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Who's their daddy?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
If this is mom with her whole litter, am I correct in assuming that it is very likely the father is red? They are all females. Crazy, I know...3 red females in one litter (cream is just dilute red).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24956202@N04/2425789251/

The owners said they weren't sure about the father, but that there had been a long hair red male hanging around about the time mom got pregnant!

I've been reading a bit about genetics, but things get a little confusing when you put a calico into the mix. She would have the red and black X chromosomes, and if dad's red, he would have the red X only. So, looks like 3 got red from both, and one got black from mom and red from dad. Does that sound right? Are there any other possibilities for a father?

I love genetics....but I haven't done them in ages....so I'm really just curious!
post #2 of 27
You are correct! In oder to get a red female from a tortie/calico mom you have to have a red male!

And since you have creams and blues, they both have to be at least carriers of the dilute gene.

I am a huge genetics fan too! I only do them virtually, but have fun doing them regardless.
post #3 of 27
By the way, if the father is a long-hair, the kittens have a 50/50 chance of being long-hair as well, but ONLY if the mother is a long-hair carrier. Otherwise they will all be short.

Of course a 50% chance doesnt mean she will have 2 and 2... we all know how the lottery works...

By the way, the kits are gorgeous. I love the dilute tortie!
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
In this case, the 50% was right on the money. The dilute torti and the lighter red tabby are both long/medium hair. The cream and red tabby are short hair.

I would have loved to see the dilute torti in person. However, she was already gone. I got the medium hair red tabby (Belle) and the short hair red tabby (Delilah)

I find genetics so interesting. It's just amazing how a certain set of circumstances collide to create a specific set of kittens. Like if their mom didn't have the dilute gene, they would be a completely different set of kittens!
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
In this case, the 50% was right on the money. The dilute torti and the lighter red tabby are both long/medium hair. The cream and red tabby are short hair.

I would have loved to see the dilute torti in person. However, she was already gone. I got the medium hair red tabby (Belle) and the short hair red tabby (Delilah)

I find genetics so interesting. It's just amazing how a certain set of circumstances collide to create a specific set of kittens. Like if their mom didn't have the dilute gene, they would be a completely different set of kittens!
I know and there is such a wide array with cats. Gotta love the virtual possibilities!

I've seen a dilute calico before (I fostered a dilute tortie last year), but never a long-haired one - I bet she was stunning!
post #6 of 27
Sorry if this is hijacking of the thread, but I also wonder what my cats will produce when they breed. Female is calico and male is black smoke. Anyone wanna take an educational guess? Also, how much influence do the breeding pair's parents make on the litters, if any? (ie: in humans you always hear about someone having grandma's nose, grandpa's chin)

Susan
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewch View Post
Sorry if this is hijacking of the thread, but I also wonder what my cats will produce when they breed. Female is calico and male is black smoke. Anyone wanna take an educational guess? Also, how much influence do the breeding pair's parents make on the litters, if any? (ie: in humans you always hear about someone having grandma's nose, grandpa's chin)

Susan
They can have black boys and girls, red boys and tortie girls and any dilute versions if they carry the dilute gene.

This is where knowing the parentage helps. You may be able to tell if they are carriers of a certain gene by knowing who their parents were.

For example, you have a short-hair cat, but you know one of their parents was long-hair; therefore, the short-hair cat is a long-hair carrier, which can be passed on to it's offspring.

So yes, knowing who the parents are can be extremely helpful, or extremely confusing - lol!
post #8 of 27
Well, my male's mother was tortishell, father was black smoke and dark brown points. My female's father was very silver colored. I don't have information on the mother as my breeder didn't have mom at the home at the time so I didn't see her. Oh, and they're Devon Rexes, so not much hair at all LOL

I am hoping for more calicos though, as that seems to be popular with my waiting list "wants" LOLOL

