Amitriptyline for Olley

Our vet took another urine sample and it came back with a small amount of bacteria, however, she said that it was such a minute amount it wasn't even worth considering it as a problem. However, she did give us clavamox (again) and talked with us about his Behavioral Issue.

He's been on the amitriptyline for about 5 days now, we have 25 more to go. The vet said that we will see how this works and how he copes afterwards, if there's any remission in his behavior. So far, so good which is wonderful because we JUST moved into a new house and were very lucky that our landlord allowed us to have pets inside. Initially he wasn't going to due to bad past experiences with previous tenants. So, no pee yet. I'll probably jinx myself saying that- I always do.

If he goes into remission after the current medication is up we may switch to prozac. The downside which is noticeable is his sedated demeanor with the amitriptyline. I just hope and pray this works.

(Backstory: Olley has peed on things, sprayed, squatted, anything. We tried different litters, more boxes, more cleaning of boxes, different foods, sprays, no luck was had. If he'd get upset he'd pee, if you looked at him funny, he'd pee. We couldn't figure out what to do. There were never any UTI's, no stones, no crystals. Basically he's always fit the bill of good health, so we couldn't understand what was wrong.)

We used amitriptyline with Spooky when we worked with her for months to no avail when her peeing outside the box was behavioral. She was on it for - 4 -5 months? The first three weeks she slept a LOT, but after that she pretty much got back to her normal self. And after we weaned her off the amitriptyline - no more problems.

I don't know if a month will do it - but I wouldn't just stop it cold after that month. I don't know what your vet is suggesting, but I'd wean Olley off of it by lowering his dose by 1/2 for a week, then using that dose every other day for the next week.

Amitriptyline doesn't work so much as an anti-depressant - but it seems to work really well for behavioral pee problems. It causes the cats to retain their pee - which for some reason then encourages them to use the box. Go figure.

Knock wood you didn't jinx anything by writing about how he's doing!

Hope things continue to go well.

Laurie

I imagine my vet will want to hear back from us soon. I think the months worth is more or less so she can tell whether he has any bad reactions to it.

I'll talk to her about getting another two months worth just in case.

And yeah, he's sleeping a lot. But I also think he's just hiding since we moved.

Update:

Last night was a nightmare. Olley refused the amit. but we managed to get down some clavamox. Unfortunately he vomited everything up and had continue to vomit till around 9:30 this morning. He couldn't hold down food or water so we ran him to the vet.

They checked his weight, blood, feces, and temperature while they put him on an IV to rehydrate him, and everything turned up ok. However they told us to take him off the meds and give him anti-vomiting medication.

Apparently there is a topical now for the amitriptyline, we will be trying that after this fiasco is over :/

I've used the topical--and it caused a rash for my cat. Be sure and rotate areas to minimize irritation. Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did.

It really sounds like your cat was sick from the antibiotic, as those are notorious for causing nausea/vomiting. You might want to try the oral again in a few days--without the clavamox.

Oh hunny, this sounds like such a handful. Sammy almost went on it because he had "episodes" at 4 AM and I was so sleep deprived I almost got in a head-on car collision, but we found this litter at Petco just in time and we have had no episodes since - 6 months. Granted his behavior was not as extreme as yours. I recall how exhausted I was going through it and my heart and prayers go out to you BIG. Keep sane. Keep loving him. You're doing everything right.
Laurie has GREAT advice, too. Keep talking to LDG

Originally Posted by pee-cleaner

I've used the topical--and it caused a rash for my cat. Be sure and rotate areas to minimize irritation. Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did.

It really sounds like your cat was sick from the antibiotic, as those are notorious for causing nausea/vomiting. You might want to try the oral again in a few days--without the clavamox.

Click to expand...

For the moment the vet said to keep him off of both. I did research and noticed that the clavamox has that tendency to make cats vomit over time. We have always had a hard time giving him oral medications, he fights it and it wastes pills :/ We've never seen any reaction to topical type medications with him before so I'm willing to give it a shot, just to try.

Sasha: We tried allll sorts of litters and he just continue to pee wherever he wanted. We used kitten and cat attract litters with the cat attract stuff that goes into the litter. No luck. His peeing was ingrained into him before we ever got him.


I think the hardest most hearbreaking thing for me right now is that we JUST Moved. And our "Just moving" also involved starting his medications. It upsets me because I don't want him to associate the new house with being a bad place After administering meds we've been spending at least 15 minutes of Olley only time with lots of pets and such. He knows to go to the bedroom now and sit on the bed for pets, which is a good thing. It just kills me to have to shove pills and liquids on him.

