Texas Illegally Seized Polygamist Sect’s Children - Page 4

I would call that a very reasonable condition.

Joseph Smith did NOT write the Book of Mormon, all he did was translate it.

According to Joseph Smith, that is......

That's like saying the Bible is the inspired word of God, according to St. Paul, who is the one who said that and wrote it down.

So, one can no more be proved or disproved any more than the other. We're left with depending on the veracity of one long since departed.

Paul didn't write the entire Bible.

And the Holy Bible IS the inspired word of God.

This thread is going again. Just a reminder: This is a discussion of Texas having seized all these children, not of the Bible or the Book of Mormon.
Please go , or the thread will be

I just wish the mother's of those children would open up their eyes and stop being Stepford wives. They need to protect their children.

Yes, they do, but I imagine that having been raised in this sect, and cut off from the mainstream all their lives, they don't know of any other way of life.

Most of the kids have probably been exposed to television and the mainstream print media in the foster homes for the first time in their lives, and I have to wonder what impact that will have?

They have probably been exposed to and become addicted to video games by now. Oh the horror.
But you got me thinking now. Do you think that all the horrid men in that cult will go all out to, for lack of a better word, exorcize the evil from our society that they think will be embedded in those kid's now? That is a scary thought.
Will they think that those kid's are tainted now?

That's what I'm wondering. I've read Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven" http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-H...2273155&sr=8-1
as well as other books about FLDS, and I can really imagine that most of the sect's leaders will consider the kids "tainted".
http://www.amazon.com/4-OCLOCK-MURDE...2273492&sr=8-9
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=...Mozilla-search

I really hope that Texas CPS are able to keep their eye on those children.
And account for all of them on a regular basis.

I am so disappointed in the Texas Supreme Court ruling. These children need protection from the rulers of this cult. In fact, so do the men and women who have been born into it and brainwashed from infancy.

It is not a religion when it denies its members such basic experiences as reading newspapers and magazines, deciding who they want to marry, staying with the partner they choose and even being able to protect their own children from being thrown out or "married" at the age of 12. (I got so sick when I saw that picture of Jeffs kissing a 12-year-old girl).

Some people seem to think because Warren Jeffs is in jail, everything is ok now. They can't see that the leaders he left behind are likely to be just as bad. The pressure to have more women and girls to marry is still there and has to be solved somehow. That means boys thrown out and girls married at younger ages.

I don't understand why it can't be ended legally. Maybe all the welfare and government money that is subsidizing them can be cut off. I'm not against welfare -- I had to use it myself for awhile -- but I don't see subsidizing these men so that they can have more than one wife and dozens of children.

Is none of the things that go on in that place a civil rights violation, or something that the federal authorities could get cracking on???

There were FBI warrants to seize information from the ranch. On one message board I read a lawyer was speculating that that Mann Act might be involved.

The Mann Act has been applied to polygamist before. It forbids taking anyone across state lines for sex, or an illegal polygamous marriage.

The information from fomer members indicates that this has happened. Women and girls were being moving from Utah, Arizona, Colorado and even Canada to marry men at the ranch. I hope they catch at least a few.

http://www.drbilllong.com/FreeExercise/Cleveland.html

This is a link to the Mann Act decision affecting moving a woman across state lines for the purpose of a polygamous marriage. Experts say it is a strained interpretation, but there is legal precendent.

Personally, I don't think everything is okay because Warren Jeffs is in jail. I simply think putting the people in jail who are causing the problem is the way to solve the problem. Maybe come other people need to be in jail, too. But the kids don't need to be foster care.

I certainly think that there should be regular CPS monitoring of the compound, regular investigations, and judicial and police power used to back all of that up.

I just don't think taking all of the children away solved any problems, or was supported by evidence. How is the newborn male child of a women in her early twenties at immediate risk of being sexually abused? If there is some specific evidence or specific complaints that the parents have physically abused babies in the past, then, maybe the newborn male child should be a ward of the court. But sex between older men and very young post-pubescent children does not risk the safety or well being of a male infant.

In fact, it doesn't risk the safety or well being of any child who has not yet reached puberty. The only reason to take the pre-pubescent children away is to try to break up the group. And that's not the job of the CPS, or, indeed, anyone else in US state, federal, or local governments.

The CPS said underage sex = sexual abuse, sexual abuse in household = all children removed, household = entire compound, therefore all of the children & adolescents need to be removed. Texas law supports the first and second equalities, and the third one is an absurd, illegal, overstepping of authority. The Texas higher courts rightfully saw the distinction.

