Cesar Milan "Dog Whisperer"

I've watched the show and have tried some of his techniques without success with our lab Kisses.

I just can't get the hang of being the alpha dog with her. I hate walking with her because she just pulls me around. We did the obedience classes with some improvement but when it comes to walking and staying in the sit position we just can't get it right. It kills her to sit still. It's like I have a dog with ADHD.

How is that scary? Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve been told time and time again if people die they want to come back as my dogs, and I follow Cesars rules, in my own way of course, I am not Cesar so I adjust it to fit myself. All I see is “Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s so scary†blank blank blank… no reason why? Why is it scary? I love him but I also love to hear why people think different ways since this world would be pretty naive if people only had their opinions and were never opened up to other peopleâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s opinions. That would be a sad world.

Heâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s great in a home environment. I think if you work at a shelter and you try these techniques then your not very cautious of your well being LOL. I also respect the fact that he has his dogs along with his rescue dogs all in the same area. I wish all rescue centers could be like that rather then making the dogs be cooped up in a little cage every day.

There's nothing wrong with being the dominant member of your pack. But we aren't dogs. We're humans. So we need to achieve alpha status in a different way. Dogs' behaviour has a myriad of levels that we can't possibly ever hope to understand fully, and it's ridiculous to think we can. We learn more and more the more we study dogs, but we shouldn't pretend to be dogs. We should try to communicate with them in a way they will understand, but not by totally confusing them pretending to be one of them and completely stuffing it up.

Cesar Millan is a dangerous, untrained, delusional idiot. The Dog Whisperer, indeed. I know three-year-olds who communicate with dogs more effectively.

Originally Posted by silvionc

How is that scary? Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve been told time and time again if people die they want to come back as my dogs, and I follow Cesars rules, in my own way of course, I am not Cesar so I adjust it to fit myself. All I see is “Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s so scary†blank blank blank… no reason why? Why is it scary? I love him but I also love to hear why people think different ways since this world would be pretty naive if people only had their opinions and were never opened up to other peopleâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s opinions. That would be a sad world.

Heâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s great in a home environment. I think if you work at a shelter and you try these techniques then your not very cautious of your well being LOL. I also respect the fact that he has his dogs along with his rescue dogs all in the same area. I wish all rescue centers could be like that rather then making the dogs be cooped up in a little cage every day.

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Fair enough that you want some reasons. I don't see why not. I have cut and pasted my response on this issue from another thread, as there's no point in typing it out twice!

Animal behavior expert Patricia McConnell writes (regarding the ludicrous alpha roll) in her book The Other End of The Leash "Well-socialized, healthy dogs don't pin other dogs to the ground. . . . Within their social framework, you're acting like a lunatic." She is a very well-known behaviourist who has published several books and worked with many, many dogs.

Another very well respected behaviourst, Jean Donaldson (the San Francisco SPCA Director of The Academy for Dog Trainers), said of Cesar Millan "Practices such as physically confronting aggressive dogs and the use of choke collars for fearful dogs are outrageous by even the most diluted dog training standards. A profession that has been making steady gains in its professionalism, technical sophistication and humane standards has been greatly set back. I have long been deeply troubled by the popularity of Mr. Millan as so many will emulate him. To co-opt a word like `whispering' for arcane, violent and technically unsound practice is unconscionable."

On September 6, 2006, the American Humane Association issued a press release condemning Millan's tactics as "inhumane, outdated, and improper" and called on the National Geographic Channel to cease airing the program immediately.

In October 2006, the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants wrote a letter to the National Geographic Channel regarding concerns "that the program may lead children to engage in unsafe behaviors." The Association called for a change in the program's rating of TV-G.

January 2008, DogTime.com interviewed professional trainers associated with the APDT, Association of Pet Dog Trainers, and although these trainers pointed out that Cesar's TV show works with dogs needing rehabilitation that his methods may not be long term solutions. Trish King, Director of the Animal Behavior and Training Department at the Marin Humane Society observes: "In some of his shows, Cesar tells the owner how 'calm and submissive' a dog is, when to me, the dog looks shut down and fearful."

Many experienced and reputable dog trainers and behaviourists do not agree with his methods. I am one of them, and I have cited several examples to `back me up'.

Cesar Millan has been sued, his television show has been banned, and there is a great deal of discussion about him in the dog world - because of his approach. He has some methods that work - of course he does, otherwise he wouldn't be as successful as he is. But that does not make him a good behaviourist or trainer, and it does not mean he has a good understanding of dogs. Many methods in training are used across the board - and he uses some of them, too, so he gets some success.

