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Olympic Torch having problems

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Staying Lit.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...311970,00.html
post #2 of 28
They should just give up already and cancel the Olympics this year because it's no longer about the sports, it's become a political venue and IMHO has become tainted because of it.
post #3 of 28
There's probably not enough oxygen in the air due to pollution.
Just kidding.
(I guess it's not in China yet.)

But seriously...
I don't blame people for protesting.
I think that the games should not be in China.
post #4 of 28
I was proud of my city for protesting, I hadn't realised the torch was coming through on Sunday or I might have joined in. 35 people were arrested.

The whole olympic torch parade was started by Hitler to demonstrate his power anyway, which makes the whole 'sports not politics' rhetoric highly ironic.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200..._oly1symb.html
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Good link Cata, I didn't know that.
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I was proud of my city for protesting, I hadn't realised the torch was coming through on Sunday or I might have joined in. 35 people were arrested.

The whole olympic torch parade was started by Hitler to demonstrate his power anyway, which makes the whole 'sports not politics' rhetoric highly ironic.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200..._oly1symb.html
Yes, I've read that the reason this year's torch procession is the longest in Olympic history is because it is intended to highlight China's rising economic and political power ... and yet Beijing says that the Olympics are about sports and world peace
post #7 of 28
I'll never forget the day I found out Zissou had been eating poisonous food (the day of the recall). And I will never not blame the Chinese government for it.

It makes me sick to think of all the legitimizing we do of them... China regularly murders and tortures the Chinese people, controls everything they do. The situation in Tibet should be completely intolerable, but we're all kind of helpless. Without China our economy would collapse (and vice versa, but it doesn't give us much power).

The leader of Tibet is exiled, the panchen lama is still in Chinese prison, and they've attempted to install someone without following a single tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. We all know about the atrocity. I can't imagine why on earth anybody thought it would be a good idea to have the Olympics there.

I, for one, certainly won't be watching. More importantly, I won't be supporting any of their sponsors either.
post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
Yes, I've read that the reason this year's torch procession is the longest in Olympic history is because it is intended to highlight China's rising economic and political power ... and yet Beijing says that the Olympics are about sports and world peace
China's rising economy at the expense of ours. They rake in 30-40% in taxes on goods we export to China for sale while we have a tariff of only 2-3% on Chinese goods being exported for sale to the US. Is it any wonder why we are losing so many jobs overseas to China? We're getting the short end of the stick and nobody in Washington seems to give a damn.
post #9 of 28
The US and EU in fact prevented the Chinese government allowing workers to form trade unions, which the workers had been striking/protesting over. But that would have meant higher wages and better working conditions, which would mean higher prices on their exports and lower profit margins for US/EU big business companies.
So we're not just allowing the injustices to continue, we're practically encouraging it.
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
The US and EU in fact prevented the Chinese government allowing workers to form trade unions, which the workers had been striking/protesting over. But that would have meant higher wages and better working conditions, which would mean higher prices on their exports and lower profit margins for US/EU big business companies.
So we're not just allowing the injustices to continue, we're practically encouraging it.
Greed makes the world go around.
post #11 of 28
I don't know what the Chinese expected. A warm welcome? Yeah right.

They run the torch through Paris - not that France isn't up for protesting just about anything. And San Francisco - not that they aren't proud of their protest history too. Both of these places are in the news today about the flame and protests, which is why I mention them. Both of these places are notoriously liberal, and it's not exactly a secret that a tenent of liberalism is human rights. To say that China has a weak human rights record is a weak statement, and that's coming from a conservative.

China has the ego of Hitler to actually think that a world-tour of the torch to display how great they are becoming as a world power would be greeted warmly.
post #12 of 28
I just thought- despite all these protests no one in power across the world has spoken out against China, or openly supported Tibet. The people of China have no idea, and will never know how the Olympic torch is being received across the world. Its just demonstrating that China can parade the torch all over the democratic world, say whatever lies it likes to its people, and do whatever it wants to Tibet and no one with any real power will do anything to stop it.
post #13 of 28
In addition to Tibet and other well-known issues, there's also China's treatment of North Korean refugees: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/seoultrain/film.html

I feel sad for all of the athletes and others whose hopes & dreams are tied to the Olympics, but I really wonder what the Olympic committee was thinking when they decided to have the Olympics in a country known for its human rights abuses?
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I just thought- despite all these protests no one in power across the world has spoken out against China, or openly supported Tibet. The people of China have no idea, and will never know how the Olympic torch is being received across the world. Its just demonstrating that China can parade the torch all over the democratic world, say whatever lies it likes to its people, and do whatever it wants to Tibet and no one with any real power will do anything to stop it.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/
They do know. If you look at the front page of Xinhua, it's the major headline (right now at least, that link is just to the main page). If you notice, the two articles to the side are about how historical records prove that Tibet is rightfully China's territory and claims that this is indisputable. And another article about how everyone involved is condemning the actions of the few rogue protesters.

They've a professional spin machine, just like all fascist regimes. The people would find out (they have friends, relatives, etc outside the country of course) and it's better for the govt to control the manner in which the people hear about it and include some lies, heavy editing, etc, than it is to deny it wholesale.

