TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › A party vs nominee question
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

A party vs nominee question

post #1 of 35
5/21/08 at 3:00am
Thread Starter 
I got to thinking on the way home. On the political forum I am on a young woman posted that if Hillary didn't win the nomination she was going to vote for McCain.

I wondered - what would the `democrats' here do? Could you be so incensed that Hillary lost, or dislike Obama so much, that you would vote against your party and effectively defeat the purpose of having a democratic nominee at all?

I plan to do this in our next state election. Our current premier (leader of our state) is a hopeless, bullying idiot who has mismanaged our health system and various other things to the point where, for the first time in my life, I am going to actively vote for the Liberal party (our conservative party) in our next state election. And their leader's a moron, too. But he's not as bad as the current one, and I'll do anything to get him out of power.

So, whilst I am highly loyal to my party - the Australian Labor Party - I HATE our premier so much that I won't vote for him. On a federal level, though, I'd still vote Labor and that is what I guess I'm asking here.

If Hillary loses, and you wanted her to win, and you are a Democrat, will you vote for Obama or McCain?
Reply
post #2 of 35
5/21/08 at 7:54am
I believe many democrats that are for Hilary will vote for McCain.
Because of the fact that McCain is very moderate for a Republican. He is bi-partisan on many issues, has worked with Senator Kennedy drafting legislation, etc.
If anyone other than McCain were running, those people would have sucked it up and voted for Obama. That is the reason why I believe McCain is the best person to run on the Republican ticket.
Reply
post #3 of 35
5/21/08 at 10:44am
I am going to have a real problem with Hillary out of the picture. I have no confidence whatsoever in Obama, but I can't vote for McCain because I want to see us out of Iraq ASAP. The lesser of 2 evils is tough decision. Either way, I think the light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

I detest the 2 party system. I don't want to throw my vote away (again) by voting for someone other than the 2 candidates.
Reply
post #4 of 35
5/21/08 at 12:42pm
Don't kid yourself, whoever gets in is NOT going to immediately withdraw from Iraq. They may say they will but they won't. They can't
Reply
post #5 of 35
5/21/08 at 2:06pm
Well I'm just the opposite with regards to Hillary. I detest her almost as much as I detest Bush. I used to say I'd vote for McCain if Obama lost, because I can't stand the idea of Hillary in the office. However, I've changed my mind. As much as I DETEST her, I will vote for her if it's between her and McCain. He may be a moderate Republican, but he's against giving equal pay and equal opportunities to women and minorities, I read his agenda. He is also Pro War. Nope, I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me, and I hope other Democrats stop and think before they give their vote to McCain.
Reply
post #6 of 35
5/21/08 at 2:15pm
Pro War, are you kidding me? Of the 3 candidates he is the LEAST likely to go to War IMO. He knows first hand the horrors of War.

I also do not believe he is against equal pay for women and minorities.
You need to back that claim up with a link Hope.
Reply
post #7 of 35
5/21/08 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I believe many democrats that are for Hilary will vote for McCain.
Because of the fact that McCain is very moderate for a Republican. He is bi-partisan on many issues, has worked with Senator Kennedy drafting legislation, etc.
If anyone other than McCain were running, those people would have sucked it up and voted for Obama. That is the reason why I believe McCain is the best person to run on the Republican ticket.
I totally agree with Cindy! McCain is so close to middle ground in his moderation, that he actually (IMO) comes closer to the majority of the voters than candidates that lean heavily in either direction. It would seem to me, that the majority of voters have pro's/con's with both parties, and middle of the road is where we actually want to be.
Reply
post #8 of 35
5/21/08 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Pro War, are you kidding me? Of the 3 candidates he is the LEAST likely to go to War IMO. He knows first hand the horrors of War.

I also do not believe he is against equal pay for women and minorities.
You need to back that claim up with a link Hope.
I found it on a site that has all of the candidate, and then lists their agenda's. If I can find it again, I will add a link, but it had ALL of the candidates including those that aren't Democrat and Republican.
Reply
post #9 of 35
5/21/08 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
I found it on a site that has all of the candidate, and then lists their agenda's. If I can find it again, I will add a link, but it had ALL of the candidates including those that aren't Democrat and Republican.
maybe The League of Women Voters? they have a PDF you can download here.
i always look at their info before finally deciding on a candidate!
Reply
post #10 of 35
5/21/08 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
I think I remember reading, though, that Hillary has been urging people to present a united front at the election in November, even if she doesn't win the nomination. Surely her supporters will listen to her?
Reply
post #11 of 35
5/21/08 at 6:27pm
I wonder how much of the "my nominee or none!" bluster is just that. When it comes down to it, Hillary and Obama are not that far apart in their ideas.

