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flutd and food, desperate for advice!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
hello,

I have 7 beautiful kitty babies who are used to having every possible variety of cat food, wet and dry and raw around the house available whenever they want 24/7. I have some very fussy eaters most likely because they have become so spoiled for choice but I dont mind and up until now have no problem catering to there every food wishes. Actually i love to spoil them and get excited just going to the cat food aisles to see what new flavour I can try for them! Sad but true.

But one of my boys has recently developed urinary problems - crystals and trying to pee a million times a day and only producing a few drops of bloody urine. Fortunately I caught it before he came completely blocked and he has been at the vet for days on fluids/antibiotics etc. This is the second time it has happened within 2 months. The vet has told me now that he can only eat a special diet designed to dissolve crystals and that is it FOREVER. I am just devastated and I know he will be too. He adores his food soooo much and is such a food orientated cat and since he has come home from the vet he is just so sad and depressed and I cannot even cheer him up with his favourite treats.

I have to take all the other food away which means all the other cats suffer - and I have one little girl who hardly eats anything but as she walks by a bowl of crunchies she may have a few kibbles, she does this often throughout the day but never enough to count as a meal - she would barely eat half a handful all day. if I have to take away all her food, i think she will just fade away.

Anyway, I am dragging my main query out - does my cat really have to stay on this C/D diet forever really? is there anything else I can give him, like a supplement like Cranberry? The vet said a diet low in phosporus is key but surely there are other foods that are low in this that I can give?

Any advice is greaty appreciated as I dont want to deprive my babies of their food and have no variety in their life. I think that is sooo mean but I know I have to think of my sick kitty's health
post #2 of 17
I was about to start a thread with essentially the same question when I saw yours! My Jeta has struvite crystals. I was hopeful that a 1/2 wet 1/2 dry diet and water fountains to encourage drinking would be enough to keep them at bay, but apparently not.

My vet wants her on a prescription diet for life and since I also have a multi-cat household the other kitties would have to eat it exclusively also. I might try to come up with a practicial way to feed them separately but in the mean time they all have to eat the same food.

Like you, I was wondering about supplements to acidify the urine. Are they as effective as the prescription foods?

I'd love to hear what anyone has to say.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Im sorry to hear you are the same boat mschauer, its really a horrible situation. Im so weak, Ive already relented and gave him a very little bit of fresh veal (human meat). I am not sure how fresh human grade meat can hurt since this is what cats are supposed to eat? Im not sure though.

My other cats are walking around with bewilderment wondering where all the food is. I will feed them their regular food when Im home and can supervise and throw out left overs immediately but I will feel so sad for him because he will wonder why he isnt getting any, poor sweetie. This is SO hard. I noticed another post on the board asking essentially the same question so I hope we can get some answers.
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikee View Post
I noticed another post on the board asking essentially the same question so I hope we can get some answers.
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's an epidemic!

On using supplements to increase the urine acidity, one problem I can think of is that the urine can be made too acidic and so if a supplement is used we would have to carefully monitor kitties pH on a regular basis.
post #5 of 17
Purina one and pro plan have Urinary formulas that are certified for UTI health ...

Nutros Max adult and lite are being re certified do to a small ingrediant change .. ie % ages did not ....

those are dry formulas UTI wets are easier to find

Personally I would NOT use a supplement with a RX due to knowing how they test them ....

l methothiane( spelling anyone it is early) is the supplement and ingrediant my vet says to look for

cranberry powder has been useful in some cases

most recently and the evidence is mounting in it favor ... glucosimine and condrotin
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Purina one and pro plan have Urinary formulas that are certified for UTI health ...

Nutros Max adult and lite are being re certified do to a small ingrediant change .. ie % ages did not ....

those are dry formulas UTI wets are easier to find
Thanks for the reply!

Are these foods any better quality wish than the RX foods? I looked at Pro Plan and the 1st ingredient is corn gluten meal. I seem to recall that it is common for urinary health foods to have a grain as the first ingredient. Is this true?

