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Is this still America? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
he needs to shipped back to where he comes from ,
since he does not know how to act here.
Do you have any idea what the country he escaped from is like?
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
he needs to shipped back to where he comes from ,
since he does not know how to act here.
Actually, he is probably reading the news and acting like a criminal American would - there's plenty of wrong done to cats (and to dogs) not to mention to disabled women and to children - threatening a service dog is probably median on the scale of horror
post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Do you have any idea what the country he escaped from is like?
If that is the case, one would think he would be grateful to be in America, wouldn't one? And maybe try to assimilate. I know, that is to much to ask for.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
If that is the case, one would think he would be grateful to be in America, wouldn't one? And maybe try to assimilate. I know, that is to much to ask for.
Ah, and here is the fundamental issue. Why does being grateful necessitate assimilating? Not in this case, of course-- I've said several times the kid should be punished for the bratty teenager he is-- but I think this is your underlying attitude towards other cultural groups in the USA in general.

It's a mosaic, not a melting pot.
post #35 of 47
Why is assimilation such a bad thing? Presumably, there is something about our culture that attracts immigrants to the United States. Not saying we don't have things that could/should/will change, but why should Americans of every race/color/whatever who are relatively happy living here be willing to tolerate bizarro behavior from people just because they're immigrants and that's what they do back home? They're not at home. They moved here, to the big old bad USA with all its charms and flaws.

I have no problem with places like "Chinatown" in various cities or "Greek neighborhoods" and their equivalents, but I do have a problem with trying to force some other culture down our throats. I live in a very diverse area. Going to Wal-Mart is like visiting the UN, and you often wonder if anyone speaks English, but I don't care about that. Speak what you want among friends and family. I want the employees of the store to be able to communicate with me, but I couldn't care less what people want to speak in their private communications. I don't care if they want to wear traditional dress.

You have to draw the line somewhere between tolerance and patriotism. I, for one, have a real problem with people acting like a bunch of nutjobs over a dog. This is America. We, as a culture, accept (and many of us like) that dogs are a very popular household pet here and expect to see them in public. I'm not going to pack up fifty dogs and go start a breeding kennel of black Labrador Retrievers in the Middle East and then stroll around town encouraging everyone to pet them. It would be weird and unacceptable. I'm not going to move to Tokyo and start screaming at everyone on the subway to get away from me and respect my 3' bubble of personal space. I'm certainly not going to flaunt a mini-skirt in Tehran.

Would you move to another country with a vastly different culture, try to flaunt your bizarro American customs, and then expect everyone to be tolerant? I'm thinking you wouldn't, because you seem like a reasonable, sensible person, but I don't see why there is a double standard for us.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by boringjen View Post
Why is assimilation such a bad thing? Presumably, there is something about our culture that attracts immigrants to the United States. Not saying we don't have things that could/should/will change, but why should Americans of every race/color/whatever who are relatively happy living here be willing to tolerate bizarro behavior from people just because they're immigrants and that's what they do back home? They're not at home. They moved here, to the big old bad USA with all its charms and flaws.

I have no problem with places like "Chinatown" in various cities or "Greek neighborhoods" and their equivalents, but I do have a problem with trying to force some other culture down our throats. I live in a very diverse area. Going to Wal-Mart is like visiting the UN, and you often wonder if anyone speaks English, but I don't care about that. Speak what you want among friends and family. I want the employees of the store to be able to communicate with me, but I couldn't care less what people want to speak in their private communications. I don't care if they want to wear traditional dress.

You have to draw the line somewhere between tolerance and patriotism. I, for one, have a real problem with people acting like a bunch of nutjobs over a dog. This is America. We, as a culture, accept (and many of us like) that dogs are a very popular household pet here and expect to see them in public. I'm not going to pack up fifty dogs and go start a breeding kennel of black Labrador Retrievers in the Middle East and then stroll around town encouraging everyone to pet them. It would be weird and unacceptable. I'm not going to move to Tokyo and start screaming at everyone on the subway to get away from me and respect my 3' bubble of personal space. I'm certainly not going to flaunt a mini-skirt in Tehran.

Would you move to another country with a vastly different culture, try to flaunt your bizarro American customs, and then expect everyone to be tolerant? I'm thinking you wouldn't, because you seem like a reasonable, sensible person, but I don't see why there is a double standard for us.
People are welcome to assimilate; it's not that I don't want them to. Nor did I say they should "flaunt" anything. Strolling around anywhere with 50 dogs is unacceptable, as is screaming at everyone on a subway.

