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McCain also has a "pastor problem"

post #1 of 18
5/23/08 at 2:30pm
Thread Starter 
It looks like McCain, like Obama, is discovering that mixing politics and religious beliefs isn't such a good idea. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us...=1&oref=slogin
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052203141.html

I have to agree with this quote:
Quote:
"This is a perfect example of when politicians and religious leaders try to use each other, both of them end up getting hurt," said the Rev. Dr. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, a liberal religious group. "The reason that many of us talk about separating religion and politics is that they are two different parts of life, and they operate with different values and methods."
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post #2 of 18
5/23/08 at 3:01pm
This doesn't shock me at all. I will do the Snoopy dance the day that political figures stop taking endorsements from religious leaders.
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post #3 of 18
5/23/08 at 3:32pm
I agree with the quote. I think the press is desperate for sensational stories. That being said, what's done is done. I thought Obama handled it quite nicely when it was his turn. Now let's see what McCain does.
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post #4 of 18
5/23/08 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I agree with the quote. I think the press is desperate for sensational stories. That being said, what's done is done. I thought Obama handled it quite nicely when it was his turn. Now let's see what McCain does.
It seems certain now that Obama, the chosen candidate of the press, will in fact be the Democrat nominee. With Hillary soon to be out of the picture, the press is now setting its sights on McCain.

The Pastor Hagee news is old news. I don't see how this compares with the Rev. Wright debacle. And I disagree that Obama "handled it quite nicely". On the contrary, Obama's first reaction was to defend Wright, saying "I can no more disown him (Wright) than my white grandmother." Anyone remember that? Obama intended to stand with Wright despite the fact that it was painfully obvious, especially to Obama supporters, that the good Reverend was a racist who wasn't too fond of the US either. Obama only "disowned" Wright when the Rev continued to shoot his mouth off, making increasingly nutty comments as the weeks went on. For a supposedly brilliant guy, it took Obama an awfully long time to cut Wright loose.

In contrast, McCain disavowed immediately remarks Hagee made early in his endorsement. It was the right thing to do, but IMO McCain made a mistake by not walking away from Hagee altogether then. Now the press digs up comments Hagee made in the *90's* - did McCain even know this man then? Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years.
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post #5 of 18
5/23/08 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post

The Pastor Hagee news is old news.

I don't see how this compares with the Rev. Wright debacle. And I disagree that Obama "handled it quite nicely". On the contrary, Obama's first reaction was to defend Wright, saying "I can no more disown him (Wright) than my white grandmother." Anyone remember that?

Obama intended to stand with Wright despite the fact that it was painfully obvious, especially to Obama supporters, that the good Reverend was a racist who wasn't too fond of the US either. Obama only "disowned" Wright when the Rev continued to shoot his mouth off, making increasingly nutty comments as the weeks went on. For a supposedly brilliant guy, it took Obama an awfully long time to cut Wright loose.

In contrast, McCain disavowed immediately remarks Hagee made early in his endorsement. It was the right thing to do, but IMO McCain made a mistake by not walking away from Hagee altogether then. Now the press digs up comments Hagee made in the *90's* - did McCain even know this man then? Obama sat in Wright's church for 20 years.
yea all of those.
so the liberal press will just have to keep trying.
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post #6 of 18
5/23/08 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
And I disagree that Obama "handled it quite nicely". .
Just curious if you actually heard the full speech. I thought it was quite stirring, and evoked character and strength. At least, that's the way I thought it came across at the time. Though I agree that when the pastor continued to spout, he should have been quicker to distance himself.

But looking at it from another point: if someone who was close to you, and had been for a long time, was cast into the public spotlight, and this cast a negative reflection on you, what would be your first reaction? (1) stand up for him (2) turn your back on him. I thought he handled it nicely because he was able to disown what the man said without actually turning on him. In other words, somewhere between #1 and #2. Something I could never do, but something an adroit politician excels at.
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post #7 of 18
5/23/08 at 8:27pm
bottom line is until wright alled him a politician who would say whatever he needed to say for political expediency. that whole thaing was a set up for the news.

if one of my friend said something like i would say..
put down the crack pipe you have been smoking, and come back to the real world
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post #8 of 18
5/24/08 at 12:14pm
I think both men should have looked into the backgrounds of these guys BEFORE they linked themselves with them. Both should have known that these guys could cause trouble. It's their own fault. I love how both try to distance themselves AFTER the fact.
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post #9 of 18
5/24/08 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess View Post
I think both men should have looked into the backgrounds of these guys BEFORE they linked themselves with them.
My understanding of this is that as soon as McCain was aware that Pastor Hagee was making controversial remarks, he began to distance himself from Hagee. But sure, McCain's people could have done more thorough research on the pastor that might have prevented the association to begin with.