It is my opinion that he has limited understanding of dog psychology and behaviour - and it is not just my opinion.

Wow Lol you really do hate him. I believe that Cesar works with a different type of dog then most people have. He normally works with more aggressive dogs so the training is different then most.

When I was younger I worked at a rottie rescue, they didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t just rescue rotties but over the years it had turned into a rescue for dogs that have no chance. This woman was a saint, she took in abused, extremely aggressive dogs and trained them to be adoptable. These were dogs that were going to be put down. I had an aggressive dog and went to her for help. I fell in love with this woman immediately for her heart. So I volunteered. This woman reminds me of Cesar. She was like a military sergeant who would cuddle her soldierâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s lol. 85% of her dogs were adoptable. She was just like Cesar, and she gave these guys a chance by not being a fluffy bunny trainer. She gave my girl a chance as well.

Dog trainers will have their own opinions. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve met many who love, and many who hate such as you see here. I think what people are forgetting is that he deals with bad dogs. If it was a cute little golden who wanted to play and was running around wagging his tail and Cesar tackled him… ya that would suck lol. But the only dogs I see him get aggressive with are the ones that are growling in his face. He doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t even hurt them, he just enforced heâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s the boss and they better stop growling and biting his face off… which is always a bad quality in a dog.

As for getting a warning on his show… well ya… kids can be dumb.. hell, if anyone remembers the power rangers I think 4 kids (in Canada anyways) died or got seriously injured on that show. That was a show made for kids. Even wrestling shows are bad… kids are sometimes dumb. People always complain about shows… Remember Sponge Bob? They wanted to ban him for being “Too Gay†that it would hurt kids brain development... please lol.

I think that everyone will have an opinion on this guy. I think he truly does love and care for dogs and only means the best. If he only showed happy dogs that only need to learn how to sit then it would be a boring show. Therefore he shows aggressive dogs that needs more training and people see it as wrong.

As for dogs being fearful… Nothing wrong with that. You canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t shelter your dogs or kids too much or they will never learn about life. Humans get over their fears from facing them, apparently so do dogs. My baby (German shepherd) was always afraid of thunder. Sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s 11 now but her whole life anything loud she would pee, shake, she would hurt herself trying to run away. One day I took her to a firework show, I brought her ball with me. Was she terrified? Hell ya! But after about 20min she was running around playing ball having the time of her life. I saw that on Cesar, because of his technique my dog can now be at peace. So a little bit of fear and stress she had was worth it to live the rest of her life in peace.

I guess everyone will always have a different opinion. I believe it works because it works for me. You donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t because itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s never worked for you. There are 100 different ways to do different things in life, so I guess we may both be right or wrong =).

Originally Posted by silvionc

As for dogs being fearful… Nothing wrong with that. You can’t shelter your dogs or kids too much or they will never learn about life. Humans get over their fears from facing them, apparently so do dogs. My baby (German shepherd) was always afraid of thunder. She’s 11 now but her whole life anything loud she would pee, shake, she would hurt herself trying to run away. One day I took her to a firework show, I brought her ball with me. Was she terrified? Hell ya! But after about 20min she was running around playing ball having the time of her life. I saw that on Cesar, because of his technique my dog can now be at peace. So a little bit of fear and stress she had was worth it to live the rest of her life in peace.

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This method you are referring to is called "flooding". Though it can work in some instances, it can also cause psychological damage/cause the problem to worsen. Many people prefer desensitization training, where you slowly reintroduce the dog to what frightens it, and associate the Scary Thing with fun/enjoyable things. This might be more effective in the long term.

Though I understand how this type of training could be difficult with something like thunderstorms.

Yes, she was terrified of storms. I got fed up when it was fireworks season and our neighbor had fireworks going. She fled upstairs to the bathroom, smashed into a wall then in a panic tried to dashed into the tub without jumping and pretty much knocked herself out by smashing her face on the tub. I rushed her to emergency and they gave the ok (she cut her head a little bit) it was then I decided that she was going to stop this. Fortunately it worked. It also worked with my rottie with swimming.

Of course this isnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t going to work with all dogs, which is sort of an underlying point of my previous post. Everyone will have different opinions because every dog is different. That doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t make more aggressive trainers bad. Just as people every dog has its own issues and will learn differently. It doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t make either of the debated ways bad.

Originally Posted by Sweet72947

Many people prefer desensitization training, where you slowly reintroduce the dog to what frightens it, and associate the Scary Thing with fun/enjoyable things. This might be more effective in the long term.

