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3rd Graders Plot to Kill Teacher

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344369,00.html

All I can say is

I'm really shocked, especially since these were special ed students! Please tell me this is a horrible April Food's joke by all the presses.
post #2 of 23
good grief, batgirl2good works in Georgia! i know she teaches what she calls 'at risk', & these are the right age...
Bobbie - you okay?

post #3 of 23
I'm not at all surprised.

Ever since it became against the law to spank your kids, society has churned out a whole bunch of juvenile deliquents.

I saw on the news not long ago that a child of 10 or 12 was charge with rape! The other day there was a triple homacide in my city. One of the arrested suspects was a kid of 14 years old!

So far as I'm concerned if a kid can plot to do the crime, they can do the time and should be tried as an adult and receive the same sentences as an adult. Kids know the difference between right and wrong. So there is no excuse for "ignorance".
post #4 of 23
I'm not surprised at all. Some kids just won't accept discipline and what's worse, many of their parents think their child can do no wrong! I had one student tell me if I write him up his mom would come and "go off" on me. This student has no respect for the teachers and truly thinks he can get away with anything. It's sickening.
post #5 of 23
Creepy little kids. Can we say Children of the Corn?
post #6 of 23
Quote:
I'm really shocked, especially since these were special ed students!
Ya know the media will use any and every chance that comes their way to spread more ignorance and stigma about people who have neurobiological conditions such as ADD - now a bunch of people are going to think all hyperactive ADD children go around plotting to kill teachers. . .

The fact that these kids hatched a plan makes me question the possibility of them have ADD. .. more than likely there was some comorbidity involved like ODD or conduct disorder.





Quote:
Please tell me this is a horrible April Food's joke by all the presses
when it comes to the press every day is April Fools day - grr
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
I'm not at all surprised.

Ever since it became against the law to spank your kids, society has churned out a whole bunch of juvenile deliquents.
I don't think it's just that - although yes, society has changed a lot over the years. But society does change - people from before my parents' generation probably thought my parents were all juvenile delinquents, too.

What has changed is that we are in the age of information - and so things that have probably always been happening and always will be happening are now so readily accessible to us through various media - especially the internet - that we think that there has been a `rise' in such behaviours.

I have been thinking for a long time that the world has just been getting worse and worse - but now I don't actually think that's true. I just think we hear about a LOT more bad stuff and so it skews our perceptions - or perhaps it just exposes us to much more reality than we've ever been used to in the past.

On the whole, despite all the problems the world faces, I think humans are actually becoming far more morally aware and responsible than we ever have been in the past. But there is always going to be a percentage that do horrific things - it's a small percentage, but any percentage of six billion people is still going to be a significant number. If we didn't have the means of hearing about everything as it happens, we'd all continue in the same kind of ignorant bliss we operated in before, and be none the wiser.
post #8 of 23
If they can think of doing something like that at such a young age, then God help people when their older
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten_Smitten View Post
The fact that these kids hatched a plan makes me question the possibility of them have ADD. .. more than likely there was some comorbidity involved like ODD or conduct disorder.
Thanks, I was racking my head all night last night trying to think of what area of "special ed" they were considered, since the article did not mention this.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
If they can think of doing something like that at such a young age, then God help people when their older
How terrifying that such young people are already so tainted.
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I have been thinking for a long time that the world has just been getting worse and worse - but now I don't actually think that's true. I just think we hear about a LOT more bad stuff and so it skews our perceptions - or perhaps it just exposes us to much more reality than we've ever been used to in the past.
i think it's a combination of both of those...
& i can see as a teacher that children in general have become more unruly & more disinclined to obey the school's rules... & many times the parent[s] of that type of child refuse to believe that their child has ANY problem behaviors, or even any cognitive difficulties that could lead to problem behaviors. often the child will tell you, flat out, that his/her parent will believe him/her over the educator
often, [in Texas] children w/severe ADD can be admitted to the special education program under an OHI [other health impaired] label. most times, [not always!] these are children whose parents are anti-medication.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten_Smitten View Post