Susan
post #9 of 27
That litter is beautiful! My Nadette is a dilute Calico. I can look at her for hours.
post #10 of 27
I will post here instead of starting a new thread. My Coco is half Siamese but she was the only one that was Black and White from her Litter. Her Mom was a Seal Point Siamese. we g.ot her at a Pet Store when she was a Kitten. She had Kittens once and Bred with a Orange and White Tabby which I guess you call Red. She had one all Black Kitten Midnight and 4 Calicos. Two were born dead and were Calico Males. The other two were Females. My Oreo that has Fcks is from a Calico and the father my Brother dosent know what is. Oreo is Black and White. Two of the Kittens have very long fur. My question isthe long hair a throw back from the father. My Brother knows for sure it wasnt from the Mom. I will try to get him to send me more Pics of the Dad so i can post them here.
post #11 of 27


These are my two. I don't know what is needed to produce calico kittens besides red black and white LOL. Genetics isn't my strong suit!
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
I will post here instead of starting a new thread. My Coco is half Siamese but she was the only one that was Black and White from her Litter. Her Mom was a Seal Point Siamese. we g.ot her at a Pet Store when she was a Kitten. She had Kittens once and Bred with a Orange and White Tabby which I guess you call Red. She had one all Black Kitten Midnight and 4 Calicos. Two were born dead and were Calico Males. The other two were Females. My Oreo that has Fcks is from a Calico and the father my Brother dosent know what is. Oreo is Black and White. Two of the Kittens have very long fur. My question isthe long hair a throw back from the father. My Brother knows for sure it wasnt from the Mom. I will try to get him to send me more Pics of the Dad so i can post them here.
I'm trying to understand your question

Are you saying the mother is short-haired, but she had two long-haired kittens and want to know where it came from?

Actually the long-hair is partly from the mom.

The long-hair gene is a recessive gene (l), if the mother is short-hair, she carries ONE short hair gene (L) and one recessive gene (l) Making her genetic make-up (Ll) in the fur-length department.

The father would also have to at least be a short-hair carrier (Ll) . The dad would pass on one (l) and the mom would pass one (l) gene, making the kitten homozygous for the long hair genes (ll)

Of course the father could still be long-hair (ll) in this case he would have no choice but to pass on the long-hair gene.

This is how Maine Coons or (insert long hair breed here) ONLY produce long-haired kittens.

Same with breeds that only produce gray (blue) cats... the dilute gene is also recessive.
post #13 of 27
The father of the Mother was a Orange and White Tabby I guess you call Red. He is the father of my Meeko who is the Sister of the Mom of my Oreo. Confusing I know. The Mom of Meeko and her Sister is a Russian Blue Siamese Mix and she never had a long haired Kitten ever. she is fixed now. The father has short fur too and a strange shaped face. I saved 3 Kittens from there before he had her fixed. Here are the Pics if this helps any. My Sasha My Oreo same father as my Sasha differant Mom. Meeko same Mom as Sasha.
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewch View Post


These are my two. I don't know what is needed to produce calico kittens besides red black and white LOL. Genetics isn't my strong suit!
I've never seen a bald calico! Hairless breeds have never been my thing, but I admit - she's very stunning!

Having a calico mom and a black father you can get calico kittens! The probability is 50/50 for calico girls or red boys... 50/50 for black girls and boys.

Does that make sense? For example: in a perfect statistical world, say your girl has 4 kittens. 2 of them would be black, say one male and one female and two would have red.... if one was a boy and one a girl, you would have one red male, and one tortie female. But if both are boys... then you will have no tortie girls. Of course... even though statistics say she has a 50% chance having a black, she could stump ya and throw all reds or torties! Ya never know

If you had a red male, then you could have red females, and they would no longer produce black females.

The ONLY way to get a tortie is if at least ONE of the parents has red. Red male, black female; black tom, red mom; black male, tortie mom; red male, tortie female.

With the different combos some will produce blacks and some wont. But I dont know if you want to get into that.

If you want to know more, fire away, like I said, I enjoy genetics. I dont breed, but I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame!

