Well, that's just silly. A lot of things get said in these forums that defy common sense despite getting approving responses from others. I try to ignore them.
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Breeder profits?
- Thread starter kai bengals
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I think it depends on the number of kittens produced each year, how many cats are actually purchased through other breeders (count the first 2 litters in my breed to pay for the cat) and how much showing cats you get. Also, if you got any health issues or cats that just don't make it into breeding (studs not figuring it out or females that don't get pregnant or need a c section or get pyo ect).
Daisy
Daisy
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals
One of the things I experienced first hand during my brief time as cattery manager, was that it takes less than 10 minutes for nine 8 week old kittens to undo 2 hours of cleaning in the kitten room.
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Nial - what did they change in the standards? I'd like to compare that to what the standards are in ACFA now. PM me if its too long to post
If it is a hobby you can not claim it on your taxes
If it is a business you will... and you better make a profit or the IRS will not be happy. At least after a few years. Keep the IRS happy! No one likes them snopping around. lol
Just an opinion from someone who knows nothing!
If it is a business you will... and you better make a profit or the IRS will not be happy. At least after a few years. Keep the IRS happy! No one likes them snopping around. lol
Just an opinion from someone who knows nothing!
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great theory cept yes after 5 yrs a non profiting business is a HOBBY in the eyes of the IRS ... In most juristications a cattery has to have a business lisencse and a tax ID numberOriginally Posted by Pauline
If it is a hobby you can not claim it on your taxes
If it is a business you will... and you better make a profit or the IRS will not be happy. At least after a few years. Keep the IRS happy! No one likes them snopping around. lol
Just an opinion from someone who knows nothing!
i am not in the breeding field therefore i don't know much about a cattery's P&L situation.
however i would like to say that it's a gift for me to have one of a reputable breeders' kitties living with me. i can't tell you how much it means to me and how much i would like to thank my breeder to have been willing to "sold" one of them to me.
as to me. having one of the precious kitties is a great gift and god knows how much fun they have brought to me since i had got them.
yes , i do think they may have put the price too low as now i will not sell mind with millions of dollars.
however i would like to say that it's a gift for me to have one of a reputable breeders' kitties living with me. i can't tell you how much it means to me and how much i would like to thank my breeder to have been willing to "sold" one of them to me.
as to me. having one of the precious kitties is a great gift and god knows how much fun they have brought to me since i had got them.
yes , i do think they may have put the price too low as now i will not sell mind with millions of dollars.
i think sometimes return may not only from financial aspect. there are still other kinds of satifactions from running a cattery that other profitable business as for IRS, i reckon cattery should list as a charity, as it is there to bring happiness and fun to other people rather than make profit. in that case, at least the owner can cover some of their cost with the tax reduction from IRS ... don't think the Gov will be wiiling to do so tho ....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Pauline
If it is a hobby you can not claim it on your taxes
If it is a business you will... and you better make a profit or the IRS will not be happy. At least after a few years. Keep the IRS happy! No one likes them snopping around. lol
Just an opinion from someone who knows nothing!
great theory cept yes after 5 yrs a non profiting business is a HOBBY in the eyes of the IRS ... In most juristications a cattery has to have a business lisencse and a tax ID number
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Allow paw pads to be a color other than black. Allow slight dip in the nose, rather than straight profile. Marbled cats may have patterned belly, rather than spotted.Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Nial - what did they change in the standards? I'd like to compare that to what the standards are in ACFA now. PM me if its too long to post
There are a few others minor things that escape me at the moment.
What other color paw pads would it be - you have brown and silvers so wouldn't they be black anyway? Or would some be a dark shade of brown?
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When I say "a good breeder won't make a profit" I need to learn to be more specific. I am referring to selling a puppy/kitten for $1,000 when you have very little $$ invested in that animal in terms of vet work.
I know some breeders here might sell their kitties for $1,000 or more, but they also put a lot of $$/effort into that kitty(many of them are altered prior to placement, kept UTD on shots, etc). My best example is the moron around here who sells Bulldog puppies. No genetic testing, one distemper/parvo shot....the pups go home @ 6 weeks. For a tune of $1,500-2,500/puppy. Doesn't require spay/neuter, or get that done prior to placement.