The fact that these kids hatched a plan makes me question the possibility of them have ADD. .. more than likely there was some comorbidity involved like ODD or conduct disorder.
I agree. All the ADD kids I have met can't sit still enough to plan anything. I'm thinking they have learning disabilities more then anything.
post #13 of 23
There's a lot of things that bothered me about this story. First, that a child that young would want "revenge" for something as trivial as being scolded for something as clearly against the rules as standing on a chair in the classroom. Where does a child in 3rd grade get that attitude from? Second, that she could get a group of 3-4 together to plot such a vicious attack. Third, that they could get a larger group of kids to carry out various parts of the attack. Fourth, that they would actually seriously bring all the stuff to school to actually do it – duct tape, a heavy glass paper weight (to knock her out), ribbon (the only part that reminds you that these are 3rd graders!), and a broken steak knife to stab her with.

Yes, there were always brats, but I sure don’t remember anything about school shootings in high school, let alone kids this young plotting to hurt or kill their teacher. Doesn’t matter if these are “special ed” or not. It just plain blew me away to think that kids that young are having such a violent reaction to a perceived slight. But the first thing I thought of was “where did she learn this reaction from?” I will give kids a lot more credit than a lot of people, but still at 8-9 years old they are mainly recreating reactions they have experienced in one way or another.
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
But the first thing I thought of was “where did she learn this reaction from?†I will give kids a lot more credit than a lot of people, but still at 8-9 years old they are mainly recreating reactions they have experienced in one way or another.
the year i taught 2nd grade, one of my boys told one of my girls that he wanted to have relations [didn't use that word!] w/her in the bathtub i was floored! i know he heard that at home somewhere - probably an older sibling.
post #15 of 23
If they were bad ADD I can see how this may have occurred. Special Ed kids can have various problems, like abuse cases, blind, deaf, mute, ADD, Tourettes, and so on. Sometimes there disability can effect how they act or think.

I know someone with bad ADD and even as a young kid of 5, he couldnt control his anger and would do things not normal for any kid to do, but he was born like that, and if he wasnt on medication this bad behavior would come out. That is why for the rest of his life he must live medicated. And even at 5 he would try to hurt his parents with a sharp object because they grounded him, but its only because of his disability he acted so hostile.

Its NOT his fault though, his perception of right & wrong is not 100%, so he doesnt understand why stuff he did was wrong, thats how he was born, and even with good parents he will never be fully "normal". He can live life, but things are more difficult for him and take longer than a person without a disability.

At that young of an age (3rd grade) they are really just kids, not even 10. They hardly even have a grasp at what life is like. Heck in 3rd grade kids liked Barney and had imaginary friends, how can you say they really know what they were doing? At that age a Teacher scolding me got me mad too, when your a kid stuff like that can be really tough on you.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post
i think it's a combination of both of those...
& i can see as a teacher that children in general have become more unruly & more disinclined to obey the school's rules... & many times the parent[s] of that type of child refuse to believe that their child has ANY problem behaviors, or even any cognitive difficulties that could lead to problem behaviors. often the child will tell you, flat out, that his/her parent will believe him/her over the educator
often, [in Texas] children w/severe ADD can be admitted to the special education program under an OHI [other health impaired] label. most times, [not always!] these are children whose parents are anti-medication.
I'm glad you wrote that because I meant to include something along those lines in my post. Yes - the information age has changed what we see and hear, but I do also agree that kids are not given the opportunity to be kids anymore - they are experimenting with things WAY too young, there is generally a lot less discipline in the home (busy parents? Higher cost of living? Who knows?) and kids have a far greater `sense of entitlement' these days than I remember from when I was a kid or even from kids younger than me at school.

We used to have to ask permission to do things, we had curfews and boundaries, if we were rude we were punished, we had manners, we had discipline - these things seem to be disappearing from the upbringing of many children. Such a low frustration tolerance and lack of impulse control in kids nowadays - they want what they want and they want it NOW and if they don't get it they can behave how they want and nobody can discipline them because it impinges on their `rights'. Sigh.

I remember when adults were adults and children were children and the authority worked that way - not the other way around!
post #17 of 23
When my son was in school they still had corporal punishment and if you did something bad you got swats with the paddle.