Another frustrating issue.

Now that the cats are indoors all the time (the 3 in/outs have always been so) we have to deal with the dominance problems. Dominance problems only seem to be occurring at night. Last night was the worst so far.

Since Olley has been off the amit. he's perked up a lot and has become more affectionate, more vocal and more needy. He's also become more aggressive towards Bob. Last night when my husband and I went to bed and the lights were off the nightly disaster started. Bob would walk the house as he has been doing since moving in and "Mnow-ow"ing, then we'd hear one of the cats squeal. Olley would NOT stop humping Bob, he wouldn't stop chasing him down to hump him. Usually in this instance Bob is the trouble maker so I was taking the squirt bottle to him (usually doesn't work anyway considering he's a bath tub cat). At around 2:30am I finally got up and camped out in the living room to figure out what was going on. Once I figured it out I didn't know what to do ;_;

For me to not sleep has it's downsides, but for my husband I feel worse for him since he goes to work.

I plan on calling the vet back today to talk about the topical amit. for Olley and get him back on his meds asap. I don't want his pee problem to return or become worse now that everyone is inside.

;_;

Until my vets can make up their minds, we are putting Olley back on the amit. He peed in the bath tub again. He's been harassing Bob at night.

The fact that this is a behavioral issue is frustrating to myself and my husband, we can't have him peeing in the new house. If the meds end up not working he will have to find a new home, preferably to be a barn cat. We know a few people who have a barn, who may take him, but we aren't certain.

I don't want to think of that either, but, if all fails

Sunday morning Olley peed in the bathtub. He had been on the Amit. for a week.

HOWEVER. My husband and I talked and we agreed that this incident should slide for three reasons:

1)We'd had company since Thursday and I hadn't cleaned the litterboxes Saturday. The litterboxes were full.

2)It was week two on kitty litter since the move and I had told myself every two weeks I would start emptying and cleaning the boxes on fridays. That didn't happen either because company was here and we had appointments to attend all friday.

3)He had only been back on the meds for a week after having a 3 day break because the clavamox made him sick.

Those things combined: I wouldn't pee or crap in a stinky full litterbox myself even if I was on meds. So in his case I can understand.

Ever since we've moved I've been cleaning litter twice a day, morning and night since with all the cats being inside now (YAY!) the boxes fill up much faster than before. Olley has been doing great otherwise. There's an obvious change in his attitude, he's more friendly, more playful. The only downside is I still consistently feel awful about giving him meds, but, he is taking them a lot better.

I completly sympathize with you! Just my own experience, but Kitty did not like Amitrip. at all and actually started peeing out of the box as soon as she started it for some reason (she needed it for #2 potty reasons). It works by making them have to pee less often, the vet told me. Mine is off that stuff for good, but there is hope- maybe he'll grow out of it, and I've heard alot of good things about Feliway. Good luck (I know its hard)

We've used Feliway and it doesn't do anything unfortunately. And I'm becoming fairly impatient with my vets since they've had two weeks to decide if we should put him on something else. I had to wrap up Olley in a blanket this morning because he was fighting me so much

Olley has been peeing in the tub for the last several days now.

I finally heard back from our vet who is ordering us the topical treatment that is rubbed on the inside of the ears and is absorbed through the skin. We'll see how that goes :/

Well. Olley peed on the bed last night while I was asleep.

My husband and I are coming down to finding Olley a home as a permanent outdoor cat. He knows someone at work who has a friend that is interested in having an outdoor "barn cat" so we may take that route.

We can't have him urinating everywhere in our rental home. The landlord initially wasn't going to allow any pets inside at all. We told him our pets won't destroy his home, and they won't- minus Olley peeing.

We can't do this, and I can't take the stress of him being unhappy.

Before you find Olley a barn home, please check into some of these things. Believe me, I know where you are coming from. My Stomper and Izzy HATE each other. They intimidate each other and have pee-pee wars.

I have them both on Prozac and it has made an amazing difference. Almost no urinating ( which was ALL over the Kitchen counters, bottom cupboards and the bathroom EVERY night.)

Now I may find a spray spot or two after I have been away overnight.

I was at the same place you are, only I was considering having Stomper PTS if an indoor only home could not be found for him. He is terrified of being outside by himself. No way would he adapt to being a barn kitty.


It is so very stressful, not only having to constantly clean up pee and have things ruined, but how unhappy the cats are. My Izzy was literally traumatized. She would be so much happier as an only kitty, but the Prozac has improved her quality of life tremendously.


I found an excellent article about the different medications for aggression and inappropriate urination in cats. Each medicine works a little differently and should be used for different types of personalities.

