Breeder profits?

What do you think? Is it ok for breeders to profit from sales of their kittens?

I've heard people comment that breeders who make money off their kitten sales are bad breeders, BYB's, kitten mills, etc.

IMO, responsible breeder = must lose money, just doesn't make sense.

We're always in the hole because we show all the time, but if we didn't we'd be profitable inspite of the fact that we don't cut corners and our cats get the best food and care possible.

Not that I know much about this but-
If you didn't show so often would you be able to be as confident that the cats you were breeding were as good quality?
I mean that from reading posts here in the past I've got the impression that showing is the best way of separating the good examples of a breed from the stunning ones who should be bred. And I think I've seen GK question a breeder who didn't show much (although they had the option to) and whose cats hadn't won many titles.
Can you be just as good a breeder if you don't show your cats to the best of your/their abilities?
Is there a happy medium for showing where you can make a profit but still be as confident in the quality of your cats?
I didn't mean to ask so many questions...

I would like to think a good breeder would be able to make a modest profit ... Ie I had thought about getting a GSD with good lines , she planned on selling them for 850.00$ ... the sires "parents" have a well established kennel and are asking 1500.00$ for the same litter .... I know that at 850.00 shell make about 350 after taking into account food for Mom, the shots ,the well puppy visit s and the 4-8 weeks of feeding the pups ...

I think it is ok if you have an established cattery with most breeding cats having titles. But you would still need to show every now and then to make sure your cattery is still producing the quality needed to preserve the breed.

If you don't need to add any new lines and are not replacing any current breeding cats you would not need to show but I would assume that would only be for a season or 2. I do not think a good breeder could be profitable every year. A breeder who does not show at all is a byb.

I wish I could have made a profit - even a little bit. But you are right, by the time you put out the money for showing, hotels, etc. and feed top quality, stud service (if you can't keep your own male) and vet bills, quality food.........you are lucky if you do make a few hundred.

Those that make a big profit are cutting corners somewhere or they are overbreeding their cats and placing kittens at 8-10 weeks old instead of keeping them for 4 months.

Plus a lot of breeders have the added expense of neuter/spaying the kittens before placing them at 4 months....another expense!

IMO if you don't stay in the show scene, you can become cattery blind and THINK you have quality cats. By showing, you not only stay on top of what's out there, you also can make contacts. I still think that a good breeder gets out there and shows their cats to prove they do have quality cats!

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

What do you think? Is it ok for breeders to profit from sales of their kittens?

I've heard people comment that breeders who make money off their kitten sales are bad breeders, BYB's, kitten mills, etc.

IMO, responsible breeder = must lose money, just doesn't make sense.

We're always in the hole because we show all the time, but if we didn't we'd be profitable inspite of the fact that we don't cut corners and our cats get the best food and care possible.

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Well if the breeder doesn't show then BYB IMO. I can see sometimes breeding a non titled animal in a breeding program for various reasons based upon experience to a titled animal, however, the serious reputable breeders concerned with longevity, type, health, etc. tend to be very active in their breed and involved with showing.

It is their passion, their hobby, not how they make their money. They take their time and focus on quality, not quantity. They give the best care to their cats and kittens at all times and the animals are their priority. Raising animals the right way is not cheap, breeding them is not either. It would take a lot of profit to break even, and if that person wanted to break even they would have evaluate their priorities.

It isn't a money making venture, not a get rich quick thing, not a numbers game. I compare it to a hobby, since hobbies are something people generally enjoy a lot, spend a lot of time learning and doing, and spend money invested in the experience and for the love of that hobby.

Sometimes money cost too much and sometimes you do something for the love it, not for the money. A lot of times this happens in life, like for instance kids cost more than parents can ever really know but are really really priceless. My animal food bill is hundreds per month but I can't put a real price on the joy they bring me every single day of my life.

I am not and never have been a breeder, but it seems to me if the cats are shown to let prospective buyers know that they are indeed quality cats, they are well fed and cared for, loved, and made sure they go only to the best homes, it should be ok if a breeder happens to make a little profit.
If you are only doing it for profit, then that does not seem right. Just my

I don't think there's anything wrong with covering your expenses and making a profit.

I wouldn't say spaying/neutering is an added expense, you adjust the prices of the kittens accordingly to cover that. I know over here as vet prices, food bills etc. have gone up so have the kitten prices.

It's not necessary to be at every show, here that's twice a month and with pregnant girls most breeders will stay at home when they are due rather than be out with another cat.

Showing doesn't make a good breeder either, I know of people who come out every show chasing titles but I would never buy a kitten from them. Just having titles in the lines doesn't mean a whole lot.

I don't think that breeders should cut any corners to make a profit - and to me that includes showing occasionally, as far as I'm concerned that would be the thin end of the wedge.