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I have seen Caesar do this technique as well. There was a woman who had a military working dog that suffered trauma over in Iraq and she called Caesar. For those who didn't see that episode, he took a small trailer and put a tredmill in it. He created a whole seen and played sounds that might startle the dog. He started off with small sounds, quieter sounds, and when the dog would stress out too much he would end it for the day and take the dog swimming. He worked the dog up to things like thunder storms, gunfire, etc. and eventually the dog was able to function normally again.

Originally Posted by whiteforest

I have seen Caesar do this technique as well. There was a woman who had a military working dog that suffered trauma over in Iraq and she called Caesar. For those who didn't see that episode, he took a small trailer and put a tredmill in it. He created a whole seen and played sounds that might startle the dog. He started off with small sounds, quieter sounds, and when the dog would stress out too much he would end it for the day and take the dog swimming. He worked the dog up to things like thunder storms, gunfire, etc. and eventually the dog was able to function normally again.

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I saw that one! He was there for about 2 months. The whole episode on this one dog. That was pretty intense. It was funny he brought a little kids pool to the firing range for "fun time" Lol

As with most things, there is some good, and some bad.
You can't deny that he has a "way" with dogs, but a lot of how he does things won't work for many people. The "alpha roll" is a ridiculous idea based on the fact that canines will show submission by rolling on their back. So theoretically, if you FORCE an aggressive dog on it's back this will convince it that it is subordinate to you? Not hardly.
And the baloney about dogs walking ahead of you or before you in doorways has nothing to do with who is "alpha." Really, he may be good at dealing with dogs, but these "wolf-pack" theories that are being used to sell his methods are misplaced. Dogs are descended from wolves, they are genetically identical (they can mate and produce fertile offspring, and are both classified as the same biological species) but we have modified their behavior to suit our needs. But dogs are not wolves, they have abilities that wolves do not have, such as the ability to take cues from humans.
By the way, the bit about getting a dog used to noises gradually is not flooding, it is desensitization. Flooding was when he dragged the dog by the leash onto a tile floor it was frightened of.

Dogs need consistency and rules, what I have found works for me (and for most people who are unable or unwilling to resort to physical force) is the NILIF (nothing in life is free) method.

Originally Posted by 2dogmom

As with most things, there is some good, and some bad.
You can't deny that he has a "way" with dogs, but a lot of how he does things won't work for many people. The "alpha roll" is a ridiculous idea based on the fact that canines will show submission by rolling on their back. So theoretically, if you FORCE an aggressive dog on it's back this will convince it that it is subordinate to you? Not hardly.
And the baloney about dogs walking ahead of you or before you in doorways has nothing to do with who is "alpha." Really, he may be good at dealing with dogs, but these "wolf-pack" theories that are being used to sell his methods are misplaced. Dogs are descended from wolves, they are genetically identical (they can mate and produce fertile offspring, and are both classified as the same biological species) but we have modified their behavior to suit our needs. But dogs are not wolves, they have abilities that wolves do not have, such as the ability to take cues from humans.
By the way, the bit about getting a dog used to noises gradually is not flooding, it is desensitization. Flooding was when he dragged the dog by the leash onto a tile floor it was frightened of.

Dogs need consistency and rules, what I have found works for me (and for most people who are unable or unwilling to resort to physical force) is the NILIF (nothing in life is free) method.

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Very well put .... lol some dogs WERE breed to go FIRST

Originally Posted by sharky

Very well put

.... lol some dogs WERE breed to go FIRST

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This is true, but these breeds tend to be breeds that people have difficulty training and keeping on their property because they are so stubborn and bred to think for themselves.


I know that when we did obedience classes it was 10 years before Caesar Milan and we were told to have the dog walk next to us, not in front of us, and that she was to follow us out the door, not lead us out the door. This is not a Caesar Milan technique, it's common practice among many dog trainers and has been.

There are a lot of things that dog trainers were doing decades ago that have since been abandoned by many trainers and behaviorists. Just look at the Koehler method - it may be appropriate for training attack dogs but IMO it has no place in dealing with behavioral issues in pets.
Cesar's fixation with who goes first ends up mislabeling a lot of dogs who have no behavioral issues at all as "dominant." Worse, it can lead someone to falsely a submissive dog as dominant. IF they then apply inappropriate behavior modification techniques, they not only don't help, they make things worse. His "quiz" is extremely simplistic and IMO dangerous for that reason.
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/quizes/index.php

I agree with his "exercise, discipline, affection" philosophy, but his obession with dominance ruins a lot of the good part of what he does for me.

I agree - it's the whole dominance thing that is obsessed over by some and is just getting so outdated. Exercise, discipline and affection are principles that should be applied to all dogs. Getting aggressive with aggressive dogs is a recipe for disaster.

