Breeders/Exhibitors - Can you tell

abymummy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
What's wrong and what's right with your cats? Not talking about HHP really, more on the pedigrees...

I've been researching lines quite a bit more than usual, looking for lines that would make my cattery better...as a breeder "perfection" (as if that exists) or at least 98% of my interpretation of breed standards is what I wish my cattery to produce.

As you may have read, I am waiting for 2, maybe 3 new foundation cats this year alone! They will hopefully give me what I need to breed something quite extraordinary, God willing.

Well, do you breeders/exhibitors know what's "missing" in your show cats? Do you know where you can go to make whatever is "wrong" to make right?
 

sol

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
Messages
590
Purraise
4
Location
Sweden
I know what's wrong with my cats and usually I know where I can find a complementing male. It's not easy though. I usually can't find one that'll complement the queen completely.
 

goldenkitty45

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 29, 2005
Messages
19,900
Purraise
44
Location
SW Minnesota
I know what I'd like to improve on my cats. I researched pedigrees and looked at the males to use that would give me better. I wish I was able to keep more of what I produced, as most were very nice show quality cats.

For example (tho Charlie is altered) - I'd like to have better ear set ( a little wider) and better spotting. Body and head/muzzle and coat is great.

So with Jack, I'll be looking for better ears and better spotting. His breeder has excellent contrast on her colors I want and much better ear set on her males and females, so Jack should wind up with what I'd like even tho he will be altered too
 

kitytize

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
2,155
Purraise
2
I sure do know everything wrong and right with my Somalis


Veeshan excellent color, decent coat but could improve the ruff but she has an excellent tail, nice body with a good arch in the back, her biggest fault, which I believe is why it took so long to Grand is her round head, her ears are not bad but could be better.

Kingston excellent color but his coat his not so good, needs to be more dense, his body is long and lanky, which I do not like, his tail is long and I do like that, he is underweight, he has excellent ears but his head is to narrow. He also has this lumpy spine between his shoulder blades.

With everything I know now I would of liked to have bred Veeshan but I am very glad Kingston is neutered. Veeshan is from lines that are not common in pedigrees in my area and that is much needed in this breed. Her coloring and her dense coat would of been nice to pass on, as would of her body with that nice arch. The only negative thing is her head shape. Now if that would of been passed on or not I do not know. Breeding to a cat with a better head might of helped. The only way for me to know would of been to give it a try. She would also have needed to be tested for PK Deficiency as that is in her fathers lines, but more in likely she would of been a carrier and not affected.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

abymummy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Originally Posted by kitytize

With everything I know now I would of liked to have bred Veeshan but I am very glad Kingston is neutered. Veeshan is from lines that are not common in pedigrees in my area and that is much needed in this breed. Her coloring and her dense coat would of been nice to pass on, as would of her body with that nice arch. The only negative thing is her head shape. Now if that would of been passed on or not I do not know. Breeding to a cat with a better head might of helped. The only way for me to know would of been to give it a try. She would also have needed to be tested for PK Deficiency as that is in her fathers lines, but more in likely she would of been a carrier and not affected.
Veeshan comes from PK Def lines? Interesting...I was recently offered an outstanding male which came from PK Def lines. After testing we found out that he was/is a carrier. As a novice breeder I decided that I didn't want to go down that road since my foundation is PK Def normal. PK Def issues just like PKD is not easy to eradicate in a cattery once it's there...

Personally, my cats have head/size (a bit too small) issues as well and I am praying that these new ones will improve ears, eyes and overall body size. Everything else is "perfect"
 

ferriscat

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
777
Purraise
3
Location
Washington, DC
Unfortunately, since I'm dealing with new lines, some things are completely up in the air. Turkish Vans take 3-5 years to fully mature, so I won't be able to judge my young queens' size and coat length yet.

