could someone in the UK explain this

That is insanely stupid.

If there is any other response to that article, pleasepleaseplease share.

Ok, that's not the normal UK flag I've seen before, so what does that flag stand for? I'm just wondering if it isn't something like the confederate flag being flown in the US. Since the official flag is for the United Kingdom, which does include more than England proper, right? Maybe that was the problem?

Hopefully, someone across the pond can help shed some light on this.

If it would have to do with the Crusades then I find that ironic considering the Crusaders sacked the city of Constantinople to the point that the Byzantine Empire never recovered. I did read something on Wikipedia (everything on Wiki needs to be taken with a grain of salt) that the flag was often associated with the British National Party which was labelled as a white-only organization. If that is true, it would make more sense than the Crusades.

It's the English flag as opposed to the British flag. Scotland has its own flag, as does Wales and Northern Ireland. They can all fly the British flag, but they often have their country flag as a bit of country pride. I believe a lot of churches fly the St George's Cross flag. I wonder if they'll be asked to take it down.

I'm not British, but as I understand it, the English flag is very popular among ultra-nationalist circles, while Union Jack is more neutral. The English flag is of course also used in innocent surroundings, ie. soccer games.

Though I find it hard to understand why the boy was asked to take the flag off by a police officer, people in Europe use flags in a very differend way from Americans. Private citizens don't wear them or keep them otherwise on display outside of special occations, only skinheads and their like do that. If I saw a car adorned with the Finnish flag and there was no sports event etc. to explain it, I'd be 99% sure the owner was racist. Anyway, here using the flag in excess is often considered disrespectful to the flag also.

Of course this is just my viewpoint. The Brits here might see it differendly.

I've just spent the last week and a half in Europe (Czech Republic, Germany and Switerland), and DH and I were commenting while in Germany about the number of flags being displayed. We were in Bavaria, and there was Bavarian flags up all over the place - these were quaint little cottages with little rose gardens. Surely they're not all racists?

People are proud of their heritage and like to display that pride. It's like in the US where people display their state flag along with the US flag.

I've seen it all now

It's the flag of England, always has been, always will be, just like the Union Jack is for Great Britain. It gets flown whenever were in football matches with other countries right down to having stickers of it to put inside a car window or bumper.

Give me strength, this countries getting worse Seriously, and this is no offence to any muslims, iranians etc... but because we have so many in the UK now our schools no longer put an original nativity on at christmas because we have other religions to consider. They can't have the normal sheep, cattle that were in the stable with baby Jesus, they have squirrels and rabbits!!

As long as i live, no one, and i mean no one will tell me i have to change because of others.

Reading that article again it sounds like Mr Policeman was nitpicking

My friend from England considers herself English first and then British. She has one of these on her car and I am pretty sure she is no racist. In fact I know she is not a racist and she hates football so she is just proud of being English.
I bet the cop just wanted to harass the kid.

But I do what was meant by the racist thing. Skinheads put American flags on their clothing.
I don't think it is the same in Germany where I grew up. I still have friends there and go back. They have a problem with racists but a lot of it is stemming from East Germany and they had a different flag.

I don't think dispalying the flag on one's yard day in day out would be considered racist here either, but still a bit strange. Obviously other places even within Europe have differend practices. Still, it is true that there is a general difference between most of Europe and the US regarding the use of flags. People in the US use them more freely, with perhaps the exception of the Union Jack popular in clothes all over the world.

In my culture, a young man with a flag hanging from his car on a daily basis is undoubtetly ultra-nationalist, whereas someone displaying the flag on their front yard on a special celebration is only honoring the occation in a perfectly acceptable way. It is the way the flag is used that matters.

Admittely, there is a fashion here among teenages to wear jewelry with the Finnish coat of arms. It doesn't necessarily imply youre a devout racist, but to me it still implies a lack of breeding and is normally done only by "lower class" kids, not anyone well educated.

Anyway, I still don't understand the police officer. Poor taste isn't illegal.

Thank you for clearing that up. It is the way it is displayed isn't it?