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...1038&O=Generic

No doubt the extra stress of moving and now having 3 kitties having to transition to indoor only kitties is making matters worse. There may be much more intimidation going on than you are aware of.

Also, are you sure that it is only Olley who is peeing inappropriately? I thought it was only Stomper at first. Then I got a motion/IR activated "game spy" camera and found the Izzy was doing it just as much as Stomper. You may find you have two culprits who both need to be on medication.

I don't know your financial situation, but there are several national compounding pharmacies that will make chicken, liver or tuna flavored "chews" for the medication. this is what I use, I do however chop them up into smaller pieces and mix them in with one of their wet food feedings.

I have recently just found Pill Pockets which are literally the best thing since sliced bread IMO. Zoe my horrible kitty to medicate. NOTHING is going to be forced into her mouth, period! I had to learn how to give shots in order to give her antibiotics she is that bad. Now she has CRF and has to take meds. I found that breaking her pills in half then covering them with a layer of the pill pocket treats she just swallows them right down. She thinks they are a treat! She did not like the Transdermal ear gel. After about a month her ears started to get irritated.

Of course, Olley himself may just be much happier as a barn kitty as well. My mom has a kitty like that. She was starving herself to death in the house she was so unhappy. She now lives in the barn and is a healthy, happy kitty. She can come in the house any time she wants, but chooses never to do so. So if you know that the people who take him will monitor his health ( make sure he isn't getting repeated urinary tract infections) feed him quality food to help prevent UTIs , then the barn home might just be the best thing for everyone.

I feel so bad for you and your husband. I know all too well how stressful being in this situation is. Sending lots of vibes that everything gets straighten out in a positive way for all.

My Muddy tested clean for crystals, stones and bacteria infections and he was still peeing in ceramic dog food bowls and on hard stone surfaces. We just diagnosed him with a form of cystitus, which causes an inflammed bladder. He was peeing on cold surfaces because it made him feel better. Perhaps Ollie has a similar problem which is why his preferred place is the bath tub? Your story just sounded close to Muddy's.

My vet suggested making a litter box with ceramic tile in the bottom if that was his preference for peeing. Add litter a little bit at a time and eventually work out the tile.

And just fyi - xrays don't always accurately diagnose stones. An ultrasound is a better tool for that.

Hey guys:

Olley literally got a Clean Bill of Health. They did an ultrasound on him and found nothing, they've done xrays, they've done blood tests, they've checked his kidneys. He has nothing wrong with him.

He's always peed like this, it's just gotten worse over the last several months. And it is only Olley peeing, he's done it right in front of us several times ;__; Yesterday he attempted to pee in the tub while I was on the pot and the moment I shoo'd him off he went to the litter box.

The problem is that the pills are stressing him out EVEN MORE. The more I force the pills on him the more upset he gets and the more he's been peeing. This is what we've noticed. And Olley chews everything into teeny bits, so pill pocketting with treats doesn't work. I wish it did.

Our vet seems to neglect any idea of using Prozac, I've mentioned it a few times already and she wants to continue to try the Amit. which obviously IS NOT WORKING. This can't happen in a rental home who, the landlord was kind enough to even allow the pets inside... (this is before I learned how a previous tenant, a hoarder, had 17 cats in his efficiency next door of 600sqft of space..He had to rip up EVERYTHING). I mentioned to her that maybe the dosage needs to be increased and she kind of blew it off. I could be reading into this wrong, but dear lord. I can't and Olley can't take this.

The only other option we have is to keep him outside, but that leads to problems for the cats who were once outside and are now inside. Once they say "Hey, why aren't we outside too?" and start howling at the door I'll be a wreck.

From when I talked to the last owner of Olley, she said that he hated being inside and shredded the screen to get out. And so he would stay out.

I dont know, at this point I'm very upset, confused, and angry. I'm upset because he's a great cat otherwise (aside from his meowing all night to go outside) and so friendly. I'm confused because I can't decide if I should do what's best, or what's easiest, and which one is which? I'm angry because I can't keep sitting by and waiting for the vet to "decide" on whether he should be on something else when I've heard a lot of praise for prozac in unhappy cats.

I don't know if this would work with Ollie at all, but here's what I did with my Muddy: Every time I saw him walking to an area where he would inappropriately pee, I'd pick him up and drop him in the litter box. He would squat and pee every single time I did this to him. He got massive praise and love from me afterwards. Knock on wood, he hasn't peed outside the litterbox in about 2 months now and he was peeing periodically outside the box for about 9 months before that. Of couse this doesn't work if your not around all the time to watch him.