Sabre:
Good Points: Sabre has the best coat I've ever felt, and other TUV breeders agree that it is wonderful. It's like silk and requires little maintenance. She's show-marked, is of an uncommon brown tabby color, and the color itself it nice and warm. She's seen 12 different judges that have all hung ribbons for her and is a confirmed CH. And of course, she is of completely new lines so I immense freedom with my breeding program.
Bad Points: Her type leans a little towards the Angora side of the spectrum, but still clearly TUV. I'm curious to see how her head develops, since it is still a little too wedge-shaped. Her eyes have a greenish cast to them, but they are still amber. She's very long and lean, which I love, but unless she fills out she will look too extreme. She's a very sweet kitty at home, but at the moment does not like to be in the showhall for too long. I might try her in one or two more shows, but only to see judges she's not seen before. Afterall, I'm looking for opinions, not points

Minnosh:
Good Points: Nice coat with a good texture and length. Deep deep amber eye color. Her color is also very nice and rich; deep red and deep black. She has a nice head type, great ear set, and a sweet expression. She also has good heavy boning. Her pesonality wonderful; she's sweet and cuddly at home and a real show-woman in the ring. She's made two AB finals as a kitten, which proves that other judges also recognize her quality.

Bad Points: As one judge said, "she really pushes the envelop for the amount of acceptable markings." It's too much for some judges, and they regret not being able to use her because of it. However, because of the way the white spotting gene works, I can probably eliminate this problem in one generation.

Patik:
Good Points: He's got a heavy muscular body where his heaviness suprises you when you pick him up. He has deep chest with a swimmers build, great head type, and lovely eye and ear set. He's also an uncommon color-- brown tabby. He doesn't spray at all, but has proven his fertility.

Bad Points: He seems a little on the smaller end of the TUV spectrum, though he's still got 2-3 years of growing to do. He's a sensitive boy who will go off his feed when upset. He's a little undermarked and his eye color has too much of a greenish cast.
 

kitytize

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
2,155
Purraise
2
Originally Posted by Abymummy

Veeshan comes from PK Def lines? Interesting...I was recently offered an outstanding male which came from PK Def lines. After testing we found out that he was/is a carrier. As a novice breeder I decided that I didn't want to go down that road since my foundation is PK Def normal. PK Def issues just like PKD is not easy to eradicate in a cattery once it's there...
Yes she does. Her grandmother was affected (why in the world she was bred at all I will never understand) and her grandfather was a carrier. There were 3 kittens in that litter 2 were affected and Veeshan's father is unknown to me but he must be a carrier or affected, he cannot be clear. Because I do not know what Veeshan's mother is either there is a chance Veeshan could be affected. This is why I had her spayed. Being new I did not want to start out that way either. This is also why I will not go back to her breeder.

But from what I know now I feel confident that if Veeshan was a carrier I have enough contacts and enough knowledge to breed it out. As long as she was bred to clears her kittens would either be carriers or clears but not affected. Only the affected cats get sick. It is not that hard to breed out.

affected to affected - all kittens will be affected
affected to carrier - 50% affected 50% carriers
affected to normal - all carriers
carrier to carrier - 25% affected, 50% carriers, 25% normal
normal to carrier - 50& carrier, 50% normal
normal to normal - all normal

Affected cats should never be bred for the obvious reason that it is detrimental to their own health plus you don't want to pass it on. And carriers should only be bred with normal.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

abymummy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
4,074
Purraise
11
Location
Malaysia
Originally Posted by kitytize

affected to affected - all kittens will be affected
affected to carrier - 50% affected 50% carriers
affected to normal - all carriers
carrier to carrier - 25% affected, 50% carriers, 25% normal
normal to carrier - 50& carrier, 50% normal
normal to normal - all normal

Affected cats should never be bred for the obvious reason that it is detrimental to their own health plus you don't want to pass it on. And carriers should only be bred with normal.
That's just it...I don't even want carriers in my cattery. By far easier (to me at least) to start with a clear cattery than go that route. It's a matter of trust. It is a firm decision on my part, and I am willing to wait (as I have over the past 2 years or so) for the right PK Def normal cats.

Mind you, waiting for the "right" cats has caused me to have more breeder contacts than I ever thought I would have!
 
Top