My point is that we shouldn't judge people or think they need to just go back to the war-torn, famine-stricken countries they came from because they don't step off the boat singing Disney tunes and celebrating Christmas.

There is a hookah bar next door to me that is usually full of Somali men watching soccer. They've kept enough of their culture that this is still a pretty important thing to them; they've assimilated enough that women can go inside and you can order a Dr Pepper.

It's about accepting that American culture isn't actually homogenous to begin with, not saying everyone should be separatist and refuse to interact with anyone else. There's a point at which it is bizarre to hold onto your customs, and a point at which it's unfair to ask the country in which you live to tolerate them. But there's also a point at which your culture is part of who you are, and it's bizarre to ask anyone to give it up.
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Do you have any idea what the country he escaped from is like?

ask me if i care?
he is in this country now,are rules apply.
if we allow them to change are rules to match there rules.
guess what we will look like in a few years.
post #38 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Ah, and here is the fundamental issue. Why does being grateful necessitate assimilating? Not in this case, of course-- I've said several times the kid should be punished for the bratty teenager he is-- but I think this is your underlying attitude towards other cultural groups in the USA in general.

It's a mosaic, not a melting pot.

Because he isn't in his country anymore, he is in America and we value our dogs pretty highly here. And yes, if I were escaping persecution in my home country and got the chance to come to a country where there is freedom,
I WOULD be grateful and I wouldn't be threatening the citizens of my host country. Can you not see that Z? Is that to much to ask of immigrants?

How long would I last if I went to Somalia or any other muslim country and started threatening their citizenry? Just how long?
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Because he isn't in his country anymore, he is in America and we value our dogs pretty highly here. And yes, if I were escaping persecution in my home country and got the chance to come to a country where there is freedom,
I WOULD be grateful and I wouldn't be threatening the citizens of my host country. Can you not see that Z? Is that to much to ask of immigrants?

How long would I last if I went to Somalia or any other muslim country and started threatening their citizenry? Just how long?
I never said that this particular student was doing something we should accept, actually, I said the opposite several times.

I said that the general attitude of being offended by people not fully assimilating is a counterproductive one.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
My point is that we shouldn't judge people or think they need to just go back to the war-torn, famine-stricken countries they came from because they don't step off the boat singing Disney tunes and celebrating Christmas.
No one expects "Disney tunes, etc." But it's a reasonable expectation that those who want to make the US their home familiarize themselves with American culture; at least enough so that they will not find themselves clashing with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
But there's also a point at which your culture is part of who you are, and it's bizarre to ask anyone to give it up.
It all depends if the manifestation of the beliefs of that culture causes injury, or worse, to another person or animal.
post #41 of 47
http://www.startribune.com/local/189...tml?page=1&c=y

A local Islamic group vocally supports the right to have guide dogs. As I've been looking around to learn more about this issue, it appears that there are plenty of Muslims with guide and other working dogs. Different groups of muslim scholars have different takes on the unclean dog bit, but it seems that all groups approve the use of working dogs. Many groups consider the saliva of dogs to be unclean, expect Muslims to wash 7 times after being touched by a dog's saliva (or even fur -- again, it's different in different groups), and prohibit dogs as pets, but some scholars even defend dogs as pets.

So I wouldn't worry about American becoming dog-less because of the pernicious influence of Muslims. There is even a pure-bred dog from the middle east whose good reputation as a gift from God is quite intact in some Islamic cultures; the Saluki.
post #42 of 47
i'm a muslim. i know my religion well and can tell you everything you want to know about dogs. what Enuja said is true. in details: (i took it from islamonline.net):

“A dog can be owned for purposes such as the following:

1. A trained dog for hunting. Remember in Islam we are only allowed to hunt for food; there is no such thing as hunting for fun, for we are not allowed to kill or torture animals or drive them out of their habitats for the fun of it.

2. A trained dog as a guide. This would be the case if a person is blind and he/she has no choice but to keep a dog for essential services. In this case, it is permissible for him/her to keep a dog inside the house once it has been trained for service, but it is still recommended that the dog have its own sleeping arrangement.