To take your kids away, a governmental body has to prove that your kid is in danger, not that a kid next door to you (even you're kid's best friend that spends as much time as possible with your kid) has a dad who has had sex with underage girls. The CPS is within its rights to take kids away from offenders and prevent offenders from seeing children, but it has no right or power to talk kids away from their parents in the absence of any evidence or even reasonable assumption that they are in danger from their parents.

It's especially important here to remember that girls are only in danger of having sex with older men when the girls reach puberty. Adolescents, not children (defined as pre-pubescent) are in danger.

I agree Katie. I saw more than that one picture of Warren Jeffs and that girl, they showed many more on Fox News on Bill O'Reilly and it was bad, real bad.
Bill O'Reilly goes ballistic on pedophiles, he is on a mission against all pedophiles for sure.

I have heard of infants being sexually molested, not saying it is happening at the YFZ ranch but it has happened. I can bear the thought of it.

I've already posted my belief that polygamy itself produces the tension that leads to sexual abuse of girls and the need to push older boys and young men out of the group. Even grown men have had their wives taken from them and given to other men.

This isn't a religion it is a sect. The children are brainwashed from infancy and given no alternatives. Yes, I think it should be broken up. Yes, there will be suffering by the children and adults.

The alternative is to allow it to go on and continue to grow and be a burden on the greater society. We are the ones that must take care of the boys and young men who appear on the streets with no survival or working skills. We are supporting the large families that one husband with many "wives" cannot support through government tax breaks and welfare fraud.

This sect is causing much suffering. They are practicing polygamy -- which is illegal for good reason..

That "bleeding the beast" thing really infuriates me. Oh yeah, we, the taxpayers, are the "beast" for giving them money. Ingrates, one and all.

Aha; okie dokie, thank you

I probably could have googled that if I weren't so darned lazy.

I know it and I so with you on that. I don't want to pay for someone else's weird marital arrangements. The sect is super wealthy so there is absolutely no excuse.

I've noticed that they don't seem to have any problems hiring lawyers to defend their dirty little secrets.

I hope that the authorities can use the facts in the lawsuit filed by the Lost Boys in closely monitoring the children who get returned. I cannot imagine these women allowing such atrocities - I once saw a documentary several years ago when the "Lost Boys" first spoke up - one of the boys who later commited suicide claimed that he had been sodomized during bible classes and that he had to try not to cry, to prove to God that he would be tough enough to grow up to carry on God's work. The Boys' stories were credible enough for them to win their lawsuit - hopefully, they will be credible enough for Texas to use to protect the other little boys in those compounds.
I cannot find a link to the documentary (it was either on FreeSpeechTV or WorldLinkTC) but I did find these links which are mostly about the Lost Boys' lawsuits:
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blog...olygamist.html
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695263156,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...a.julianborger

America does a disgraceful job of protecting its most vulnerable. I'm ashamed of her for that.

But you're vehemently against universal health insurance? Really, Cindy, you're a hard one to figure out. Your positions on different issues are at odds with each other.

Very true. Does anyone stop and think where does all those $$ come from?

I agree very much.

No they aren't, you just think they are.

No. They don't. They have probably hired a PR firm and the whole shebang to spin the facts. They want it to look like it did the last time children were removed in the 50s. There was public outcry about children being ripped away from their mothers so under pressure the children were returned. Hopefully this time people see through their protestations. Child abuse was rampant because there was no one to tell. The stories the escapees tell are heartbreaking.

A child-abuse specialist on the Nancy Grace show did a great job of analyzing the situation, which she is well versed on. She said that those chilren do not have the same child/mother bonds that we have in mainstream culture - the church regularly separates mothers from their actual children and switches them around, frequently back and forth, among the "spiritual" families. So most of us cannot even fathom what those children go through and their mothers cannot and/or do not protect them from the brainwashing into accepting their eventual victimization.

That makes no sense. You can still believe in Jesus Christ and not be considered one of the "faithful."

Jesus Christ was a person. Some hold him as a devine being because they believe he died on a cross and was resurrected 4 days later. Others believe he was just a holy man who preached scripture. Satan could very well be the later. Obviously he believes in God because he was by God as an Angel at one time until he was cast out. Now he's a Fallen Angel. He doesn't have to believe that God had a son via a virgin birth and that son died on the cross and was resurrected.

Satan is not strictly a "Christian" belief. The Jewish faith which doesn't believe in the New Testament or Christ, also believe in Satan.