munchkins and similar new breeds

I'm back to clarify something, Pete. The cats do not need to be registered to show. They do need to be registered for year end awards but you can register them within 30 after the close of the show in order to get the points. If you need any other info, let me know. I hope you come. We have a blast.

Frannie

Hi Pete, I have been off for awhile because I am the president of an animal rescue organization and don't get to post for fund very often, but I wanted to clarify a few things. Frannie, I don't have a LaPerm - I have a wonderful, near perfect, Selkirk Rex. But, I am bringing two neutered LaPerm males to the Florida show that will be for sale - obviously won't help anyone in a breeding program.

I have friends that are LaPerm breeders - both their catteries are registered with AACE because they also have munchkins. They would be willing to register their LaPerms to get them into the NBC class at AACE. I will be glad to give you Solveig and Cheri's email addresses if you would like to discuss breeding with them - they are both very open to lending their lines or providing a breeder in exchange for a kitten. Let me know if you are interested - you can contact me through my website - www.listnow.com/helpingpaws - and go into my email through the site.

Frannie - my judge's book says declawed cats cannot be shown - and the only exception is in HHP if you can prove the cat was declawed when you adopted it. I would be very upset to find out a whole or alter could be shown as a declaw, or if you were allowed to show a cat you declawed yourself. No association allows declawed purebreds - and as far as I know, either does AACE. There are always waivers and I understand the waiver comes from proving the HHP was declawed when you got it, If a purebred is declawed, it is maimed and not a whole cat. I will look in the judge's manual and send you the section.

I think that I have covered all the questions that I wanted to - I think you (Pete) should come to the Tampa show - we will have the LaPerms there on Exhibition because they are not NBC yet - but come and introduce yourself and lets talk about getting the breed accepted.

I also understand you have Norwegian Forest Cats (there is an awesome breed). Why don't you show one of them? Go onto the site (AACEinc.org) and find out about the show, how to register, etc. It would be wonderful to see a Norwegian from a different breeder - the ones I had on my television show were just incredible!

Frannie just told me that two breeders have shown their declawed cats in AACE - the cats were declawed for medical reasons. She said that it is allowed - I am going searching, because I was led to believe it is not, but until then I defer to her knowledge as a judge.

Rene,
Thank you for all the information. I have Solveig's email addy as she subscribes to my LaPerm group as well but I would appreciate Cheri's. You may send it to my personal email at [email protected] if you prefer not to post it publicly. Thanks again.
Also, I went to the AACE site but as yet there is no info concerning the Tampa show, just a blurb stating there were new clubs and show dates to be posted when available.

Pete

Morning Pete

I can give you the infor for the Tampa show if you would like. First of all it's September 29-30 at the Convention Center in St. Pete. Second of all, it's 8 rings, 4 each day. Third of all, it would be an honor to meet you. Hope this helps and if you need any other info, e-mail me.

Frannie

Poizonkiss,

I suggest you go to the library or buy the book, Robinson's Genetics for Cat Breeders and Veterinarians. After you delve through this book about cat breeds,genetic faults and the fixing of any trait or characteristic, you may become enlightened about all the CFA recognized breeds of today.

I've been a breeder and promoter of Polydactyl cats (which is a naturally occuring genetic fault) for over 15 yrs. myself and other poly breeders would like to be recognized by CFA and the other cat assocciations. But because of the woman in TX breeding the TWISTY Cats, all the assocciations think all Poly breeders are creating TWISTY'S, this simply isn't true,they also believe that by breeding two polys together then the result would be a litter of will TWISTY'S, again this isn't true! Though it is true that if one poly does not have dewclaws, but does have an extra toe on the front feet, and a considerable amount of inbreeding has occured, then the possiblitily of producing a TWISTY does STRONGLY exist. In all my yrs. of breeding polys, to date, I've NEVER had one TWISTY nor any other kind of deformed kitten (except for extra toes)which does not harm, nor in any way keep these cats from doing anything God intended a cat to do.

I resent people like you who get on a pulpit and start preaching about an issue on which they obviously have not done any research on.

Toni

Originally posted by PrestonsPolys
Poizonkiss,

I suggest you go to the library or buy the book, Robinson's Genetics for Cat Breeders and Veterinarians. After you delve through this book about cat breeds,genetic faults and the fixing of any trait or characteristic, you may become enlightened about all the CFA recognized breeds of today.

I've been a breeder and promoter of Polydactyl cats (which is a naturally occuring genetic fault) for over 15 yrs. myself and other poly breeders would like to be recognized by CFA and the other cat assocciations. But because of the woman in TX breeding the TWISTY Cats, all the assocciations think all Poly breeders are creating TWISTY'S, this simply isn't true,they also believe that by breeding two polys together then the result would be a litter of will TWISTY'S, again this isn't true! Though it is true that if one poly does not have dewclaws, but does have an extra toe on the front feet, and a considerable amount of inbreeding has occured, then the possiblitily of producing a TWISTY does STRONGLY exist. In all my yrs. of breeding polys, to date, I've NEVER had one TWISTY nor any other kind of deformed kitten (except for extra toes)which does not harm, nor in any way keep these cats from doing anything God intended a cat to do.