I am English, not british. i am not a racist and i do hang up the st georges flag proudly. And i find it so hard to think that this will be the next step to stop anyone hanging the st georges flag, my husband has the st georges flag on his arm along with his arsenal shield.
and i agree with another poster here, my children no longer to christmas plays, because it may and does cause upset to others (whom are not english) again i am not racist.
Our kids nurserys are no longer allowed to sing bla bla balck sheep have you any wool as this is now considered racist.
Christmas lights are no longer called that, its now called winter lights.
School dinners have now changed Ie no pork incase someone who is not to eat pork east some.
Even in our childrens packed lunchs we are being told they can no longer have sausage rolls.

But the english flag thing? now that is just taking things to far imho.

personally, i'd be more upset about the packed lunch thing. after all, this is your child's lunch - s/he's not sharing it w/the whole school!

my bf, who is a police officer, says that the police officer had no reason to ask him to take down the flag. Having any flag in your car is not considered racist.
He says it is pretty unlikely that this man was stopped at all without some kind of record being kept, as police are legally obliged to record all stop they make on a form and offer a copy to the stoppee. If the man didn't receive a copy at the time, he can claim it from a police station within 12 months. It is also worth noting that there is no £30 fine for 'being racist', and the offence would likely be either inciting racial hatred (which would get him arrested or summonsed to court) or Racially Aggravated offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1988, also an arrest/summons offence that can not be dealt with summarily (i.e by a roadside fine). Both offences are an £80 fine and, if more serious, are punishable by up to 6 months imprisonment (2 years for s5 POA) and a fine not exceeding £5,000. Whatever the scenario, it seems that either the officer at the scene (who would have to be immensely incompetent) or the man, or the local paper has not got their facts straight, as even if the flag was 'racist' there is no way things would play out in this way...

You can probably tell he took over from me after the second line

I'd say that's more like it

It is political correctness gone crazy!

Like at Christmas when schools are told they can`t put up Christmas decorations as it may offend other religions

Totally rediculous

Ok, I had to chime in here, because this is disturbing even to me.

You have to have rabbits and squirrels instead of Cattle and Sheep at the nativity? You can't sing Bah Bah black sheep?

That is insane.

Personally I dislike ALL organized religion and believe there is no place for it in public schools. However if the schools display the religious holidays of all religions equally then I don't mind so much. This means if you are going to have Christian prayer etc in a public school then you must make allowances for the Muslim children to do their multiple times a day prayer to Mecca. Which all goes back to my believe in separation of Church and State...but then again I live in the U.S.

However forcing a change in someone's religion to accommodate others is very unacceptable. The manger was for sheep and cattle, PERIOD! It was basically the equivalent of a modern day barn, and I highly doubt the inn keeper was tending squirrels and bunnies. I feel bad for the Christians, as this is offensive even to me.

Christmas trees are Christmas trees for the Christian religions. Christmas lights are Christmas lights for the Christian religions. A Menorah is a Menorah.

As to the flag, all should be allowed to fly their national flag as their country deems appropriate. Ryn, I understand where you are coming from. I watched a documentary about Heavy Metal Music and all the different types. The hard core speed metal people said the "death metal" bands in Finland and Denmark really are "death" metal and most people were afraid of them. They have burned churches etc. So I know there is a small segment of the lunatic fringe there, just like here. Driving through rural Virginia I came across some people flying the confederate flag that were pretty scary. They were racists and proud of it.

That being said, they still cannot be arrested just for displaying the confederate flag.

I keep a window decal of the American flag on my car and replace it whenever it starts to fade. I'm proud to be an American and proud of my service to my country. I don't agree with everything my government does at home or abroad but what they do doesn't affect the love I have for my country.

What an Earth kind of document was that? Death metal bands are certainly not wreaking havoc here. I like death metal among other styles of music and know plenty of death metal people. They are not racist or violent, particulary Anti-Christian or feared by anyone.

