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Yet another infanticide in Germany

post #1 of 10
5/29/08 at 11:40am
Thread Starter 
This one was right in my area: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu....ap/index.html

and is simply the most recent in quite a number of cases this year. I can't help but think that the dearth of daycare facilities and full-day schools plays a role. A few people I've discussed this with believe the strict abortion laws, which only allow abortions in the first trimester and following counseling, are a contributing factor.
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post #2 of 10
5/29/08 at 1:01pm
How sad. One has to feel badly for the women too since they obviously felt they had no other way out.
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post #3 of 10
5/29/08 at 2:54pm
It's hard to understand how anyone could do this as many as eight times without discovering the advantages of birth control. What's going on? They must be very desparate to do this.

It is usually very young mothers, teens, that kill or abandon their babies in the U.S. There was the case of one USC student that left her baby at a trash dumpster. She was recently found guilty.

Los Angeles County has an abandoned baby program. A newborn can be left at any hospital or fire station, no questions asked.
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post #4 of 10
5/29/08 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
A few people I've discussed this with believe the strict abortion laws, which only allow abortions in the first trimester and following counseling, are a contributing factor.
could also be, that abortions leads to de vaule of the life of the new born.
so they just toss it, so they kill it a 2 months or they kill it at 2 days. Seems the same thing to me.

was it not the romans who said a women had 7 days after to perfom the post birth abortion? thats why they used to find some many babies in old world wells and such.
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post #5 of 10
5/29/08 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
A few people I've discussed this with believe the strict abortion laws, which only allow abortions in the first trimester and following counseling, are a contributing factor.
A little side note on this topic, Canada (yesterday I believe) honoured Dr. Henry Morgentaler for the strides he made here pro-abortion. He started his work 20 years ago.

I agree with the comment on birth control being available, but unfortunately it doesn't always work. My SIL got pregnant while using a diaphragm and a condom. I had another SIL that got pregnant if my brother looked at her the wrong way . They had 4 kids, bang, bang, bang, bang and both were too young to even have one child. Some religions don't allow birth control, so there are 2 sides to every story.

I don't advocate that people can just not take precautions and get pregnant over and over again with no thought to the consequences, but neither do I think anyone should be forced to give birth to a child that may eventually suffer for lack of food, caring, and a good childhood. The women bringing those children into the world need to have the option of aborting before embryo becomes a child, i.e., born into this often cruel world.
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post #6 of 10
5/29/08 at 8:55pm
Is there a state (or country) adoption program available in Germany? I know they have the drop off site, but are women given the option to give the baby up for adoption when they deliver? And, is it such a social stigma there for a single woman to have a baby? I'm not being antagonistic, I honest don't know what the view of single motherhood is in Germany.

I don't think changing the abortion rules is going to help, but how much sex- ed do people get in Germany (again, I don't know, which is why I'm asking). How available is birth control, especially to younger people? I've never been to Germany, but my grandfather was full German, and his side of the family is very set on traditional values. So, I could be wrong with my impression, but Germany is probably not as open minded when it comes to sex as most people think in the US think "Europe" as a whole is.

Still, it breaks my heart hearing about babies being buried in flower pots and put in freezers.

One thing I do want to say...the article states that more women in the US kill their babies than women in Germany. It doesn't say more women "per capita" so they didn't make that point based on population. Yeah, there are probably more children killed by their mothers in US because the population is MUCH higher that Germany. In my opinion, it is still wrong regardless, but I just wanted to point that out.
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post #7 of 10
5/30/08 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Is there a state (or country) adoption program available in Germany? I know they have the drop off site, but are women given the option to give the baby up for adoption when they deliver?
Yes, and there is an incredibly long waiting list, as I know from personal experience.
Quote:
And, is it such a social stigma there for a single woman to have a baby? I'm not being antagonistic, I honest don't know what the view of single motherhood is in Germany.
There's much less stigma attached to single mothers than in the U.S.. In fact, it's quite common for people to have a combined wedding and baptism.

Quote:
I don't think changing the abortion rules is going to help, but how much sex- ed do people get in Germany (again, I don't know, which is why I'm asking). How available is birth control, especially to younger people? I've never been to Germany, but my grandfather was full German, and his side of the family is very set on traditional values. So, I could be wrong with my impression, but Germany is probably not as open minded when it comes to sex as most people think in the US think "Europe" as a whole is.
Sex education is a required subject (I'm a teacher, so this is something I'm quite sure of). Health insurance also covers/subsidizes birth control expenses. Germany is far more open-minded about sex and nudity than the U.S.. When I first moved here (1979), I was literally open-mouthed when I saw the amount of nudity and explicit sex shown on prime-time TV. A lot of major U.S. movies have a slightly longer European version showing explicit sex scenes that would shock many Americans.

Quote:
Still, it breaks my heart hearing about babies being buried in flower pots and put in freezers.

One thing I do want to say...the article states that more women in the US kill their babies than women in Germany. It doesn't say more women "per capita" so they didn't make that point based on population. Yeah, there are probably more children killed by their mothers in US because the population is MUCH higher that Germany. In my opinion, it is still wrong regardless, but I just wanted to point that out.
I haven't seen per capita figures, but given the more comprehensive social security system in Germany, it's shocking that anybody would feel "compelled" to "have" to kill their child.
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post #8 of 10
5/30/08 at 10:15pm
Thank you for answering my questions. So basically, these are just women who are stupid and selfish and don't want to take responsibility for their actions and think killing their child is somehow easier or better than giving it up for adoption so they can be in a loving family. (I'm adopted, so that REALLY burns me up! :flame:

Selfish people exist all over the planet, and unfortunately, I still am not sure more aid is going to help someone who is wired like that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again....sometimes the human race just amazes me.
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post #9 of 10
5/31/08 at 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Thank you for answering my questions. So basically, these are just women who are stupid and selfish and don't want to take responsibility for their actions and think killing their child is somehow easier or better than giving it up for adoption so they can be in a loving family. (I'm adopted, so that REALLY burns me up! :flame

Selfish people exist all over the planet, and unfortunately, I still am not sure more aid is going to help someone who is wired like that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again....sometimes the human race just amazes me.
This seems a little harsh. We don't really know much about the circumstances of these deaths. There could be serious mental illness, spousal abuse, or mental retardation among other problems.

http://www.thewip.net/contributors/2...mothers_k.html

Tucked into the middle of this article is a statement that the U.S. has the highest infanticide rate in the industrialized world. I couldn't find any statistics to prove or disprove this.
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post #10 of 10
5/31/08 at 3:22am
The women who killed over and over are serial killers.
Yes, people have mental issues but over and over is something more sinister going on.
Not that I agree with it but in 3rd world countries with very poor people in dire situations it would make more sense. Those women have no resources no good medical care. No birth control. They can't feed themselves much less another child. But in Germany it makes no sense. There are plenty of other options.
Usually when these things happen the media tries to find a bigger societal reason for it happening but sometimes I think it is simply about the individual.

If the women were paranoid schizophrenics they would not have been able to hide that from others. This seems more like a sociopathic personality type.
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