I mean, I hear Ann Coulter said she would vote for Hillary before McCain, and I think she's backed off that recently. It's easy to say something like that when the election is 6 months away, not so easy to do it when it's time to walk in the booth and pull the lever.
Reply
post #12 of 35
5/21/08 at 8:42pm
I think Hillary supporters are just "saying" they'll vote for McCain if Obama becomes the Democratic Nominee, and vice versa. I know I said it previously, upon thinking Clinton would win. However, all you have to do is look at the past 7 plus years, and realize you don't want another 4 years of the same thing. McCain supports The Patriot Act, and he supports the current administration when it comes to Iraq and Iran. The Patriot act I believe to be the biggest threat to our American Freedom as anything that has ever been pushed on us. Actually, it has taken AWAY our Freedoms. So, I would vote for anyone who is AGAINST the Patriot Act. So, yes, if Obama doesn't win the Democratic Nominee, much as it pains me, I'll vote for Hillary. We need a BIG change, and we needed it yesterday.
Reply
post #13 of 35
5/21/08 at 9:18pm
there is a difference between change of course,and crashing the bus.

i dont agree with mccain on alot of things.
i agree with hillary(and the ties to china) even less.
the only thing i agree with obama on is that its time to change
the stance with cuba. Outside of that i see obama as threat the security of the united states.

None of them will get us out of the war in iraq. No matter what they say.
however obama may try to change sides in it.
Reply
post #14 of 35
5/22/08 at 12:04am
Thread Starter 
So then who out of the three would you vote for - if you could choose between the three of them?
Reply
post #15 of 35
5/22/08 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
So then who out of the three would you vote for - if you could choose between the three of them?
hmm vote for me oh wait i am to lazy.

anway, i guess if i have to pick one, it would be mccain. Dont get me wrong, i disagree with him on several topics.

IMO the dem have no hope of winning, if they run Obama.
Right now, polls in the many of the big states and swing states show mccain at time with double digits lead over obama. How vs hillary, the are really to close to call

However i dont see how the Dem can get out of running obama. without upsetting, a big part of there party.
THe dem have lost almost all of the blue collar support(you know the people that work for a living) over the years. Accept for some of the old timers. Who vote Dem no matter who is running.

Bill was able to hide, how messed up he was, and his ties to chinese money, john kerry did not fool people(i know people who had not voted in 20 years + show up tovote aganist him his past came back to hunt him really.

dem are once again are showing how to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. So far america has never showen itself to be willing to vote for a super liberal presdents.
Reply
post #16 of 35
5/22/08 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Don't kid yourself, whoever gets in is NOT going to immediately withdraw from Iraq. They may say they will but they won't. They can't
Not kidding - I believe that McCain will keep us there longer.
Reply
post #17 of 35
5/22/08 at 7:44am
Well, a quick historical review will show that we are more likely to go to war, and more likely to stay in it, with a Democrat in the Presidency than with a Republican. But, as with all statistics, arguing from the general (past history) to the specific (what might happen next year) is very difficult.

You can't get farther away from Bush than McCain, and stay in the Republican party, unless you went to Olympia Snow or Lincoln Chafee. And they aren't running, and wouldn't win if they did.

Is Kinky Friedman going to be on the ballot?
Reply
post #18 of 35
5/22/08 at 8:41am
lol i know alot of people who say mccain belongs in the DEM party. lol oh wait i have said that
Reply
post #19 of 35
5/22/08 at 12:51pm
I don't know how it is in Australia, but voters here do not have much party loyalty. That isn't viewed as a positive thing. People generally consider themselves as aligned more closely with whichever party, or with none, rather than saying "I am a Democrat" or "I am a Republican".

Most voters, also, couldn't care less what is good for the party, or what their strategy is. It's more like a contest between two sports teams where the people on the sidelines are fans, but not part, of the team.

People will, and should, vote for whoever they think will do what they want them to.

I, personally, would have a real hard time voting for Clinton, but luckily I will never be in that situation. A lot of the people who are saying they won't vote for Obama will get over it in time and realize they're acting on emotion, and a lot of them won't and will vote for McCain. And of course a few will decide that McCain's politics are actually closer to theirs than Obama's.

And then, there's always the "Democrats" who were committing fraud by "voting" for Clinton at the behest of Rush Limbaugh in order to rig the election in a way they viewed as favorable to themselves. I don't know how those people look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, or why they aren't being prosecuted by the hundreds, but it showed yet another flaw in both the American people and the primary system. So, quite a few of those votes for Clinton were not real.
Reply
post #20 of 35
5/22/08 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I don't know how it is in Australia, but voters here do not have much party loyalty. ....
People will, and should, vote for whoever they think will do what they want them to.
The same is true in Congress - senators and representatives can, and do, vote against their own party's line. In other words, there's not as much "party discipline" as in many other countries. We have Congressional "whips", but I don't think they have the influence whips in European parliaments, for instance, have.

While I'm sure there are people who vote "straight tickets", meaning give their votes only to candidates of a certain party, I imagine more voters "split the ticket", voting for candidates they feel best suited for a particular post.

Germans consider their country to be very democratic, so I have to chuckle when I see the looks of disbelief when I say that district attorneys and many lower court judges are elected in the U.S., not appointed for life.