I hate it when I have people say `oh my dog's so dominant because he wants to sleep on the lounge'. Er, no. Your dog wants to sleep on the lounge because it's more comfortable than the floor. Reading dominance into everything is ridiculous and not only that, completely wrong when it comes to dog behaviour. It has its place, like everything else. But many (most) aggression issues are not to do with dominance. Hardly anything is, actually. It should really be kept in perspective but I suppose it's just taken longer for this particular fad to phase out. The concept of dominance is an entirely different thing to humans than it is to dogs - and lots of humans forget that.

I found a good article that describes the fallacies the "wolf-pack-somebody-has-to-be-alpha" "theory." The research that led to this "lukomorphic" view of pet dogs was flawed- unfortunately that is not as well known.
http://anthropik.com/2006/11/alpha-d...free-families/

The fact that so many people are debating about this must mean that there's some subtance to what he's doing.

I think the main point that most people are trying to make here is that not everything that he's doing is worthwhile, but I think we can all agree that he does have a way with dogs, right? There's no possible way someone can house a whole pack of dogs like that and keep it as calm as he does. However, I do see everyone's points about the alpha roll - perhaps it's something that he shouldn't publicise as much as he does. I can also see how he could be slightly overboard on the dominance issue - however, it does get the point across that the dog can't be the one in control of you - somehow or another it has to realize that you're the owner.

I will say that I completely agree with the dog heeling. When I walked with Shaggy (my dog) when we got him it was completely unenjoyable. He'd tear in front of me, yanking at the leash and nearly pulling my arm out of it's socket. However, I bought a chain collar and using it he's converted into a beautiful walker. That was at the beginning of last summer, and since I've been walking him next to me that was when his issues started resolving themselves. I walk him at least twice a week now, and with a few corrections (he walks out of the door behind me and heels on walks) any agression he's shown before has disappeared. (Now I'm going to have to try the cracker trick though! )

I don't do everything by what Cesar says, but I do take a lot of what I use to train him from what he says...Shaggy's happier, more obedient, and all over a beter dog since I've started using his techniques. It'll be an issue that everyone can dispute and probably will for a long while.

Having your dog wait for you and walk next to you is just good practice. I used to work at a shelter, and there was one day that I was bringing a 100lb Golden outside on the leash and he decided to run out in front of me when I hadn't even had the door open all the way. The force of him running out and the leash being stuck on my wrist made my head go slamming into the door which then slammed arm in the door. I was nearly knocked unconscious from that I hit my head so hard. Had the dog been trained to wait for it's owner this would never have happened.

There are several ways to teach a dog to heel without using chain collars. Our dogs heel beautifully and they were trained to do so using positive reinforcement - the way I train all dogs. By holding a treat down near my leg and teaching the dog that that position - with its head next to my thigh and slightly back was the `good zone'. The zone where it needed to stay to have good things happen - i.e. get a treat.

It takes a little more technique and patience than yanking on your dogs neck with a choke collar, so I admit I can see how people would prefer the quick-fix, easy way, but it's just as effective (well, I think more so - because it is consistent with the way they are trained to do everything else as well), doesn't involve outdated and cruel forms of correction and teaches you a better way to communicate with your dog that doesn't involve any kind of physical punishment.

We wouldn't put a collar around our child's neck and yank it whenever the child didn't please us, I can't imagine why it could be seen as acceptable to do it to our dogs. They certainly don't do it to each other and dragging in front of you on a leash is only very rarely a form of `dominance'. Mostly they're just excited to be out of the house.

As for finding some way to `teach a dog you are its owner', that's easy too. Firstly, they already know - seeing as you're the one who feeds them and decides their every move. Secondly, if you practice a technique like NILIF or something similar, they learn to respect and obey you, and learn their place, without it being assumed that from the second they come in your door they are going to try to dominate you, so you'd better beat that attitude out of them from the start. Really, the whole thing is just repellant.

IMO and experience the Halti works the best for leash training. I've never used a choke chain, but I was told that choke chains are actually meant to sit higher up, under the chin and not around the neck, which makes more sense I suppose.

We used a Halti initially - they are very effective and give you the opportunity to train properly without the frustration. But Ruby hated it - it used to make her face itch something chronic - so we stopped using it. But by that stage, it had given us enough of a chance to show her what we wanted her to do, so it was a help.

You just need to be careful with a Halti that it fits properly - if not it can squish up their eyes - poor things! And like anything - people can misuse it. If you can, it's best to go with foolproof training aids like treats, or a clicker.