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obama plan for your money.

post #1 of 38
5/14/08 at 2:41am
Thread Starter 
He wants you, the US taxpayer to pay for the world

"U.S. taxpayers to fork over as much as 0.7 percent of the nation's Gross Domestic Product -- or $845,000,000,000.00 -- on welfare to third-world countries"

Last i looked we have hungery and homeless people here to worry about first.

i say, Well, since we seem to want to burn our food for fuel, why don't we trade food for oil. Or better just send them a IOU.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/071211-obama_hagel_can/
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post #2 of 38
5/14/08 at 5:46am
I think as I get older I have more protectionist views on how the US government should spend taxpayer money. There is enough to do in the US-think New Orleans and the Minnesota bridge collapse without give more aid to third world/developing countries.
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post #3 of 38
5/14/08 at 12:06pm
As I recall, although the U.S. government does not give quite as much (the world "standard" is 2%) to charity work, when you include private giving (which is much smaller in most countries, since the citizens depend on their governments to do it for them), the U.S. is the world leader in charitable funding.
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post #4 of 38
5/14/08 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
the last i saw, of the so called the world standard of 2%, most of the world did not meet that.

Point is obama wants to turn us into paying welfare for the whole world.
when we have people here that need help frist.
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post #5 of 38
5/14/08 at 6:59pm
I don't think we should be giving any aid to anyone as long as there is poverty in the US. Who appointed us the keeper of the world? We started out as a small, poor country, (how we got it is another issue and for another thread), but our forefathers built it into a great nation by getting off their butts, growing their own food, building our cities, advancing technologies by hand, not throwing those hands in the air and allowing themselves to starve. A lot of these 3rd world countries have been dependent on others for years, and it is time to stick a shovel in that outstretched hand, and either they use it to grow food or dig graves.We have been our brother's keepers long enough with nothing in return, some, not all, immigrants that want to come here and threaten us because we have dogs as part of our culture, explode airplanes into buildings, and instead of integrating into our culture, make their own little miniature countries inside ours, not learn to speak the language, and expect us to learn theirs. If where they were was so great, pack them up and send them back. The time for giving us your poor huddled masses is long past. I think we should close the borders in many cases. There are still people that should be legally allowed in this country, but they should have to have something to contribute, not come looking for everything to be handed to them.
I will step down off my soapbox now.
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post #6 of 38
5/14/08 at 7:24pm
It is only a small % of what we have and I think it can do a lot in our interaction with the world. I would rather see us stop subsidizing the oil companies which make billions in profits and the corporate farms. Why are we transferring tax dollars from the average worker to the above average profiteers?

Or how about the $1billion dollars in subsidies that we give to Walmart? http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/24/news...art_subsidies/
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post #7 of 38
5/14/08 at 7:35pm
Thread Starter 
what, We give more then anyone else. with money and food being given away. DO they thank us for it?No they dont. They turn around and spit in are face.

Sorry but i am to the point now, that i dont care, about the rest of the world. with a obama plan of a Increase of a total of 15% to are taxes is not a small increase. We have people now here in this country that go to bed hungery, who dont have a roof of there head. With the price of food and gas going up daily. That numbers will increase. he need to take care of are people first. PLus we wants to pay for everyones health care? NO WAY. I think bam bam, spent way to much time overseas.
he seems to think all of america is super rich.

the old saying of , i am my brothers keeper is false.
at some point in time, my brother needs to get off his lazy butt,
get a real job, and take care of his self.
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post #8 of 38
5/14/08 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
what, We give more then anyone else. with money and food being given away. DO they thank us for it?No they dont. They turn around and spit in are face.

Sorry but i am to the point now, that i dont care, about the rest of the world. with a obama plan of a Increase of a total of 15% to are taxes is not a small increase. We have people now here in this country that go to bed hungery, who dont have a roof of there head. With the price of food and gas going up daily. That numbers will increase. he need to take care of are people first. PLus we wants to pay for everyones health care? NO WAY. I think bam bam, spent way to much time overseas.
he seems to think all of america is super rich.

the old saying of , i am my brothers keeper is false.
at some point in time, my brother needs to get off his lazy butt,
get a real job, and take care of his self.
I read the article and could not find a reference to the 15% tax increase .
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post #9 of 38
5/14/08 at 7:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
I read the article and could not find a reference to the 15% tax increase .
grrr, sorry , i cant get the site to open here in the office.
but it was a break down, of the total tax increase obama plans. I will have to post it in the morning. *i really hate my work internet.
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post #10 of 38
5/15/08 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
grrr, sorry , i cant get the site to open here in the office.
but it was a break down, of the total tax increase obama plans. I will have to post it in the morning. *i really hate my work internet.
The only tax increase I have heard from Obama is that he might increase the capital gains tax.
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post #11 of 38
5/16/08 at 12:47pm
Well, isn't this just wonderful? Americans already give more than anyone else in the world in private donations, now Obama is going to FORCE us to give.