I resent people like you who get on a pulpit and start preaching about an issue on which they obviously have not done any research on.

Toni

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Toni,
I have read through this thread and I believe the problem Poizonkiss mentioned was breeding cats with DEFORMED bones, limbs, or other parts. Personally, I don't feel Polys are considered deformed, are they? I saw no mention specifically of Polys as being deformed or the topic of conversation. In my opinion a Persian would be more likely to be deformed than a Poly, but I'm not saying they are either. Are you being a little oversensitive or have Polys taken a lot of unjustified heat lately? Not being all that familiar with Polys I would be interested in learning more about this characteristic. I mean no offense, I'm just trying to get a handle on the turn this thread seems to have taken.

Pete

Hi Pete,

Sorry if it sounded strong, if Poizonkiss thinks Munchkins are deformed why wouldn't this person also feel polys too are deformed?

Toni

I did not see any mention of poly's in the threads either. Of course I know about the controversy you face. I was not aware that people were breeding for that aspect. Are you breeding domestics or are you using pure breeds? Of course I have a problem with breeding the poly Munchkins because we are having such a hard time getting them recognised to begin with.

Hi Sandie,

It was back in the threads on 5/22/01 Donna was responding to Poizonkiss and brought in about Karma Farms TWISTY'S, anyone who has read anything about the twisty's has also read how these people used polys to create those poor little furbabies, I was only stating so everyone would know poly breeders are not twisty breeders.

Toni

Originally posted by PrestonsPolys
Hi Pete,

Sorry if it sounded strong, if Poizonkiss thinks Munchkins are deformed why wouldn't this person also feel polys too are deformed?

Toni

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Hi Toni,
I think we got Poizonkiss more informed about the Munchkins; I think they were being confused with Twistycats and that was where the confusion occurred.
You need to understand that this site is not like most of the others in that we are all willing and eager to learn about the new and different things without prejudice. Even when there are disagreements they are polite, informed, educational and without anger, malice, prejudice or flaming. It may be hard for you to believe but this situation actually exists here and I had to do a lot of readjusting as it is not something you find on other sites, I'm sorry to say. People here are actually WILLING to listen, a rarity in today's society.
Glad to have you here and I hope you enjoy this site as much as I do.
Pete

Well folks I am adding my two cents into this too - no matter whether it is a cat breeder or a dog breeder - anyone breeding deformities should be hung by their toes - any reputable breeder will be well versed on any gentic problem that occurs or could occur - and know what to do - the Munchkins had a bad rep at first and now they are very much accepted as the reputable breeders did the right breedings to be sure of no defects - let me give you an example - I had a mother cat throw a minimal pectus kitten - one in a litter of 4 - he is in a wonderful pet home BTW - happy and very healthy - I altered Mom, Dad and every baby - I stopped it dead in its tracks before it could get into my breed - a non reputable breeder would have kept right on going - the Cat Fancy and I am sure the dog fancy is full of each type of breeder - the good ones are doing the best they can they bad ones............... they "mill" out kittens to unsuspecting buyers. Just my thoughts. Sandie: I saw my first Munchkin last Fall in person - I loved them - could see myself with one for a pet . Linda

Toni..Aha..thats where it came from. I was actually unaware of the poly's were used for twisty cats. I actually think Poly's are pretty neat. Rene has one and I told her if she has a rescue, I would like to consider it.
Comrade...Well said!! That is a fact in ALL breeding situations. Thank you for the remark on the Munchkins. I really beleive that if people would see them at home and in their regular routines, they would feel the same or close.

Comradekitties...

I, for one, applaud you for doing that very thing! If more breeders would realize the potential carried by all the cats in a line that produces deformities that are harmfull or hav the potential to be harmfull (i'm thinkin ya'll know what I mean by that)then we would have alot less problems.

Ken

Did you guys know that more poly's come from the North end of Boston than any place else? Well you do now - I love poly's - however have seen some with so many toes they had to have some of the claws removed for their own health and safety - ? for anyone who might know - Frannie probably you as a judge - and yes this is Dori's friend - does the cat fancy allow any breeds with double paws? Linda

This is only AACE I am talking about. The only Poly's that can be shown are household pets. Rene has shown one of hers ahwile back. Most breed descriptions I have read in detail even specify that extra toes are an NFA.

I didn't think anyone allowed poly's at one time some MC breeders had thoughts of bringing them back. Linda

Hey Comrade, what's minimal pectus mean?

Pectus is a deformity of the rib cage - also is found in humans too - this kit had an indentation of his sternum that calcified - some have it so bad their ribs can be fused together. Linda

You know, I have never really gotten into the aspect of Poly's. I had really never thought about breeding it into a cat on purpose. Now, if one was to breed it into an already established breed, wouldn't you have to change the standard to reflect that. I can't see a standard stating that a cat may or may not have extra toes. It either does or doesn't. Wouldnt you have to come up with a whole new standard and breed name??