Edit: I just looked at Nutro Max roasted Chk. It has chicken meal as 1st ingred. I guess I can live with that. Groan.
post #7 of 17
some do .. that is the trade off see corn gluten meal balences calcium and phos levels in chicken...

the ingrediants in them are better than an RX but most have corn or corn gluten meal and wheat ( which also helps balence)... MAX IMHO is far better than RX s , no grd corn , no animal by products and no chemical preservatives

hum off topic is this a message to eat more wet ??? lol ... those dont have to have those to balence
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
hum off topic is this a message to eat more wet ??? lol ... those dont have to have those to balence
Yeah, actually I was going to ask about that. Would feeding all wet prevent the crystals?
post #9 of 17
I wont say that ... you know I aint a vet ... but all wet seems to help with that issue ..... My vet will tell you canned or raw NO DRY ( she likes to use grain free and has yet to find a truly UTI safe grain free)

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/pro...45524441783038

Ingredients

Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken, Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene.

Average Nutrient Contents
Nutrient
\tNutrient Guarantee
%\tAs Fed1
%\tDry Matter2
%\tAs Fed, Caloric Basis3
g/100 kcal
Protein\t30.0 Minimum\t32.5\t34.6\t8.4
Fat\t13.0 Minimum\t15.2\t16.2\t3.9
Carbohydrate (NFE)\t\t40.7\t43.3\t10.5
Crude Fiber\t1.0 Maximum\t0.5\t0.5\t0.1
\t\t\t\tmg/100 kcal3
Calcium\t0.50 Minimum\t0.71\t0.76\t184
Phosphorus\t0.40 Minimum\t0.61\t0.65\t158
Sodium\t0.50 Maximum\t0.31\t0.33\t80
Potassium\t\t0.75\t0.80\t194
Magnesium\t0.080 Maximum\t0.057\t0.061\t15
Taurine\t0.10 Minimum\t0.24\t0.26\t62
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total\t0.35 Minimum\t0.60\t0.64\t156

DO you want it color coded???

Max cat adult
http://nutroproducts.com/mcdry-arc.shtml
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Ground Whole Wheat, Natural Flavors, Chicken, Yeast Culture, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Menhaden Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Dried Cranberry, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Potassium Iodide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Dried Blueberry, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.
Nutro Products, Inc. supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (minimum) \t32.00%
Crude Fat (minimum) \t17.00%
Crude Fiber (maximum) \t3.00%
Moisture (maximum) \t10.00%
Ash (maximum) \t6.50%
Linoleic Acid (minimum) \t3.50%
Magnesium (maximum) \t0.085%
Zinc (minimum) \t200 mg/kg
Vitamin E (minimum) \t150 IU/kg
Taurine (minimum) \t0.16%
Ascorbic Acid (minimum)* \t18 mg/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (minimum)* \t0.05%
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profiles.


REMEMBER TO talk to YOUR VETS about this issue Prior to using OTC foods
post #10 of 17
purina one


http://www.purinaone.com/Products/Pr...8-274567b0ece5

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (MIN)\t31.0% \tCalcium (Ca) (MIN)\t0.8%
Crude Fat (MIN)\t12.5% \tPhosphorus (P) (MIN)\t0.7%
Crude Fiber (MAX)\t2.0% \tMagnesium (Mg) (MAX)\t0.08%
Moisture (MAX)\t10.0% \tTaurine (MIN)\t0.15%
Ash (MAX)\t6.2% \t\t

Ingredients

Corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, chicken, brewers rice, wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), egg product, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, animal digest, sodium caseinate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried whey, defluorinated phosphate, salt, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, citric acid, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.M-4158

Manufactured by: Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, St. Louis, MO 63164 USA

Animal feeding tests using Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) procedures substantiate that Purina ONE Special Care Urinary Tract Health Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for maintenance of adult cats.

Pro plan is nearly identical to one
but i cant cut and paste there site
http://www.proplan.com/products/Urin...th_DryCat.html
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Ingredients
<snip>
Thanks. I guess I'm going to have to rethink what I'm feeding, AGAIN. I'm thinking more and more that raw is simply the only thing that really makes sense for feeding cats. All commercial foods have some big drawback it seems to me.

Well, I'm going to stick with the RX food until the crystals are dissolved and then see if I can find a non-RX way to control her urine pH.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
Thanks. I guess I'm going to have to rethink what I'm feeding, AGAIN. I'm thinking more and more that raw is simply the only thing that really makes sense for feeding cats. All commercial foods have some big drawback it seems to me.