The man is a disgusting elitist that gives us no credit for our huge private donations to the world. He makes me sick.
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post #12 of 38
5/18/08 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kat2 View Post
I don't think we should be giving any aid to anyone as long as there is poverty in the US. Who appointed us the keeper of the world? We started out as a small, poor country, (how we got it is another issue and for another thread), but our forefathers built it into a great nation by getting off their butts, growing their own food, building our cities, advancing technologies by hand, not throwing those hands in the air and allowing themselves to starve. A lot of these 3rd world countries have been dependent on others for years, and it is time to stick a shovel in that outstretched hand, and either they use it to grow food or dig graves.We have been our brother's keepers long enough with nothing in return, some, not all, immigrants that want to come here and threaten us because we have dogs as part of our culture, explode airplanes into buildings, and instead of integrating into our culture, make their own little miniature countries inside ours, not learn to speak the language, and expect us to learn theirs. If where they were was so great, pack them up and send them back. The time for giving us your poor huddled masses is long past. I think we should close the borders in many cases. There are still people that should be legally allowed in this country, but they should have to have something to contribute, not come looking for everything to be handed to them.
I don't believe I've ever read anything so misinformed and offensive. Wow.

Cindy - some religions have charity or tithing as part of one of their central tenets. Would you call that `forcing'?

Americans are amongst the most generous (if not the most generous) people in the world. That is something to be proud of. I am amazed that people are being so churlish about this.

`A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing'. Seems to apply here.
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post #13 of 38
5/18/08 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I don't believe I've ever read anything so misinformed and offensive. Wow.

Cindy - some religions have charity or tithing as part of one of their central tenets. Would you call that `forcing'?

Americans are amongst the most generous (if not the most generous) people in the world. That is something to be proud of. I am amazed that people are being so churlish about this.

`A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing'. Seems to apply here.
she is 100% right.
your not the one whose taxes will be going even higher to play walfare for the rest of the world.

and snice your into old saying,
a fool and his money Are Easily Parted..
or sucker is born every min.
how about chairty begins at home.
money cant buy you friends?
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post #14 of 38
5/18/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I don't believe I've ever read anything so misinformed and offensive. Wow.

Cindy - some religions have charity or tithing as part of one of their central tenets. Would you call that `forcing'?

Americans are amongst the most generous (if not the most generous) people in the world. That is something to be proud of. I am amazed that people are being so churlish about this.

`A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing'. Seems to apply here.
Yes, some religions have tithing. What is your point Sarah? Do you think that said churches will come arrest you and put you in jail for "evading your tithes"? I don't think so

If we are so generous, like you say, why are we being FORCED to give more?
It is the forcing I have a big problem with. People give much more when they aren't forced. Just another way that Obama doesn't have a clue. Not one clue. The man is nuts.

And I can understand krazy cat's post. We give and give and give some more and all it gets us is being spit on by the very people we are giving to.

People talk about, "America's bad reputation" in the World. Let's stop our giving to all the countries that say that and then the bad reputation baloney will be true. See how people like it then. Our country is first in the foreground when there are catastrophes and we get spit on for our efforts.
I am tired of it too.

I have stopped giving to charities, ALL charities. I give to my church, I trust my church to put my donations to where it will be best used. My church as many awesome ministries, many in third world countries. That is fine, at least the people my church is helping isn't treating us like dirt.
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post #15 of 38
5/18/08 at 6:33pm
My point is that why is it not called `forcing' when religions require - not ask, require - charitable donations, but it is when it is proposed by the government?

I can understand parts of krazykat's post - but to suggest that third world countries got themselves into the positions they are in is, in a word, offensive. And, in another word, misinformed.

There are certainly people out there who just put their hand out for charity and don't deserve it. I will never disagree with that. And I also don't have much of a problem with `charity begins at home', either.

But what I do have a problem with is the perception that those who need and deserve charity are in a hole of their own making and that a `shovel' is going to help them turn their lives around.

Your argument about the US could be turned the other way around. If you don't want to give aid to countries, you should also stop forcing questionable foreign policy on them. You can't have it both ways. But there is no point in starting that particular argument because it has no end and no beginning - the moebius strip of arguments, if you will.

I said in my post that the people of the US are amongst the most - if not THE most - generous in the world, and I still stand by it. But it's a shame to see that generosity soured - for whatever reason.
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post #16 of 38
5/18/08 at 7:12pm
Believe it or not, Sarah, I agree with you.

My church asks for a pledge every year. I pledge X amount of dollars.
They do NOT require.
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post #17 of 38
5/18/08 at 7:17pm
Well no I didn't think Christianity did, actually. But Islam certainly does and I believe Judaism does as well, although I really could be wrong about that.

I don't belong to a church or religious institution so my donations go to NGOs that I have carefully researched to at least ensure that some of my money is going where it is supposed to. I feel that charity is both a privilege and an obligation - but I know not everyone feels the same way.

We just have to stop this Cindy. This agreeing with each other thing? It's damaging our credibility!
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post #18 of 38
5/18/08 at 7:21pm
I know, it is kinda scary.