No one is burning churches, though a couple of years ago a chruch was half-accidentally burned down by a drunk teenager showing off. In the 90's there were couple of cases of church burning in Norway. The perps were black metal people. Many black metal lyrics are Anti-Christian, but there is also Christian black metal. Some black metallists are a way too much in love with nazi-ish Viking stuff, but I believe they are a minority.The Norwegian phenomenon was very short lived and IMHO it was made out to be more than it was: plain career criminals committing yet another crime. It was just more sexy to write about Satanists. Most black metal listeners are not interested in burning anything or being violent. Generally they are normal people who just enjoy morbid aesthetics - a bit comical sometimes, but definately not scary.

OK, back to the topic, sorry for the hijack.

sorry, my turn now. But I will try to relate this back to the original topic.

Ryn, this was a documentary on the biography channel maybe last year. It was actually very well done. What you call death metal I think is what the documentary called speed metal, this was further broken down into death metal, then broken down again. Think of a family tree. I watched it because I happen to like many metal bands.

They interviewed all the bands they talked about, including the ones from Norway ( it was Norway and not Denmark) It was interesting because first Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Ronnie James Dio, Metallica were thought to be "Devil Worshipers". Then they went on to Megadeath, Anthrax, Slayer, Korn, and then into bands I didn't know. It was the very minor lunatics that were really into anti-christianity nationalism and purposely burned the churches in Norway.

I did not mean to imply that metal bands were wreaking havoc there. My point was that there is a small but very visible lunatic element that are associated with certain signs and symbols. The true "death" metal bands are one such. Unfortunately almost all metal music gets labeled as devil worshiping. Even Christian metal...go figure. At that is a whole other topic.

How all this relates to the original topic is symbolism. You stated that in Finland it would be the extremist nationalist who would display the flag in such a manner. Here in the states seeing the National Flag is common place. Often times the US flag will be flown above the individual State's flag. The new thing since the war are flag and ribbon magnets for the back of cars.

However I think placing the US flag over new car speaker would be frowned upon here as disrespectful. However, using a State flag in such a manner would not be considered as offensive. I would equate the Union Jack with the Stars and Stripes and the St. George to individual State flags.

In any case there is no way respectfully showing the US flag would be considered racism here.

The defunct confederate flag, however, is very much associated with racism. There are not a lot of people that do it, but when you see it you can pretty much assume that person still thinks the South won the civil war and Black people are sub human. It is disturbing and frightening to run into people like this.



From the article is sounds less like racism is going on but more like profiling. Just what is a "boy racer" Are they like the gang members here in the US that street drag illegally? Why would they specifically be taunting Polish people? I didn't get that statement about the Polish people.

Here racial profiling is a big issue. Black people driving expensive cars in a predominately white neighborhood can be guaranteed to be stopped by police. There is some basis to it, but the innocent get sucked into it as well as the criminals.

Since 9/11 this has happened with people of middle eastern decent. Since it was Arabs that bombed us, Arabs are going to be targeted. Again there is some logical basis to it, however many innocents get caught up and it is degrading to them. I find it interesting though that 18 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals and yet we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq. but I digress from the topic again....

I think I should just quit now before I take this in another tangent.

Ok, so maybe it was a matter of differend terms and the way journalists have of emphasizing things, sometimes out of porpotion.

OK a boy racer is the name given to the many teenage boys who have probably only just passed their driving test, yet think they are invincible on the road. They drive too fast, with loud music on and sit at traffic lights revving up their engines before doing a racing start. Actually, boy racer, is the least offensive name given to this type of driver - I won't tell you the other names, I'm sure you could guess a few!

As far as the comments on Polish people go, I'm guessing that this is because recently quite a lot of Poles have been coming to the UK to work, usually in horrible jobs that no-one else will do for the money on offer. The tabloid press have worked up to a frenzy about overcrowding (we ARE an overcrowded island mind you) and are blaming the Poles for all the problems in the world, or so it seems at times. I think the Poles have the last laugh here though as I have heard that in many places in Poland the economy is on the up and a lot of those who came here to work are now heading home for some decent wages. Whereas our own economy is going down the toilet and everyone is feeling the pinch.

I am proud of your service to this country too. I have relatives who fought in every American war going back to the Revolution.
I may have certain views about things but I never ever have anything negative to say about our vets. Ever.