As for the Democrat candidate, I would have thought that two decades of listening to Rev. Wright would have given Obama a pretty good idea of what *his* pastor was all about.
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post #10 of 18
5/24/08 at 6:33pm
Maybe he just went to church to take a nap.
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post #11 of 18
5/24/08 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
I disagree that Obama "handled it quite nicely". On the contrary, Obama's first reaction was to defend Wright, saying "I can no more disown him (Wright) than my white grandmother." Anyone remember that? Obama intended to stand with Wright despite the fact that it was painfully obvious, especially to Obama supporters, that the good Reverend was a racist who wasn't too fond of the US either. Obama only "disowned" Wright when the Rev continued to shoot his mouth off, making increasingly nutty comments as the weeks went on. For a supposedly brilliant guy, it took Obama an awfully long time to cut Wright loose.
Yes, loyalty's a dreadful sin, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
if one of my friend said something like i would say.. put down the crack pipe you have been smoking, and come back to the real world
Perhaps he tried. Perhaps he had been trying for a long time before he cut him off. Since we all know all the presidential candidates so well, their whole lives, the things they've been doing since they were children, what they have for breakfast, what their beliefs are on every single subject, it of course makes sense that you would know everything that Obama did during his relationship with Wright.

It's old news when it's McCain, it's shock and awe when it's Obama. How very tiresome and predictable.
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post #12 of 18
5/25/08 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
My understanding of this is that as soon as McCain was aware that Pastor Hagee was making controversial remarks, he began to distance himself from Hagee. But sure, McCain's people could have done more thorough research on the pastor that might have prevented the association to begin with.

As for the Democrat candidate, I would have thought that two decades of listening to Rev. Wright would have given Obama a pretty good idea of what *his* pastor was all about.

they are just trying to link mccain to someone.
Bottom line is they failed. these are not people that Mccain had any real ties to.

I saw the whole serman the guy gave.
It was about why bad things happen to good people. ETC.
to say this is the same as obama friendship with wright, is a lie.
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post #13 of 18
5/25/08 at 10:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
they are just trying to link mccain to someone.
Bottom line is they failed. these are not people that Mccain had any real ties to.

I saw the whole serman the guy gave.
It was about why bad things happen to good people. ETC.
to say this is the same as obama friendship with wright, is a lie.
Where are you getting the impression that "they" (?) are trying to link McCain with undesirables the same way Obama had been linked to Wright?

The point of the article was that McCain rejected the endorsements of people he didn't know when he learned what the pastors had preached, which isn't comparable to Obama's situation.

Obviously, endorsements from religious groups can be a two-edged sword. That's the similarity.
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post #14 of 18
5/25/08 at 11:46am
Not comparable at all, but nice try by the media.

The media is trying its best to elect our next President, I wonder if they will succeed. Because you KNOW the media knows best.
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post #15 of 18
5/25/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Yes, loyalty's a dreadful sin, isn't it?


Perhaps he tried. Perhaps he had been trying for a long time before he cut him off. Since we all know all the presidential candidates so well, their whole lives, the things they've been doing since they were children, what they have for breakfast, what their beliefs are on every single subject, it of course makes sense that you would know everything that Obama did during his relationship with Wright.

It's old news when it's McCain, it's shock and awe when it's Obama. How very tiresome and predictable.
That argument makes no sense. We, as people, don't care what he had for breakfast, but we DO care about who he is associating with, and who is influencing him. Wright was his Pastor for 20 years, and Wright's "teachings" attacked the majority of the nation (at least, I think white people are still in the majority...not sure now). It wasn't until it started to affect him that Obama said he disageed with Wright's ideas.

With McCain, it was just someone that wanted to endorse him and he shot that down pretty fast. Endorsement and actual association are two different things.
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post #16 of 18
5/25/08 at 12:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
With McCain, it was just someone that wanted to endorse him and he shot that down pretty fast. Endorsement and actual association are two different things.
Exactly! That was my interpretation of the article, but obviously some people didn't read the article carefully enough.
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post #17 of 18
5/25/08 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Not comparable at all, but nice try by the media.

The media is trying its best to elect our next President, I wonder if they will succeed. Because you KNOW the media knows best.
It is the media that gave us George Bush and helped with the case to go into Iraq so I agree that the media really doesn't know best.

As to the McCain affair, it is my impression that the McCain campaign was actually seeking the endorsement but had to do a 180 when his statements came out.
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post #18 of 18
5/25/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Where are you getting the impression that "they" (?) are trying to link McCain with undesirables the same way Obama had been linked to Wright?

The point of the article was that McCain rejected the endorsements of people he didn't know when he learned what the pastors had preached, which isn't comparable to Obama's situation.
lol but you see that was not what they where showing on NBC,
or msnbc TV, they never showed the rejected endorsements or showed, any of the back ground. Which is mccain barley even knows them.
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