your thoughts, please (war)

I watched the whole speech and, along with the military analysts, figure things will heat up, when the full moon wanes later this week.

Saddam will not go peacefully, nor do I think that he will be taken alive. He'll want to be perceived as a martyr. Hopefully, one of his own inner circle will take him out.

This should be quick, though. In 12 years, we've developed better weapons and intelligence. With any luck, Iraqi military commanders will realize the futility of attempting any sort of defense and surrender. Of course, there is the possibility of mutiny, too. The rank-and-file Iraqi army will not fight.

i agree with cindy.

i have a feeling it will be okay in the end. no idea why but i do.

but a lot of prayers are going out to everyone tonight - anne, please take care of yourself, your family and protect yourselves.
(((HUGS)))

Kelley,
I too worry about Anne! She is so close to all of this and I worry that she will be in harms way. My prayers are getting long winded each night...so many people to pray for! Anne and her family are in my prayers during this terrible time.
Anne...we all pray for your safety and for baby Ron & Isaac!!((((((((HUGS))))))))

Here's a little anecdote that hubby heard from some of his military friends. I can't personally attest to the validity, but if it's true....

A group of US soldiers were out on a routine patrol close to the Iraqi border. One of them saw a snake so he pulled out his service revolver and shot it a couple times. Next thing they know, a group of Iraqi soldiers stands up not 50 feet from them and surrenders. They thought the US soldiers were shooting at them.

A friend recently sent this to me and I thought it was interesting and wanted to share it with all of you. It has some good points.

Charlie Daniels took a lot of flack for this statement...

February 24, 2003

An Open Letter To The Hollywood Bunch

Ok let's just say for a moment you bunch of pampered, overpaid,
unrealistic children had your way and the U.S.A. didn't go into Iraq.

Let's say that you really get your way and we destroy all our nuclear
weapons and stick daisies in our gun barrels and sit around with
some white wine and cheese and pat ourselves on the back, so proud of what
we've done for world peace.

Let's say that we cut the military budget to just enough to keep the
National Guard on hand to help out with floods and fires.

Let's say that we close down our military bases all over the world
and bring the troops home, increase our foreign aid and drop all the trade
sanctions against everybody.

I suppose that in your fantasy world this would create a utopian
world where everybody would live in peace. After all, the great monster, the
United States of America, the cause of all the world's trouble would have
disbanded it's horrible military and certainly all the other countries of the
world would follow suit.

After all, they only arm themselves to defend their countries from
the mean old U.S.A.

Why you bunch of pitiful, hypocritical, idiotic, spoiled mugwumps.
Get your head out of the sand and smell the Trade Towers burning. Do you
think that a trip to Iraq by Sean Penn did anything but encourage a wanton
murderer to think that the people of the U.S.A. didn't have the nerve or the
guts to fight him?

Barbra Streisand's fanatical and hateful rantings about George Bush
makes about as much sense as Michael Jackson hanging a baby over a
railing.

You people need to get out of Hollywood once in a while and get out
into the real world. You'd be surprised at the hostility you would find out
here.

Stop in at a truck stop and tell an overworked, long distance truck
driver that you don't think Saddam Hussein is doing anything wrong.

Tell a farmer with a couple of sons in the military that you think
the United States has no right to defend itself.

Go down to Baxley, Georgia and hold an anti-war rally and see what
the folks down there think about you.

You people are some of the most disgusting examples of a waste of
protoplasm I've ever had the displeasure to hear about.

Sean Penn, you're a traitor to the United States of America. You
gave aid and comfort to the enemy. How many American lives will your little,
"fact finding trip" to Iraq cost? You encouraged Saddam to think that we
didn't have the stomach for war.

You people protect one of the most evil men on the face of this
earth and won't lift a finger to save the life of an unborn baby. Freedom of
choice you say?

Well I'm going to exercise some freedom of choice of my own. If I see any of
your names on a marquee, I'm going to boycott the movie. I will completely
stop going to movies if I have to. In most cases it certainly wouldn't be
much of a loss.

You scoff at our military who's boots you're not even worthy to
shine.

They go to battle and risk their lives so ingrates like you can
live in luxury.

The day of reckoning is coming when you will be faced with the
undeniable truth that the war against Saddam Hussein is the war on terrorism.

America is in imminent danger. You're either for her or against her.
There is no middle ground.

I think we all know where you stand.

What do you think?

God Bless America

Charlie Daniels

This is also interesting. As far as my opinion/thoughts on war - I agree with most of you. I do believe we must do something or the terrorists will continue their attacks at random on the United States if we sit back and do nothing. I wish it could all be resolved peacefully, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.


The following passage is from a sermon by John Hagee:

I want you to close your eyes and picture in your mind the soldier at Valley
Forge, as he holds his musket in his bloody hands. He stands barefoot in
the snow, starved from lack of food, wounded from months of battle and
emotionally scarred from the eternity away from his family surrounded by
nothing but death and carnage of war.

He stands though, with fire in his eyes and victory on his breath. He looks
at us now in anger and disgust and tells us this...

I gave you a birthright of freedom born in the Constitution and now your
children graduate too illiterate to read it.

I fought in the snow barefoot to give you the freedom to vote and you stay
at home because it rains.

I left my family destitute to give you the freedom of speech and you remain
silent on critical issues, because it might be bad for business.