I do think though that kittens are priced too low, good breeders should be able to get something back for their time and effort spent in raising well socialised, happy, healthy kittens. Profit is a bit of a dirty word, but recompense for time and labour shouldn't be seen in the same light.

i am not a breeder myself and really i think breeding to most breeder is not a business but rather a hobby.

i would like to ask anyone would want profit to keep a pet at home?! A good breeder's minimum should treat their cats (at least) like beloved pets!, and of course people don't get money from having pets at home!!!

To make a cattery profitable, the owner got to treat cats and kitties like goods store - to be honest, so far i have never see anyone who take constant care of a box of choclate and place it in a loarge nice shelf etc in stores. if the cattery treats cats like how supermarkets keep their chocolate, then they can also make a profit however, that's what we normally refered as the bad ones.

Therefore, IMO, Cattery making money or not all depends on the owners keep the cats as pets or as goods. pets are for fun and hobby but goods are own to make the most profit out of it!!!!

I don't think a cat breeder ever makes their money back in a business sense. You have to remember, profit now doesn't mean the next litter won't be a c section or mom have milk issues or who knows what.
Not to mention the kittens pay towards buying even better cats. I work in a breed that needs type setting still accomplished, frequent importation from Europe and Russia and a lot of work.

As to showing, I think showing is important but some catteries work with catteries that do show and recieve their feedback other than titles. This is important as well even for showing catteries.

I show 1-2 times per year and have a small program as I prefer to invest in new cats to diversify and work for the breed but my kittens also receive feedback from other breeders. Also, there is a health risk of having kittens at home and showing. I won't show when I have young kittens at home and any cat that does show is quarantined for 30 days to ensure something unsuspecting didn't come home.

I also don't take my kittens to the show hall as I don't feel their immune systems are ready for it. Therefore, in the 3 months I am without kittens (I have one litter at a time as a general rule) I get a show or two in with my studs. My girls live at home and sometimes after she is spayed, will show again.

Also, remember showing cats that are a breed in development can be winning in one show hall and losing entirely in another as type isn't fully set yet. Showing has it purposes and I love it, but I also see my breeds diversity and the health of my cats as important.

Profit in cat breeding may be from one litter but it can vanish overnight. The profit I made from last litter is paying for a new imported boy that will also cost more than that one litter.

Remember, profit is in the eyes of the beholder. What one person considers profit can vary. Anotherward, you may see profit as end of year surplus, profit may be per kitten or breaking even.
Daisy

There's nothing wrong with making a profit, but I have no idea how any breeder manage to earn even a buck or two.

I'm already so deep in the red from my startup costs that I doubt I will ever see a real profit from breeding. Tracking down new lines and bringing them into the states left me with hefty hotel and air bills. Not to mention that vet bills, top quality food (my cats eat Innova Evo dry and a variety of canned foods), stud housing, and show costs all conspire against me ever leaving the red. I'd be happy to just break even!

But. . . this is my beloved hobby, and I wouldn't change a bit of it! I'm not even sure if I'd want to "pet out" any kittens at first, since I'm more keen on establishing the validity of my imported lines. At this point, I'd rather place a cat for free in a show home than charge the going rate for a pet home. I suppose I'm pretty content to stay in the red if I'm willing to relinquish my one source of "profit"

I guess it's easy enough to see that there are costs to be covered, that are not inconsiderable, and that just covering them can be a challenge. What I think some people -- those that look on any breeding operation that "makes money" as not legitimate breeding -- might be missing in the equation is that, in addition to the "hard" costs of food, shelter, vet care, showing, acquiring good animals to boost the line, etc. etc., there is a significant "soft" cost -- that of the time, effort, expertise of the breeder. Should there not be some recompense for that? If the breeder in question chooses to take his total compensation from the pleasure he receives from this activity, that's his business, but I don't think he should be obliged to. If he hired someone to do this, he wouldn't get the service for free, so why should he give it for free?

Bottom line: knowing what we do about costs, I would be wary of a breeder who was laughing all the way to the bank, because I'd wonder which corners he had cut, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge a reasonable income from the operation. FWIW.

Originally Posted by rapunzel47

there is a significant "soft" cost -- that of the time, effort, expertise of the breeder. Should there not be some recompense for that? If the breeder in question chooses to take his total compensation from the pleasure he receives from this activity, that's his business, but I don't think he should be obliged to. If he hired someone to do this, he wouldn't get the service for free, so why should he give it for free?

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Bam! That's what I was looking for someone to realize and post it in this thread. You nailed it.
I work full time in my profession but so does my wife Teri. She stays at home and is not employed but hobby or not, she is the one who manages the cattery. She puts in a minimum 8 hours per day, 7 days a week.

She recently took a much deserved vacation to Germany for 10 days, and I took vacation from my job in order to take care of the cattery. Let me tell you I have a new found appreciation and respect for the amount of work and dedication it takes to care for these cats and kittens they way they need to be cared for.

My primary regular job in regards to our cattery, is transporation, entertainment, help with socialization, promotion and website development. Teri does the bulk of everything. Not an easy job in the least. Our kittens go out healthy, well adjusted and totally socialized because of her untiring efforts.