They use "Tibetan separatists" the same way the US would have during the civil war or England would have / does with certain Irish groups.
post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
Its just demonstrating that China can parade the torch all over the democratic world, say whatever lies it likes to its people, and do whatever it wants to Tibet and no one with any real power will do anything to stop it.
That is such a sad thought!! I hope that somehow, somewhere, there are those brave people who will somehow get the word to at least some of them; just like the Christians have to sneak the Word to them.
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedokitties View Post
I feel sad for all of the athletes and others whose hopes & dreams are tied to the Olympics, but I really wonder what the Olympic committee was thinking when they decided to have the Olympics in a country known for its human rights abuses?
I'm wondering that too...if its anything other than money
post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
My pastor went to China last year. He said thousands of Christians are meeting in secret in private homes all over China with more people coming to Christ every day. The truth gets into China, I have no doubt of that.
post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5


Wow, soooo China thinks they OWN the torch and they are sending their goons along to protect it? Superceding the country the torch is in own security.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5


Wow, soooo China thinks they OWN the torch and they are sending their goons along to protect it? Superceding the country the torch is in own security.
Staying true to the traditions of Hitler, eh
Good news - the IOC is meeting to consider whether the torch relay should continue and the White House is not ruling out the possibilty of our President foregoing attending the opening ceremonies!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080408...oIZgFvh1EXIr0F
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Did you read at the end of the article that China says, the torch relay will go on. Like they are the ones to make the decision.
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
My pastor went to China last year. He said thousands of Christians are meeting in secret in private homes all over China with more people coming to Christ every day. The truth gets into China, I have no doubt of that.
The Chinese also make it very difficult for Buddhists, Taoists, and Confucians to follow their traditions and rituals. The have a few "show temples" but the common people find it difficult to follow their traditions.
post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
post #23 of 28
I have to say I am not a fan of the protests. Personally I would like to keep the Olympics politic free but I do suppose that is a pipe dream.

Plus I don't think that having China loose face by humiliating them about the Olympic torch is going to accomplish anything. There is a striking picture in the Washington Post print edition of a protestor screaming in the face of a Chinese woman who came to cheer her home country. Wasn't the protestors shining moment.
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
I have to say I am not a fan of the protests. Personally I would like to keep the Olympics politic free but I do suppose that is a pipe dream.

Plus I don't think that having China loose face by humiliating them about the Olympic torch is going to accomplish anything. There is a striking picture in the Washington Post print edition of a protestor screaming in the face of a Chinese woman who came to cheer her home country. Wasn't the protestors shining moment.
And the past century hasn't been a shining moment for China. Really, they deserve 0% international support, and the Olympics is not politic free and never has been.

They are going to get billions of dollars from hosting the Olympics, when they deserve to be fully sanctioned, not rewarded, for massacring and oppressing their own people and doing even worse to the people of Tibet.

I wouldn't be sad to see all the countries withdraw from the Olympics this year. Some already have, and good for them.

The people of China who know what their country is doing, as anyone in America does, should be ashamed, not proud, of their country.
post #25 of 28
Thread Starter 
I agree with Z, totally on this one.
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I agree with Z, totally on this one.
And then some.
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I wouldn't be sad to see all the countries withdraw from the Olympics this year. Some already have, and good for them.

The people of China who know what their country is doing, as anyone in America does, should be ashamed, not proud, of their country.
I just don't agree with lumping all the people of China that way. I don't like some of the thing my country has done but getting in my face and shouting at me would not endear anyone to me. I have been against some of our policies and have spoken out against them but that hasn't changed them. That does not mean I will ever be ashamed to be an American. I refuse to be so cynical as to blame everyone in China. It is one thing to know and another to actually have change come about.

Do I agree with alot of what the government and some of the citizens of China have done. Absolutely not. Some of it is absolutely abhorrent to me. I am not against protesting against China although grabbing the flame is a little much for me. I don't believe in the boycott. I want China to change but not by humiliating them. I want the current government out not give them ammunition in the propoganda that the West hates them.

Maybe there just shouldn't be Olympic games because there is not a country in the world that hasn't offended another country. If it was held here in America there would probably be talks of boycotts due to our involvement in Iraq. Where does it stop? I am not an idealist but maybe I just have outrage fatigue. I just want to watch the Olympics maybe see some fantastic feats of agility and strength. Do I wish it was somewhere else but China, yes but it will be there.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
I just don't agree with lumping all the people of China that way. I don't like some of the thing my country has done but getting in my face and shouting at me would not endear anyone to me. I have been against some of our policies and have spoken out against them but that hasn't changed them. That does not mean I will ever be ashamed to be an American. I refuse to be so cynical as to blame everyone in China. It is one thing to know and another to actually have change come about.
I didn't lump the people that way-- I said "China" not "the Chinese". And that the people who have gotten out and managed to get to America should definitely know what their government has done and is still doing, and should not be proud of it. It is different in America, we get to have a say and to a large extent though not as much as is meant to be, we own our government and control some of what it does. We have to be proud of it, or we'd collapse.

That's exactly what needs to happen in China. When people realize all the lies they've been told, and stop buying into the myth they've been sold, then the government will stop being in total control. That's exactly what needs to happen.

IMO, holding the Olympics in Beijing is not benefitting the poor, uneducated farmers or the crowded-in sweatshop workers... they will never see any of that money. It is benefitting the people who keep China the freedomless place that it is, and those are the very people who do not need to benefit from anything they do.

Tibet is just the worst example of what China has done to its people, a lot of people in China proper don't fare much better.

For that protester, it isn't a matter of getting the woman to like her(?) it is a matter of getting her to think about what her country has done and how it isn't something to be proud of. There's a lot of brainwashing has gone into her life, and patting it over and saying "It's okay, it wasn't your fault, you didn't know" isn't going to help anyone.

Even if the Chinese woman hates that protester the rest of her life, if she stops for just a second and realizes what people are angry about, she's done her job. Protesting and demonstrations aren't about getting people to like you, and in some instances are aimed to make people sick of you. They're about making things other people are trying to sweep under the rug and forget about into a public issue that people talk and think about.

http://www.tibet.com/

The Chinese government is murdering the people of Tibet RIGHT NOW, still, in the past month. I have a hard time understanding how anyone is anything but outraged by this.
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