous case of where the Supreme Court refused to overturn the ruling to remove the ten commandments from an Alabama courthouse. They had to remove the monument because it was put there for religious purposes only.

Now to be an instigator... since this was the only part of my post that you even attempted to argue this much mean you agree with everything else I said

My family may be a little more religiously diverse than most (we joke that "So far, we have everything but Hindus, but that will probably change in the near future!"), but having experienced the religious intolerance of family members of my grandparents' and parents' generations (think: the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland), and my sister's successive marriages to a Jew, a Protestant, and a Mormon, while still maintaining many of the Catholic beliefs instilled in her as a child, I really find the "proclamations of true faith" offensive/aggressive/counterproductive.

Please don't try to impose your personal religious beliefs on society as a whole. There are enough examples of civil war and genocide in the "name of religion" in the world's recent past that quite simply elicit pure disgust.

The tablet that Moses carries has #6 - #10 of the Ten Commandments on it.I see what you are saying but people cannot take everything that is Judeo-Christian out no matter what Snopes says. IMO, that is.

I bet I could go in a "public building" and talk about the Holy Bible. To say I couldn't is just not true, IMO.


So, you are painting all "Evangelicals" with that broad brush? I have no reason to "squash" anyones religious beliefs at all. There are many people in this country that would like nothing better than to remove anything remotely associated with Christianity, to say that isn't true is ridiculous to me. We see it constantly. But that has been debated over and over again here and is getting tiresome. It will come up again this Christmas.

You seem to have an axe to grind against "Evangelicals", do you?
There are segments of all religous persuasion that "come across" as "rude, nasty, bigoted hypocrites", why single out the Evangelicals?

Sooo, Christians aren't Christian if they "sue"?

I believe that it's the attitude/approach of Evangelists that many object to. Just to give a personal example- Seventh Day Adventists are very active in the area where I live, and they go door to door. Their current preacher, for want of a better word, is very active, but he has a "soft" approach. He knocks on our door at least once a month, and every time we go through the whole rigamarole. I tell him I'm not interested in being converted, and that he's wasting his time, and he says he understands, but gives me some literature, and invites me to attend a service. I don't find that objectionable, because he makes no attempt to shove his beliefs down my throat. However, when others come along spouting quotes from the Bible (which I personally consider literature, i.e., a manmade creation), and try to convince me that I'll burn in hell if I don't see things the way they do, I feel harassed, and therefore just dismiss them. Wrong approach, period.

If he understood there should be no but

I think you can go into a public place and talk about the Bible. That was my point to GK45.

However I don't think you could set up a soapbox in a public park, start spewing Biblical quotes and telling park goers they will end up in Hell if they don't listen to your rantings and get away with it. The police would be called and the person would be taken away for disorderly conduct. That is forcing ones religion on others.

You say you have no reason to squash anyones religious beliefs at all, and yet if I go back through all your posts in the religious threads, those that haven't been pulled at least, I would be able to find many statement of yours which are doing just that. This is the point, you don't even realize how intolerant, offensive and hateful you are being. When it is pointed out to you, then everyone is "Christian bashing".

My point is talking about religion and purposely harassing people with religion are two different things. What these Evangelical preachers were trying to do was harass Muslims, that is quite evident.

Actually of the dozens of Evangelicals that I personally know, there are only three, that I would describe as truly kind and non-judgmental. They will pray for people whose souls they believe are in jeopardy, but would never think to tell them they were going to hell.

In my experience, compared to other religions the Evangelicals are the most abrasive, intolerant group as a whole, I have ever had to associate with. They are the most in your face, purposely hurtful and hateful group if they come up across someone who does not follow their beliefs. It is the intolerance that makes me disgusted with Evangelicals. Evangelicals don't seem to be able to allow others their beliefs, including other Christian religions.

I have had experiences similar to JCat's. I had a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses who used to come to my home ( despite a no soliciting sign). These two women were very kind. I actually had them bring their bibles a couple times and honestly listened. Despite this not being my cup of tea they still kindly stopped by and dropped off the newest issue of The Watchtower. I respected them for their devotion and they were not demeaning or degrading to me because I chose not to follow their same beliefs. They were able to practice their religion, which requires they go door to door, and still accept that not everyone follows their same faith.

Yes there are people who want to erase all Christianity from public places. I believe this is because of the pushing of the Evangelicals. I was alive before the "born again" revolution. People didn't contest Christian symbols then and the Christian faiths were allowed many privileges that were not really following the rules, like Christmas pageants in public schools.

However once the Born Again Evangelicals starting on a roll, they decided that Halloween was too offensive and there could be no ghost, witch or devil costumes in school Halloween parties. Then there should be no Halloween at all because it was a Pagan celebration. Then it was children should be able to pray in public schools. They just started pushing and shoving and trying to make sure everything in society followed their beliefs.

Well this got them a backlash. If there is no Halloween allowed, then there is no Christmas allowed. Fair is fair. The Evangelicals pushed too hard and now they are suffering the consequences of their actions and all Christian religions are getting the repercussions.

In this country you must accommodate all or none. Many different religions have festivals and significant events around the same dates as Christmas. Thus the Happy Holidays to include everyone. The Evangelicals can't stand this, they think it should be only Christmas and Christmas should be on full display in everyones faces.

Yes, Christmas trees are Christmas trees and I don't think they should be called anything else. However then as Christmas Trees are purely religious symbols one has no place on the White House lawn. Just because it has been done in the past doesn't mean it is right and should continue in the future. Especially when it is used as an argument to further insinuate Christianity as the governing rules of this country.


As to the suing comment. Christians can sue all they want. Anyone should sue if they have been truly harmed by unfair practices. However in this particular case these Evangelical preachers are crying foul and wanting to sue when they were not even harmed. What they were proposing to do certainly would have incited religious violence. There is no way they could not know this. The threat to sue is a money and media grabbing manipulative ploy on their parts that just puts the whole situation over the top. Ick! I stand by my statement...how very un-Christian of them in the context of this particular situation.