California finally came to its senses - Page 2  

It's about blinking time! Now if the other states will just follow suit!

One of the reasons I'm proud to be a Canadian is because we don't live in the dark ages and are actually progressive with changes. It's been legal for same sex couples to be married in Canada for several years already.

No one will ever convience me that gay marriage is ok. Its not. Plain and simple. I answer to a higher power who has authority over all! God's wrath will be shown soon.

no one is saying they are not. if they want to be gay, fine be gay.



because its wrong.
life is not gray, something are just wrong, no matter how you look at it.
and gay marriage is one of those.

It's always funny to me when people use their own religion as an excuse to defend something they believe not to be right.

If the country is freedom of religion, and you base your opinion on it. Then that's on you. You can't force people to have the same belief as yours. It's not right.

People who protest against gay marriage are effecting other peoples lives personally. People who are gay and want to get married, aren't bothering no one. They get married, and go on to live their lives the way they see fit. Who cares? Do right by yourself leave other peeps alone.

Excellent post, Laureen. Can't wait to see the answers to that one.


I agree completely with both of you. But I'm sure I didn't need to say that.

As I have said here before, then where does it end???? Who's to stop someone from marrying a 12 year old???? There has to be some moral code, and the basis for it in this country is the Bible. Written word, not some literal interpretation or opinion.

Why can't gays just keep on living their lives and leave other people alone? Why should what has shown to be the majority of people have to change how they feel???

I don't believe in the bible. It means nothing to me. I would never in a million years use it for a moral compass. I believe in common sense. That's what I live my life by. So far so good.

I truly hope that continues to work out for you. I'd say I'll ask you in the afterlife, but I don't think my belief system would allow me to think you'll be in the same place as me.

Common sense is not a bad leg to stand on. After all, a number of fine examples of it are used throughout various religions.

That's a slippery slope... recognizing gay unions does not imply anything about pedophilia. Two consenting adults who love each other should receive the same spousal rights whether they're heterosexual or homosexual.

How are the gays bothering you by being married? They aren't doing anything to you by getting married, and you don't have to change the way you feel about it.
But, if a homosexual couple is living as married for the whole of their lives, they deserve the same legal rights as heterosexual couples, should one of them happen to die. How does this have anything to do with you?

Maybe you should read the actual post I was replying to and not take what I said out of context???? I was answering directly to things said by someone else, not putting out fodder for someone to attack me on.

And for the record, if a company wants to extend medical benefits to same sex partners, or a bank wants to give them a joint loan for a home, I have no issue with that.

I couldn't have said it better myself. They aren't hurting anyone and if there are people out there that have a problem with it, then they are only hurting themselves by stressing over it.

That's something a lot of people forget about. They just want to make the constitution convenient to suite their own purpose and not be open-minded to include every single citizen that belongs to this country.

Gays pay taxes, most are well-educated, and can provide better for children than a lot of heterosexual couples. Why should their rights be any different from any other U.S. citizen?

Personally, I really don't care who marries whom. If they want to get married, then that should be their choice. They just want to be like any other married couple.

The non-believers will never understand how much harm will happen when gays marry and force their beliefs that its ok. How can we possibly explain it to you? You don't understand the long term impact on things - family, marriage, etc. You only see the short term.

Those that believe the truth of God and the Bible know the answer. In the end times (which is now) it will be "the good will be bad and the bad will be good" - the believers know what that means.

True Christians will be persecuted for their beliefs (its happening more and more) - but that doesn't change the truth of God's word.

I did read the actual post you were replying to????
I wasn't attacking you, I was disagreeing with you.

What did I take out of context? You said, "Why can't gays just keep on living their lives and leave other people alone?" I replied by asking you a legitimate question.

I've never heard or known any gay to ever force their beliefs on me. To be honest, they are quite the opposite. Most are very friendly and honest.

Have you ever talked to a gay person? Do you know this personally or is this just what you have heard from others?

The OP I quoted said "why can't people just leave gays alone and let them live their lives?" and my reply was to that.

What's good for the goose works for the gander.

I agree totally. If you aren't gay you aren't going to want to marry someone of your same sex. However, with a law in place allowing it, those that do want to can. It hurts no one.

What this world lacks is tolerance for other people and their beliefs. Beliefs that hurt no one.

Good Post! This will continue to be an ongoing battle for many states.

A bit ironic that marriage is an exception to this statement.

I still don't understand what you mean by gays leaving other people alone. They're trying to leave other people alone- and marry each other.

It doesn't have anything to do with undermining marriages between heterosexuals, or even undermining religion.

They're engaging in a practice they find enjoyable because they love each other, want to protect their interests as a couple, and really aren't hurting anybody.

The tolerance goes both ways.

Isn't that what I said?