Feel free to PM me if you want.
post #15 of 27
The Orange Cat is the father of Meeko and Spaz Oreos Mom. http://groups.msn.com/PetsVille/nown...to&PhotoID=867
post #16 of 27
Shadow Mom of Meeko ,Sasha and Spaz who is my Oreos Mom.
post #17 of 27
Wow I love the Hairless. Now I need to add teh Calico on my list. Who knows what the Breeder will have. I already told her Blue.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
The father of the Mother was a Orange and White Tabby I guess you call Red. He is the father of my Meeko who is the Sister of the Mom of my Oreo. Confusing I know. The Mom of Meeko and her Sister is a Russian Blue Siamese Mix and she never had a long haired Kitten ever. she is fixed now. The father has short fur too and a strange shaped face. I saved 3 Kittens from there before he had her fixed. Here are the Pics if this helps any.
I'm really confused now, but a short-haired cat can be a long-hair carrier and NEVER throw a long-hair kitten if the father doesnt also carry the recessive gene, it would never show.

Also, remember it's all a probability, so just because she doesnt throw a long-hair doesnt mean she isnt a carrier, just that your luck wasnt with you. Although if you mated them time after time, you can begin to assume... but that's all it can be for sure - an assumption. If you were a breeder and you really wanted to know... your best bet would be to mate the short-haired cat with a long-haired cat. The long-haired cat can ONLY contribute a long-haired gene, the short hair has two options... one short hair gene, and one unknown gene (be it long or short)... if she is a carrier, you might guess that she would eventually lend her recessive gene if she carried it.

I might have gone into it too much... I know this is all virtual since they are now altered, but I tend to get carried away sometimes.
post #19 of 27
I think you're right, and a long haired ginger sounds about right.

They are gorgeous, I'll have the cream and the blue please

Which one are you hoping to take?
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
Wow I love the Hairless. Now I need to add teh Calico on my list. Who knows what the Breeder will have. I already told her Blue.
My kitties are Devon Rex cross with sphynx. Bob the black one, has more hair now than in that first picture, but Bonnie has stayed really quite nice and bald LOL besides on her mask. Don't forget, Sphynx all have hair, just like a fine down of it, and they are so soft and warm. The length of hair on Bonnie is like those Vellux blankets. Their personalities are what are really addicting, to me anyways, the cuteness is just an added bonus

post #21 of 27
She is pretty. And I think she does look like a vellux blanket! I would love to feel her!!!
post #22 of 27
I love your Cats.
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
That picture really cracks me up! The one with the skewch's 2 in bed together. It looks illicit.

Mews2much, perhaps it would be easier if you posted a family tree type of list for us! I'm a little confused by the multiple posts/descriptions)

Mom (in brackets, list parents) X Dad (in brackets, list parents)
(List kittens below)

If someone is unknown, just state "Unknown". It seems you have photos of most, so you could insert photos in there too!

Sorry, I can't be much help at the moment. My knowledge is still pretty limited. Perhaps if I come back a little later in the day (it's 7:30 right now, my brain usually starts functioning around 9), I will be more help!
post #24 of 27
Skech - In order to get a calico, you need a red and a black gene - one from each parent (and at least one parent has to be carrying white too).

So your calico could have:

Mom - calico herself, black or red (with or w/o white for both colors) and
Dad - Red or Black (with or w/o white).

As long as you pick up a red gene and a black gene you get a tortie/calico



As far as the OP - if you have red or cream females, then dad IS a red/cream and if they are males, then dad can be red or he can be black/blue.

Since you got one blue the dad is either a dilute carrier like mom is or he's blue or cream.

What's the sexes of the red/cream kittens?
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
What's the sexes of the red/cream kittens?
All the kittens in the litter were females. Dad must be a dilute carrier as well as mom.

Since there are no males and 3 red females, I think it's certain that dad is red. Makes perfect sense since mom's owner said there was a red male hanging around.

I have no problem with folks "hijacking the thread." My question has been answered, let's figure out some more daddies! (or possible kitties)
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoeysmom View Post
I have no problem with folks "hijacking the thread." My question has been answered, let's figure out some more daddies! (or possible kitties)


a woman after my own heart!
post #27 of 27
Yes, if the red/creams are female, then dad is a red. And only if mom was a LH carrier would they be longhairs, if dad was a red longhair.
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