I orphaned my children to give you a government to serve you and it has
stolen democracy from the people.

It's the soldier, not the reporter who gives you the freedom of the press.

It's the soldier, not the poet who gives you the freedom of speech.

It's the soldier, not the campus organizer who allows you to demonstrate.

It's the soldier who salutes the flag, serves the flag, whose coffin is
draped with the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag!!!

"Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect
us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us
in our time of need. I ask this in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
Amen."

The reason that the US lead but UN authorized forces in 1991 did not march to Baghdad was that it was not within the scope of what the UN originally approved, and George Bush decided not to go against them, despite the urging of his generals.

I think that Hussein needs to go for 2 reasons. He is hellbent on developing weapons that even if he cannot use, he'll be happy them to sell to someone else who will. There is also the question of the relief of his own people. Everyone seems to agree that he has brutalized the Iraqis, especially those not from his own 'tribe'. No amount of inspections is going to put an end to that.
Should he die in his sleep next week after brutalizing yet another young woman, one of his equally crazy sons will keep the same rule going.

One day last week, the UN Ambassador from Rwanda speaking in support of an effort to depose Hussein, said something about waiting and waiting for the UN to take action as 1,000,000 people were slaughtered in his country. It took President Clinton a great effort to get the UN to move on Milosevic in Serbia, despite the parallels between him and his charismatic call to ethnic nationalism in a way eerily familiar of you-know-who. So, the lack of will on the part of the UN, driven by countries who do business with Iraq, doesn't impress me. I'm especially not trusting them to keep my a## safe!

I hope and pray that the war effort goes as quickly as possible and that the Iraqis view the forces as liberators, not enemies. I do think alot about future terrorism in the US, because I live in NYC, right between the UN and one of those bridges Al Qaeda would like to bomb.

Oh, Jan, i wish i could add a line of a somewhat strong view, but i guess i am basically "Swiss"...

To fight or not to fight is the question?

If we fight, there will be people dying, if we don't fight, there will be people dying as well (being attacked.)

Personally, i will only defend, but not go out of the way to fight someone.

i choose to remain "Swiss"...

I hope it ends quickly and does not escalate into WWIII

Originally posted by Heidi

Here's a little anecdote that hubby heard from some of his military friends. I can't personally attest to the validity, but if it's true....

A group of US soldiers were out on a routine patrol close to the Iraqi border. One of them saw a snake so he pulled out his service revolver and shot it a couple times. Next thing they know, a group of Iraqi soldiers stands up not 50 feet from them and surrenders. They thought the US soldiers were shooting at them.

Click to expand...

I know someone who was part of the ground troops during Desert Storm. This person told us a very similiar story when he came back to the U.S.

He and the rest of his troops were moving military equipment across the desert to a new location and displaying the U.S. flag. Suddenly a group of Iraqi soldiers came from out of nowhere in the middle of the desert and started surrendering to them. They took the soldiers captive but didn't understand why they surrendered so easily. When they arrived at the new location they asked about it and were told that displaying the flag was a sign of extreme power in that part of the world.

Doesn't ANYONE read and learn, from history?

After WWI, the League of Nations imposed sanctions and ordered the disarmament of Germany. Inspectors were dispatched, to insure this. Hitler managed to rearm, build an illegal 100,000-man army and submarines, right under the noses, of the inspectors! The inspection process and the League of Nations fell apart, in 1934. So much for sanctions and inspections.

Neville Chamberlain returned from Germany, waving a piece of paper and promised "peace in our time". Hitler promptly rolled into Poland, France, Belgium and Czechoslovakia. Six million Jews and untold numbers of Gypsies, homosexuals and other "undesirables" were herded into slave labor and death camps. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen died to liberate Europe, from this insane dictator. All of this could have been avoided, if Hitler had been neutralized, in 1934.

Once again, the world is faced with a megalomaniac, bent on world domination, with weapons that Hitler never even dreamed of. Some of the very countries, which the United States fought long and hard, to liberate now want to appease another dictator. Have they learned NOTHING, from their own history?

What is it going to take? A Scud missile, hitting the Eiffel Tower or a cloud of nerve gas, in the Paris Metro?

I'm getting emotional, here - my dad slogged through mud and blood and saw his buddies killed, in the Pacific, so that I could have a safe place to live and be able to sit at this computer and express my opinions, FREELY without fear of government reprisals. My late husband, Russ, was Jewish. Eleven members of his family went into Dachau and they didn't come out. This must not happen again!

I'm sorry kat, but I feel, dispite anyones efforts, time and time again, that this world will never really be a safe place.
Your father reminds me of those people who once believed it could be, specially since you said that's what he faught for, but then 9/11 happens and wakes the rest of the nation up who haven't come to the realization that no, no place is safe, not even America.

No Angel, it won't ever be a safe place. Does that mean we should sit back and let the future Hitlers of the world take over? I'm not a fatalist. I think this world can be a better place than it is now, but in order to achieve that we have to constantly remain vigilant and put down the threats as they come up. There will always be those who want more than their share of the power, those who want to rule the world with an iron fist. Do we let them get to the same point that the League of Nations let Hitler or do we squash them before it gets to that point? Like Cindy said, we have to learn from history, and obviously the UN and especially France (Of all people!!!) refuse to even acknowledge the mistakes of the past.