I truely believe that marriage is a sacred covenant made between a man and a woman. I do not agree with gay marriages.

funny most of the laws you live by in this country,and in fact most western countries are based on that.

anyway to blunt about it,

any guy that can look at another guy hairy butt, and think, man i want to get with that. has issues.

I tell that to paul all the time when he brings up some new guy he likes.( gay guy that i am friends with)

I'm a catholic by birth. I go to church because I have to. I don't believe on all that "jazz"....God, the Bible, yadda yadda.

I believe in living life to its fullest, in being happy. What comes after death is something one can only wonder.

Now, what right does anyone have to ban gay marriage? You are banning gays right to happiness.

I do agree with Nikki, marriage is a sacred union between a man & a woman. I think there should be an "alternative" for gays because I have no doubt that many find the fact that gays get married offensive. (Although, I'm sure if there were seperate things like "marriage" for a man/woman & "unions" for the gays, that would open a whole different issue)

I don't think there are gay couples rushing out there to get married to spite people (although I do not doubt there are gay couples doing it just for spite, as there are men/women who get married for spite). I think gay couples are getting married as they have every right to happiness the same way you or I do.

I am inclined to agree wholeheartedly with Natalie_ca when she said:

You have every right to believe in gay marriage or not. Whether it be a church marriage, or a union by a city official, or whatever it is.....I don't see how we can ban someone the freedom of happiness, if that's what would make them happy.

I won't argue with whether or not gay marriage is "right" or "wrong" because every individual must make that decision themselves. This is a free country, after all.

well, thanks - but so far, yours is the only one
i'm not bashing gays - one of my dearest friends is gay. i know he is - he knows my beliefs. it's an 'agree to disagree' situation, & we're fine w/that.
i truly believe a legal partnership for ALL couples is becoming somewhat necessary in this country. i DON'T believe it needs to have the name 'marriage' to be legal. common law marriage is recognized in my state [& probably others].
this is the situation we need to address - if the majority of the country truly believes that a legal recognition of same-sex couples is necessary, let's change our terminology.
many countrys that are not based on a Judeo-Christian background have something similar. the legal union is separate from the spiritual one. couples who don't have a religious affiliation simply get the legal union.
i'd prefer to see that, myself. doesn't offend me as much.
but perhaps i'm investing the word 'marriage' w/too much meaning?
wikipedia definition of marriage: Marriage is an institution in which interpersonal relationships (usually intimate and sexual) are sanctioned with governmental, social, or religious recognition. It is often created by a contract or through civil processes. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution, in accordance with marriage laws of the land.
i think the religious would be more open to a legal union status... but many same sex couples i know would not be.
perhaps they're in the minority?

People of California voted on this issue in 2000. 61% of the People of California voted that same sex marriages should not be legalized.

the nuts in black robes overturned the will of the People and made politics while ignoring the law.

Proposition 183 (IIRC) was overwhelmingly passed to deny benefits to illegal aliens. It too has been circumvented in the courts.

The phrase "We the People" is a mockery.

One thing I find upsetting and offensive is when Conservative Christians refer to those of us who believe in giving basic human rights to ALL people, as Non Believers. I AM a Believer, however I do believe The Bible is also based on interpretation, and not everyone's interpretation is exactly the same. I also believe in seperation of Church and State, and that one's religious belief's should NOT be a part of what Govern's the laws of the land.

Allowing Gay's the same rights and heterosexual people will not have any affect on Heterosexual marriage, nor will it cause more people to BECOME Gay. A person is either Gay or not. If Gay people are refused the basic human rights that straight people have, it is NOT going to make these people BECOME straight. They will live the same lifestyle, either way. The major difference is that without the same basic human rights, the Gay couple's are not allowed the legal rights that straight couples have. So, I see this more as a Government issue than a Religious Issue. To deny Gay people the same legal rights, based on religious belief's is just plain bigoted IMO.

i have said along, the goverment period has no business in marriage, both at federal or state level.

Marriage is a religious affair. not the business of the goverment.

the people there already voted it down. But the will of the people was not followed once again.

You're funny! Even though I disagree with you about this or that, I really enjoy your bluntness and honesty.

I wouldn't be offended if my secular marriage (I should also add that I'm not actually married!)were referred to as a "civil union." (I'm heterosexual.) The relationship is what you make it out to be. The important issue, to me, would be legal recognition. Some may feel a different name to be discriminatory, and others might still not approve because it's the same thing with a different name. (Can't please everybody, huh? )

If that's all it's about, then there'd be no problem. But having a court decision writes it into law, which affects everybody, because everybody is under the law. So then that forces them against their will into a conflict between law and belief.

Personally, I think "don't ask don't tell" was a pretty good way of handling it.

That's a brilliant suggestion....I don't suppose you'd like to run for President?