People are going to get sick of us and tell us to "shut up, and go get a room"

Oops, wrong thread.
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post #19 of 38
5/18/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I know, it is kinda scary.

People are going to get sick of us and tell us to "shut up, and go get a room"

Oops, wrong thread.
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post #20 of 38
5/19/08 at 4:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post

There are certainly people out there who just put their hand out for charity and don't deserve it. I will never disagree with that. And I also don't have much of a problem with `charity begins at home', either.

But what I do have a problem with is the perception that those who need and deserve charity are in a hole of their own making and that a `shovel' is going to help them turn their lives around.
yes it does, people are being hard hit here, food banks are running low on food. I care about people here , not someone else.

bottom line is, its not your money they want to take away , and give to some third strong man who is just going to put it in is pocket.

GO take it up with china and the UN(who is sitting on billions of dollars and not using it... on wait,yes they are giving themself nice new office)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Let's stop our giving to all the countries that say that and then the bad reputation baloney will be true
I agree, and have for long time.
people keep saying there are to many people in the world.
if we gave less then there would be less people.
cant have it both ways.
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post #21 of 38
5/19/08 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
yes it does, people are being hard hit here, food banks are running low on food. I care about people here , not someone else.
So if Obama's plan were to `force' you to pay charity to members of your own society who need it, you would have no problem with it?
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post #22 of 38
5/19/08 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
So if Obama's plan were to `force' you to pay charity to members of your own society who need it, you would have no problem with it?
We already do. It's called "welfare".
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post #23 of 38
5/19/08 at 5:52pm
Yes and people b!tch and moan about that, too. I think it's a little hypocritical to object to foreign aid on the grounds that charity should begin at home, and then object to the charity that is at home on the grounds that nobody deserves a handout.
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post #24 of 38
5/19/08 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Yes and people b!tch and moan about that, too. I think it's a little hypocritical to object to foreign aid on the grounds that charity should begin at home, and then object to the charity that is at home on the grounds that nobody deserves a handout.
I have no issues with helping out those who are unable to work due to physical or mental disabilities. I don't have a problem with helping, short term, those who have fallen on hard times through illness or no other fault of their own. It's the useless people who want to skate through life living off of off handouts rather than lifting a finger to help themselves that I have a problem with. Granted, the welfare system has been overhauled but there are those who still slip through the cracks.
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post #25 of 38
5/19/08 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Yes and people b!tch and moan about that, too. I think it's a little hypocritical to object to foreign aid on the grounds that charity should begin at home, and then object to the charity that is at home on the grounds that nobody deserves a handout.
Well talk to your PM tell him its not fair that the US gives more then you do.
Tell him to increase your taxes, so they can give it away.
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post #26 of 38
5/19/08 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I have no issues with helping out those who are unable to work due to physical or mental disabilities. I don't have a problem with helping, short term, those who have fallen on hard times through illness or no other fault of their own. It's the useless people who want to skate through life living off of off handouts rather than lifting a finger to help themselves that I have a problem with. Granted, the welfare system has been overhauled but there are those who still slip through the cracks.
I agree with this entirely. Welfare cheats cost countries several hundred millions of dollars
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
Well talk to your PM tell him its not fair that the US gives more then you do.
Tell him to increase your taxes, so they can give it away.
Nice deflection, Bruce, but it doesn't really address my question.
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post #27 of 38
5/19/08 at 7:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Nice deflection, Bruce, but it doesn't really address my question.
Yes it does, Keep your hands out of my bank account.
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post #28 of 38
5/19/08 at 7:48pm
Not really. My hands aren't in your bank account. You made it clear that your primary objection to this policy was that charity should begin at home. Therefore I asked you if Obama changed his policy to `home' charity rather than `overseas' charity if you would still object. You haven't answered.
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post #29 of 38
5/19/08 at 8:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Not really. My hands aren't in your bank account. You made it clear that your primary objection to this policy was that charity should begin at home. Therefore I asked you if Obama changed his policy to `home' charity rather than `overseas' charity if you would still object. You haven't answered.
if they would stop sending billions of dollars to overseas.
there would be more then enough to take care of people here.

And no i would not support it. Many parts of america are like it is here. under a huge Tax Burden. between federal, local, state, SS, medcare. i lose 52% of my money each week. That is not counting, sale tax, gas tax. property tax.
yea, that right, there are times, i lose more in taxes then i take home.

Since there is a huge chance, that SS wont be there when i finally stop working here, you need to save your cash and plan for that point in time.
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post #30 of 38
5/19/08 at 8:28pm
Is "charity" the answer when we are losing jobs overseas by the hundreds, if not thousands every year? The oil companies have such a strong grip on the politicians, both democrat and republican, that alternative renewable forms of energy (such as using switchgrass to make gasoline) seem like they will never be considered seriously. We have a great energy source 93 million miles away from the earth. Why isn't there a greater reliance on it? The costs of living are going up with the fuel prices but wages are staying static. The problem is that no one in Washington DC seems to care or offer anything other than lip service.
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