If you work as hard as Teri does 56 hours, plus, per week, some compensation should be expected.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Bam! That's what I was looking for someone to realize and post it in this thread. You nailed it.
I work full time in my profession but so does my wife Teri. She stays at home and is not employed but hobby or not, she is the one who manages the cattery. She puts in a minimum 8 hours per day, 7 days a week.

She recently took a much deserved vacation to Germany for 10 days, and I took vacation from my job in order to take care of the cattery. Let me tell you I have a new found appreciation and respect for the amount of work and dedication it takes to care for these cats and kittens they way they need to be cared for.

My primary regular job in regards to our cattery, is transporation, entertainment, help with socialization, promotion and website development. Teri does the bulk of everything. Not an easy job in the least. Our kittens go out healthy, well adjusted and totally socialized because of her untiring efforts.

If you work as hard as Teri does 56 hours, plus, per week, some compensation should be expected.

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I agree with you.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Bam! That's what I was looking for someone to realize and post it in this thread. You nailed it.
I work full time in my profession but so does my wife Teri. She stays at home and is not employed but hobby or not, she is the one who manages the cattery. She puts in a minimum 8 hours per day, 7 days a week.

She recently took a much deserved vacation to Germany for 10 days, and I took vacation from my job in order to take care of the cattery. Let me tell you I have a new found appreciation and respect for the amount of work and dedication it takes to care for these cats and kittens they way they need to be cared for.

My primary regular job in regards to our cattery, is transporation, entertainment, help with socialization, promotion and website development. Teri does the bulk of everything. Not an easy job in the least. Our kittens go out healthy, well adjusted and totally socialized because of her untiring efforts.

If you work as hard as Teri does 56 hours, plus, per week, some compensation should be expected.

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You are lucky to have Teri and Teri is lucky to have that as her "job"...many reputable breeders doing things right way that show, health test, make sure all animals are vet checked and in great health, have great food, are involved heavily in socialization, in dogs work their dogs, are part of clubs, etc. don't have the luxury of staying at home or having a significant other to stay at home 24/7 and they end up pretty much work all time which involves rearranging their schedules and days around the animals, but it is what they call a work of love, a consuming hobby Not a business.
I am glad you discovered a new found appreciation for how much does go into it Not the same but that reminds me of the dad who comes home for 3 hours a night on weekdays after work when mom has been home all day with the kids and also takes care of them of night of course, as moms are rarely off duty!

Originally Posted by cococat

You are lucky to have Teri and Teri is lucky to have that as her "job"...many reputable breeders doing things right way that show, health test, make sure all animals are vet checked and in great health, have great food, are involved heavily in socialization, in dogs work their dogs, are part of clubs, etc. don't have the luxury of staying at home or having a significant other to stay at home 24/7 and they end up pretty much work all time which involves rearranging their schedules and days around the animals, but it is what they call a work of love, a consuming hobby

Not a business.
I am glad you discovered a new found appreciation for how much does go into it

Not the same but that reminds me of the dad who comes home for 3 hours a night on weekdays after work when mom has been home all day with the kids and also takes care of them of night of course, as moms are rarely off duty!

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Yes we're lucky in that aspect.

One of the things I experienced first hand during my brief time as cattery manager, was that it takes less than 10 minutes for nine 8 week old kittens to undo 2 hours of cleaning in the kitten room.

And, just like a mom, Teri is never off duty, because as many of us know, pregnant queens never give birth at a reasonable hour during the daytime. They wait until 2 am! Teri is always right there with them.

I don't know why anyone would think a breeder shouldn't make a profit. Has anyone actually suggested this to you??

I've been under the impression that the reason a well run cattery can't expect a profit is because of market forces. That is, not enough people would be willing to pay the amount needed for a profit for a cat from a cattery.

Originally Posted by mschauer

I don't know why anyone would think a breeder shouldn't make a profit. Has anyone actually suggested this to you??

I've been under the impression that the reason a well run cattery can't expect a profit is because of market forces. That is, not enough people would be willing to pay the amount needed for a profit for a cat from a cattery.

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Plenty of people seem to think that if a breeder makes a profit then they are not doing enough for their cats. In their opinion being compensated for the hard work can only mean the breeder is in it for the money and therefore is a bad breeder. These things have also been stated by some members of TCS over the years I've been part of this site.


Well bred bengals command a high price and since there is a huge demand for these cats, it's not that difficult to make some profit, IF the breeder doesn't show.

We attend shows once or twice a month. Roughly 16 shows per year, at a cost of $600 to $1,000 per show, when we figure in entry fees, lodging, transportation (car or air) and meals.

Any profit from kitten sales is completely wiped out by showing, so we're usually in the hole every year in excess of 10 grand.

We could eliminate that problem entirely by just not showing, but bengals are a progressive breed, the standards just got changed again. Attending the shows allows us to stay cutting edge and remain pro-active.