Cat Haus, I hope you didn't get the impression that I thought you didn't know what was really going on. I didn't mean to give that impression, I just wanted to cover all bases as problems like this are usually multifaceted.

I know you said that you see Ollie urinating right in front of you. That is what my Stomper did too, MONSTER! So I just figured all the pee spots were his, even if I didn't see him do it. I was wrong. I never saw Izzy pee, she was smart enough to make sure NOT to do it in front of me. It was only after getting the photos did I find out I had two that were peeing.

I then started watching their interactions very closely and there are definite aggression issues going on, some so subtle to the human eye that they are missed if not specifically looking for them. With your indoor/outdoor kitties now forced to be indoor only there is probably much more intimidation and stress going on than you see on the surface. Aggression and intimidation can be carried out just by a look. This mean not having overt cat fights does not mean you don't have interaction/aggression issues in the household.

Please read the article in the link I posted above. It is from the World Small Animal Veterinary Association's 30th annual meeting. The title is:

The Association between Feline Elimination and Feline Aggression Disorders
Karen L. Overall, MA, VMD, PhD, DACVB, ABS Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist
Center for Neurobiology and Behavior, School of Medicine, Psychiatry Department, University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA, USA

Print it out and highlight the parts relevant to Ollie and the particular behavior modification medicine that would work best for him. If your vet is not willing to look at this data and agree to change to a more appropriate medication, they you really need to change vets.





Prozac is just one of six different medications discussed in this article. This table gives a brief explanation of there best uses

Table 2. Useful medications (brand names are those in the US) for the treatment of intercat aggression and concomitant elimination concerns, with algorithm for use based on mechanisms of action and side effects
1. Diazepam (Benzodiazepine; Valium): for the victim, primarily, to make more outgoing and friendlier; for the aggressor if aggression is secondary to anxiety about interaction and increased friendliness will help.
2. Amitriptyline (TCA; Elavil): for the victim or aggressor with non-specific anxiety.
3. Nortriptyline (TCA; Pamelor): for the victim or aggressor with non-specific anxiety and sedation with amitriptyline.
4. Clomipramine (TCA; Clomicalm): for the victim or aggressor with more specific anxiety.
5. Buspirone (NSA; BuSpar): for the victim, only; may make more outgoing and situation resolves with some overt aggression.
6. Fluoxetine, paroxetine (SSRI; Prozac, Paxil): for more specific anxieties involving outburst (fluoxetine) and social (paroxetine) anxieties.



Also, please don't discount the possibility of Olley having cystitis. He really does show the signs and often times all tests are normal. I too have a cystitis kitty. It started when she was 6 months old. Now at age 12 her bladder lining is showing up thickened on Ultrasound, but it didn't when she was younger.

Cosequin for Cats, really does help with cystistis pain and bladder inflammation. I get mine through Amazon and it is half price. I think it is $54 for like 8 or 9 months worth. It is a chicken flavored sprinkle cap, just open it and sprinkle on the food. Zoe loves it and she hates everything, including human tuna.


I mentioned the pill pockets, because you could then get generic prozac at a place like Wal Mart for $4.00 for thirty pills. My cats need 2.5 mg so I can get 10 mg pills and quarter them with a pill cutter. These pieces are very small. I then take a small piece of the pill pocket and flatten it out and just barely cover the quarter of a pill. I make sure the cut sides are covered good so they will not scratch on the way down. The cats don't chew it and they think it is a treat. I put it in their food dish (all 7 of mine have their own dishes) and make sure they eat it before giving them their dinner.

You are going to have to get creative and have a vet that is willing to work with you.


As I said in my previous post, all of this may just be an exercise in futility. There are those rare cats who really do not want to be house cats...period. Most cats, given the choice would prefer to be indoor/outdoor cats, however there are those that are terrified of outside and those that just feel trapped inside.

I know many people are dead set against barn homes, however you have to make the right choice for your household and Olley. A barn home may be the best choice. I don't know.

For me it wasn't an option. Stomper was a breeding Tom at a kitty mill. He spent the first couple years of his life in a small cage, only socializing when he was used to breed. Not an option for him to be outside.

Izzy is a terrified former feral, if put outside she would disappear and not come back.

Finding a new home for these cats is difficult because even if they go to a home where they would be an only cat, there is still no guarantee they would not start peeing there too.

Hopefully after printing out the article ( there is a printer friendly version link in the upper right hand corner) your vet will help you get a medication that will work in a form that Olley will take without being traumatized. Adding the Cosequin to test it out will NOT hurt him and you don't need a vet to purchase it.