3. A dog trained for police duties.

4. A guard dog to guard houses or property.

5. A dog used by farmers to shepherd cattle and sheep.
///
touching a dog doesnt make muslim impure (as most of the scholars say). if dog licked part of the body or clothes the only thing that is needed to be done is to wash it 7 times with antibacterial soap. thats it.
what about that somali student. if everything that is said in the article is truth, then he is an idiot. and that doesnt come from his religion or nationality. there are plenty of americans who beat up the stray dogs and cats and no one says that "he is american that is why he did that". so make your own decisions....
________________________________________________________________________



there are a lot of radical and crazy people around. not only those who claim to be muslims, what about crazy mormons that kept hundreds of kids in their isolated village? there is a lot of evil among people of different nationalities/religions and when you judge their deeds (which is not something any religion encourages you to do), try not to blame the religion or nationality, because if you will open your eyes you will see a lot of good, truthful people among muslims, christians, jews, americans, people from Somali, UK, Norway, Russia, Azerbaijan, any other country!!
Do you know that in Islam killing one innocent person is equal to killing everybody in the world?!? All those stupid thories about jihad...that people simply DON'T KNOW Islam, and they dont know what jihad is!!! You cant kill someone who is not muslim!!
I hope that all those people, who spoil the religion of God, the religion of mercy and kindness, i really hope that they all will burn in Hell.
and my advise to you is never read and believe to all those shady strange websites. doesnt matter if its a "islamic" site or not.
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
hmm no america died some time ago.
i keep hoping in time people will get sick of it, and take there country back.
I'm still waiting for this day!!!
post #44 of 47
Thread Starter 
Maybe we should do what they are doing in Britain. They are making all the police dogs wear booties. Awwww, isn't that sweet?

http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my...ell-anoth.html
post #45 of 47
To be fair, "Britain's leading Imam" even says they're being silly. He states that only the dog's saliva is "unclean" and says it's perfectly fine to search a home with a dog. Honestly, I think it's completely absurd that anyone felt the need to apologize for using a puppy in a law enforcement advertisement. The article jumped around a lot, but who really cares what some random people think about using dogs within law enforcement?

Oh, right...some totally random Muslims in another country. That's not really a huge concern for me. For those who live there, like I said, even the "leading Imam" approves of using dogs to search for explosives.

I think the whole issue with dogs is silly, but I think a lot of issues with a lot of religions are silly, so who am I?
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post

IMO, this is a matter of a high school brat being let to get away with something he shouldn't have. If everyone involved were white, that's what this thread would be about, not some conspiracy theory about Islam taking over America. Bizarre.


I daresay that if everyone involved were white Christians, this wouldn't even be news.
post #47 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ<3Me View Post
what about that somali student. if everything that is said in the article is truth, then he is an idiot. and that doesnt come from his religion or nationality. there are plenty of americans who beat up the stray dogs and cats and no one says that "he is american that is why he did that". so make your own decisions....
________________________________________________________________________



there are a lot of radical and crazy people around. not only those who claim to be muslims, what about crazy mormons that kept hundreds of kids in their isolated village? there is a lot of evil among people of different nationalities/religions and when you judge their deeds (which is not something any religion encourages you to do), try not to blame the religion or nationality, because if you will open your eyes you will see a lot of good, truthful people among muslims, christians, jews, americans, people from Somali, UK, Norway, Russia, Azerbaijan, any other country!!
Do you know that in Islam killing one innocent person is equal to killing everybody in the world?!? All those stupid thories about jihad...that people simply DON'T KNOW Islam, and they dont know what jihad is!!! You cant kill someone who is not muslim!!
I hope that all those people, who spoil the religion of God, the religion of mercy and kindness, i really hope that they all will burn in Hell.
and my advise to you is never read and believe to all those shady strange websites. doesnt matter if its a "islamic" site or not.

Thank you for your post. Unfortunately many people (of every race and religion) already have their minds made up about other peoples and religions and often even the truth will fall on deaf ears. That is why I believe we will never achieve peace on earth - everyone only believes what they want to believe and that's often nowhere near what the truth really is.

I thank God my parents raised me to respect everyone and judge people on their merits, not their religion or the colour of their skin. My parents were country farmers with little formal education but what they taught me and my brothers is often worth more than any formal degree. They were fair-minded, treated everyone as equals, and would give anyone the shirt off their own backs if they felt that person needed it more than they did. If a bum/beggar was walking along the road it would not be unusual for my parents to invite him in to dinner. I realize times have changed and we must be more careful about things like that, but we still try to follow their example and often have friends of family that are alone for holidays to join our clan in the festivities and celebration.

In fact, one Thanksgiving (just after 9/11) our daughter had a Turkish friend who was feeling pretty badly about the events and was here in Canada without his family. He joined us for the celebration at our invitation and we were glad to let him know that he was completely accepted and not blamed for what some fanatics claiming his religion did to all those innocent people in New York.
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