Well, I'm going to stick with the RX food until the crystals are dissolved and then see if I can find a non-RX way to control her urine pH.
Give the girl a prize ... i would HIGHLY recommend that course of action
post #13 of 17
I just want to add 1 insight: I have a newly diagnosed FLUTD boy and we're switching from Innova (phosporous is too high) to Wellness Core and Nutro Max. They LOVE Nutro Max because I think it tastes a little like junk food. But as Sharky said, if you have to give dry, it's one of the better options.

I empathize with that forelorn "woe is me" look they give you as you change out their foods. Mine were giving me that look until we brought in the Nutro.
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Give the girl a prize ... i would HIGHLY recommend that course of action
I just thought of something else. What exactly does it mean that a food is UTI certiifed? Is it just that the food contains less of the crystal forming minerals or do they also have to have ingredients that control urine pH? Do you have a link that would tell me exactly what they have to prove to get the certification?
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
wow, thanks sharky for all the advice. Sadly I dont think we get the Nutro or Wellness here in Australia. We do have Innova Evo and California Natural as far as the super healthy brands go, but its very limited.

momofmany, you mentioned the phosprous is too high in Innova, I bought some hoping that could be ok but I guess not. I bought both the regular Innova and Innova Evo. I couldnt find the actual % of phosporous though. Do you or anyone else know what the levels should be? I know they should also be low in magnesium but Im not sure what percentage I need to look for that it must be less than. Actually to be honset I dont even know what I need to be looking for other than that. Is potassium bad? I noticed the Innova says potassium, not sure if that has any relevance not.

Thank you for the help so far, glad we could get some advice!

Oh just wanted to add I have no problem feeding all wet, cats prefer it, but vet says Dry Royal Canin S/O only or Hills C/D
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikee View Post
momofmany, you mentioned the phosprous is too high in Innova, I bought some hoping that could be ok but I guess not. I bought both the regular Innova and Innova Evo. I couldnt find the actual % of phosporous though. Do you or anyone else know what the levels should be? I know they should also be low in magnesium but Im not sure what percentage I need to look for that it must be less than. Actually to be honset I dont even know what I need to be looking for other than that. Is potassium bad? I noticed the Innova says potassium, not sure if that has any relevance not.

Thank you for the help so far, glad we could get some advice!
Ask Sharky about potassium. She's helped me realize that Innova is not the best choice for FLUTD related illnesses. She is my mentor!
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
I just thought of something else. What exactly does it mean that a food is UTI certiifed? Is it just that the food contains less of the crystal forming minerals or do they also have to have ingredients that control urine pH? Do you have a link that would tell me exactly what they have to prove to get the certification?

This means it had further testing past the AFFCO feed tests via a FDA approved lab ... testing goes for 12-24 months and have validated the %ages and the food as helping to prevent UTI issues ... Hope that made a lick of sense ... Often they have different %ages than many other foods ... The ingredients HELP ... Yes it is possible to make one with out them but so far no one has ///


Quote:
Originally Posted by kikee View Post
wow, thanks sharky for all the advice. Sadly I dont think we get the Nutro or Wellness here in Australia. We do have Innova Evo and California Natural as far as the super healthy brands go, but its very limited.

I have to ask you to link those foods from Australia as many foods change % ages and ingredients in different countries... I will attempt to decipher

momofmany, you mentioned the phosprous is too high in Innova, I bought some hoping that could be ok but I guess not. I bought both the regular Innova and Innova Evo. I couldnt find the actual % of phosporous though. Do you or anyone else know what the levels should be? I know they should also be low in magnesium but Im not sure what percentage I need to look for that it must be less than. Actually to be honset I dont even know what I need to be looking for other than that. Is potassium bad? I noticed the Innova says potassium, not sure if that has any relevance not.

Thank you for the help so far, glad we could get some advice!

Often you have to call the company for Calcium and Phosphorus info....See my prior comment

Potassium has something to do with UTI but % ages are hard to come by for it ..See often it is given in mg and is %aged against the Sodium which is entering vet territory..


Oh just wanted to add I have no problem feeding all wet, cats prefer it, but vet says Dry Royal Canin S/O only or Hills C/D
WET IS GREAT .... I prefer Royal canin


Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
Ask Sharky about potassium. She's helped me realize that Innova is not the best choice for FLUTD related illnesses. She is my mentor!
thank you ...
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