I know some breeders here might sell their kitties for $1,000 or more, but they also put a lot of $$/effort into that kitty(many of them are altered prior to placement, kept UTD on shots, etc). My best example is the moron around here who sells Bulldog puppies. No genetic testing, one distemper/parvo shot....the pups go home @ 6 weeks. For a tune of $1,500-2,500/puppy. Doesn't require spay/neuter, or get that done prior to placement.
From what I've gathered some of the whited belly (but still with the black spots or pattern on the belly) cats have paler paw pads so the change in standards makes it easier to really push for the whited belly.
I might be wrong though and I'll happily be corrected if I'm misremembering.
I love my cats.
I know nothing about breeding cats, and I will leave the breeding up to breeders who understand the genetics and all that. If a breeder can make a profit, without sacrificing the breed or the individual cat, or even the place where the cats and kittens live then great.
If, after my kids are grown and I do a lot of learning, maybe I would do this as a hobby alone.
It seems like such a wonderful hobby/business/competitive arena that it intrigues me.
Much more so then my DH's RC Airplane hobby that just cost us $500 for a broken plane and only flew it 3 times. That was after he just ordered a new plane on Sat for about 400-500. Geeze, talk about expensive. Airplanes do not cuddle well, although he brings the new ones into the bed room to look at. Weird.
I know nothing about breeding cats, and I will leave the breeding up to breeders who understand the genetics and all that. If a breeder can make a profit, without sacrificing the breed or the individual cat, or even the place where the cats and kittens live then great.
If, after my kids are grown and I do a lot of learning, maybe I would do this as a hobby alone.
It seems like such a wonderful hobby/business/competitive arena that it intrigues me.
Much more so then my DH's RC Airplane hobby that just cost us $500 for a broken plane and only flew it 3 times. That was after he just ordered a new plane on Sat for about 400-500. Geeze, talk about expensive. Airplanes do not cuddle well, although he brings the new ones into the bed room to look at. Weird.
This may be an "odd" comparison to make, but it seems to fit to me... I am an artist (well, I teach art atm, but I also paint and draw in my non-existant free time) and, while art could be considered a "hobby", unless one is a professional artist (i.e. starving and trying to live off your work). Most people do not have a problem with an artist making a "profit" from selling a painting, etc. To me, breeding is the same way...
From my view point, both artists and breeders are in those fields to do what they have a passion for... In that sense, you would still want to paint/sculpt/etc. or breed/show even if there was no chance of making any money from it, just because that is what you love to do.
However, if I sell a painting and cover more than my physical expenses (materials cost) that is acceptable, because of the artwork's originality and considerable time/effort put into the piece....Not to mention the fact that I went to college for 4 years for my BFA, so I have that overhead and expertise that should come into play in terms of my "cost" and what the buyer should pay... Can you imagine going into a gallery and offering to pay $100 for a painting because you knew that the cost of the canvas + brushes and paint was that much? No, you expect to pay over the materials cost to cover the "soft" expenses, as someone else said... A painting usually takes at least 20-30 hours (oil / water-based oil), so in addition to materials, you are paying for the artist's time...and, if at a reasonable "hourly" rate...that would be at least $300-$600 for the time, then the $100 for the materials, and of course the gallery mark up
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With breeding, although a degree isn't required, I would imagine that you still spend many hours researching genetics, going to shows, finding good breeding stock, not to mention caring for your cats... You also have the overhead of show expenses, etc... which are not directly related to the literal raising of the kittens... So, IMO, if you do charge enough per kitten that you do better than "break even", that should be more than acceptable....
Per my "painting" scenerio above, you could see that a breeder's time + supplies + medical expenses + overhead cost would be quite high, so when looking at the "profit" you must also consider what the final kitten cost - overhead leaves the breeder, then devide that by the hundreds of hours they have spent caring for that litter...Leaves very little when seen in terms of "hourly" pay.
One more point and I'll stop typing in this long-winded post
Whatever "profit" a breeder makes will actually, in the long run, go back into their kitten's care... Future litters, new breeding stock, advertising, etc. So, instead of thinking of it as "profit", think of it as $$ to help continue/support/improve their cattery.
Art
From my view point, both artists and breeders are in those fields to do what they have a passion for... In that sense, you would still want to paint/sculpt/etc. or breed/show even if there was no chance of making any money from it, just because that is what you love to do.