While there are obvious weaknesses in the U.S. system, for example, only two major parties, the Electoral College, the current problems with the new Democratic Party primary process, I still believe that the U.S. system actually gives a lot more freedom of choice to voters than that of many other countries.
Reply
post #21 of 35
5/22/08 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
And then, there's always the "Democrats" who were committing fraud by "voting" for Clinton at the behest of Rush Limbaugh in order to rig the election in a way they viewed as favorable to themselves. I don't know how those people look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, or why they aren't being prosecuted by the hundreds, but it showed yet another flaw in both the American people and the primary system. So, quite a few of those votes for Clinton were not real.
Why should they be prosecuted? They didn't break any laws...in fact, crossing party lines to vote in the primaries was only promoted in states that either allowed cross-party/open voting or allowed people to switch their declared party affiliation shortly before the election with no penalty. Maybe the laws need to change, but playing games within the given system shouldn't be penalized. The GOP race is finished and there's not a thing to be gained or lost by voting in the remaining GOP primaries. BTW, the point of "Operation Chaos" was simply to draw out the race and show the public more of what these candidates really are. It's worked. Frankly, I don't think the Dems needed Rush Limbaugh to do that. Hillary wasn't going to give up, and there were still states where she had a substantial lead (WV, KY).

My orthopedic surgeon and I talked briefly about the primary (it was the day I had surgery). She told me that she's a Democrat, but she is registered Republican just so she can vote in the primaries to keep the far right out of the elections. Obviously it doesn't matter what party you're registered as in the general election, you can vote for anyone. Should people like her be prosecuted too? Although Mitt Romney won the primary here, I'm sure she didn't vote for him!
Reply
post #22 of 35
5/22/08 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
While I'm sure there are people who vote "straight tickets", meaning give their votes only to candidates of a certain party, I imagine more voters "split the ticket", voting for candidates they feel best suited for a particular post.
I do; I always voted for Mike DeWine (a very conservative Senator) because even though he disagreed with me about pretty much every issue he did a really good job at representing Ohio and really cared about people. I had lunch with him once in high school, and he was a genuinely good person. I was sad when he lost most recently, because I think he got swept up in the anti-Taft craziness. I voted for Senator Voinovich for the same reason, and I'm proud of what he's done as well. He's stood up to Bush on his more insane policies, etc.

I really think they should do away with that little box you can check for "All Democrat" or "All Republican". If you can't be bothered to know more than the party of the person you're voting for, you probably shouldn't be voting until you can take a minute to read about what they believe.
Reply
post #23 of 35
5/22/08 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I really think they should do away with that little box you can check for "All Democrat" or "All Republican".
That's seriously an option on your ballots?!?!? We sure don't have that on any of the ones here in Colorado. That's just ludicrous!
Reply
post #24 of 35
5/22/08 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
That's seriously an option on your ballots?!?!? We sure don't have that on any of the ones here in Colorado. That's just ludicrous!
I'm not sure if it is on the new electronic ones, but I remember very clearly being taken to the polls with my parents (who have never missed a one since they were married in '68) and being lectured on never using it. And when my mom worked the polls they still had it, and she would also come home and voice her quiet disgust with the people who used it. You can tell, because they only had to punch one hole, and if you don't have to think about anything it doesn't take too long to vote.

Maybe they've wised up and discontinued it. I hope so!
Reply
post #25 of 35
5/22/08 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I'm not sure if it is on the new electronic ones, but I remember very clearly being taken to the polls with my parents (who have never missed a one since they were married in '68) and being lectured on never using it. And when my mom worked the polls they still had it, and she would also come home and voice her quiet disgust with the people who used it. You can tell, because they only had to punch one hole, and if you don't have to think about anything it doesn't take too long to vote.

Maybe they've wised up and discontinued it. I hope so!
it's an option on our electronic tickets. i know, because i don't vote the 'straight ticket' - altho i have occasionally ended up voting for all of the candidates w/in a certain party. but i voted each one individually - because i didn't remember which party everyone was affiliated with - i just remembered the names.
Reply
post #26 of 35
5/22/08 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post

. A lot of the people who are saying they won't vote for Obama will get over it in time and realize they're acting on emotion, and a lot of them won't and will vote for McCain. And of course a few will decide that McCain's politics are actually closer to theirs than Obama's.
lol i dont see how anyone, that says they are american can vote for someone like obama
Reply
post #27 of 35
5/22/08 at 6:26pm
Thread Starter 
A lot of people feel and felt that way about Bush.

Politics and politicians are always going to get people riled up and be polarising - we're just lucky we live in countries where we can pretty much talk about it and say what we want without being silenced, imprisoned - or worse - killed over it.
Reply
post #28 of 35
5/22/08 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
A lot of people feel and felt that way about Bush.
that was just there idea, cause they did not like him.
not based on facts.

My and many others feeling for obama are based on his actions and statments.
Reply
post #29 of 35
5/23/08 at 1:23am
Thread Starter 
As are my and many other's feelings about Bush.
Reply
post #30 of 35
5/23/08 at 1:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
As are my and many other's feelings about Bush.
sorry but yours does not count, your not american

there dislike is
Not based on bush's statments,bush's wife statement, bush rev statement, bush's friends statement. they may disagree with the stuff he has done, But its not the same

once again not based in facts
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › A party vs nominee question