However, if I sell a painting and cover more than my physical expenses (materials cost) that is acceptable, because of the artwork's originality and considerable time/effort put into the piece....Not to mention the fact that I went to college for 4 years for my BFA, so I have that overhead and expertise that should come into play in terms of my "cost" and what the buyer should pay... Can you imagine going into a gallery and offering to pay $100 for a painting because you knew that the cost of the canvas + brushes and paint was that much? No, you expect to pay over the materials cost to cover the "soft" expenses, as someone else said... A painting usually takes at least 20-30 hours (oil / water-based oil), so in addition to materials, you are paying for the artist's time...and, if at a reasonable "hourly" rate...that would be at least $300-$600 for the time, then the $100 for the materials, and of course the gallery mark up
With breeding, although a degree isn't required, I would imagine that you still spend many hours researching genetics, going to shows, finding good breeding stock, not to mention caring for your cats... You also have the overhead of show expenses, etc... which are not directly related to the literal raising of the kittens... So, IMO, if you do charge enough per kitten that you do better than "break even", that should be more than acceptable....
Per my "painting" scenerio above, you could see that a breeder's time + supplies + medical expenses + overhead cost would be quite high, so when looking at the "profit" you must also consider what the final kitten cost - overhead leaves the breeder, then devide that by the hundreds of hours they have spent caring for that litter...Leaves very little when seen in terms of "hourly" pay.
One more point and I'll stop typing in this long-winded post
Whatever "profit" a breeder makes will actually, in the long run, go back into their kitten's care... Future litters, new breeding stock, advertising, etc. So, instead of thinking of it as "profit", think of it as $$ to help continue/support/improve their cattery.
Art
Disclaimer: I know nothing about showing and breeding so forgive my ignorance!
Why is it so important for cats to be shown? Is it like a test of the breed, if it does well, the breed is thriving?
I don't get that part.
Why is it so important for cats to be shown? Is it like a test of the breed, if it does well, the breed is thriving?
I don't get that part.
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By showing you ( the breeder) find out HOW your cats compare with the standards set to improve the cat to the IDEAL for that breed..
And to think I thought (before becoming a little educated) that is was like a beauty pageant. Judging looks. I never really thought further than that. Ignorance! lol.
I have never been to any kind of show. Except for a horse show.
Pauline, I suggest you attend a local cat show - look at the show calendars in CFA, ACFA, or TICA and find one you can go to. I think you'd learn a lot.
The goal is to improve the breed - to breed as close to the "perfect" cat according to the standards. By attending shows and showing your cat, you will know if your cat is worthy of being a breeder. You develop contacts. You can only do so much with your cats - sooner or later you have to add a new line or two so your cats don't become too inbred.
Most breeders want to sell to other breeders who's lines are compatable and will improve the type of the cat for both catterys. That is why you need to be out there among the other breeders/show people.
I've been showing cats for over 25 yrs and breeding about 10 yrs. I pretty much know the standards of most of the breeds and still am out there learning about the newer ones - what makes a good example. I can tell for the most part if you own a showable cat or a pet quality just on photos. I sit in the rings in the front to listen to the judge and to evaluate the cats I see.
Many times I'll pick out the 1st place, 2nd place, etc. on the cats - am accurate as to how the judge places them 90% of the time. Sometimes I might have the order wrong, but I can judge which ones are good or bad.
That is only achieved by being at the shows
The goal is to improve the breed - to breed as close to the "perfect" cat according to the standards. By attending shows and showing your cat, you will know if your cat is worthy of being a breeder. You develop contacts. You can only do so much with your cats - sooner or later you have to add a new line or two so your cats don't become too inbred.
Most breeders want to sell to other breeders who's lines are compatable and will improve the type of the cat for both catterys. That is why you need to be out there among the other breeders/show people.
I've been showing cats for over 25 yrs and breeding about 10 yrs. I pretty much know the standards of most of the breeds and still am out there learning about the newer ones - what makes a good example. I can tell for the most part if you own a showable cat or a pet quality just on photos. I sit in the rings in the front to listen to the judge and to evaluate the cats I see.
Many times I'll pick out the 1st place, 2nd place, etc. on the cats - am accurate as to how the judge places them 90% of the time. Sometimes I might have the order wrong, but I can judge which ones are good or bad.
That is only achieved by being at the shows
I think I will. There are some up coming shows in my this area. Well, at least within 80 miles. Nothing is close to here. LOL.