Kids now have no repurcussions when they they do something wrong, someone always has some kind of excuse for them so how can we expect anything different?
post #18 of 23
Not just in this case, but most all the time now, Cindy.
post #19 of 23
When my son was in school they still had corporal punishment and if you did something bad you got swats with the paddle.


Here's my opinion about that and it would be great if everyone read this.

I dont know about other people opinions or how they were raised, but if every time someone did something bad and got hit (like in school), your just showing hitting is the answer to everything.

I was spanked gently when I was young if i talked back or didnt listen after a certain amount of time, alot of kids were. And you know what, from that early of an age I actually would fight them just so they couldnt touch me and spank me. I wasnt abused, it's just that I didnt like it and felt hitting them back would make them stop, because I looked up to my parents, and if they hit me, I thought it was ok to hit back if someone touched me or talked back.

Hitting didnt work for me, I got in trouble in Kindergarden, yes, that early of an age, for punching a kid off the monkey bars because it was my turn and he went in front and didnt listen to the rules about taking turns. I tried to tell the Teacher, but I guess she never heard me, so I felt I had to take matters into my own hands. I was expelled for 2 days, and the Teacher actually talked to my Parents saying whatever they did to teach me hitting was ok, they need to fix it. They never spanked me again after that, for punishment I was grounded.

Grounding a kid by taking away something they like alot, (like tv) has WAY more of an effect on them, because they think they need it so it hurts them more than hitting. It worked on me very well and I quickly learned what is right and wrong.

My Dad even said back in his days when you were hit in school, the fights were much worse back then and more severe between kids then nowadays. It didnt help at all, as a matter of fact it made things much worse. He remembers kids taking rulers after school,and beating other kids with them, why, because the Teacher did it.

Kids are very impressionable, they observe EVERYTHING. Show them hitting is ok, (and not even by there Parents but someone outside of there house), and soon they will get the idea that hitting solves everything.
post #20 of 23
That is fine, that is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Personally I feel that kids hitting each other with rulers isn't quite as bad as kid's shooting each other with guns. Kids fight, such is life but they shouldn't have to be killing each other.

What works for one child doesn't work for the next.

I beg to differ with your father, I think school's are much worse now. Teachers have little to no control over students. Such is why they have to have the Zero Tolerence. Give me the old days back.
post #21 of 23
I disagree entirely with corporal punishment as a first response to misbehaviour. And I disagree entirely with it in schools period. That is up to the parents, not the educators. However sometimes when nothing else - and I mean nothing else - works, a slap on the hand or the bottom can do what nothing else can.

As long as you are not hitting in anger, as an emotional knee-jerk response to a frustrating situation, I believe corporal punishment has its place in discipline. A small place, and one that should be carefully applied, but a place nonetheless.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
know someone with bad ADD and even as a young kid of 5, he couldn't control his anger and would do things not normal for any kid to do, but he was born like that, and if he wasnt on medication this bad behavior would come out.
I know you are speaking from the experience of ONE child who is apparently been diagnosed with ADD however impulsive actions are not a problem for all types of ADD children.

There are three ADD sub-types

Primarily Hyperactive / impulsive

Primarily inattentive

Combined

Combined being the most common accounting for apx 60% of the ADD population.

Many will describe ADD as problems with inhibitions but this would fail to include the experiences of those with primarily inattentive ADD which my actual to to inhibited

ADD is:

The inability to consciously control the direction of focus and length of attention span - it is a problem with stimuli filtering valves - difficulties with selective attention.

Before passing this horrible behavior over to this child's being primarily hyperactive / impulsive please remember ADD comes attached to a person with a personal temperament. Being hyperactive doesn't automatically mean having a bad temper - there are those who are pleasantly busy and not prone to bad behavior or fit throwing even if unmedicated.


Positive Aspects of ADHD and ADD


Quote:
even with good parents he will never be fully "normal".
Will he be like "every one else" well no and there should be no expectations for him to be so but there is no reason he can not live as he is designed to. ADD is a contextual disorder.

The child you describe has a temperament that leads to the possibility of comorbid {secondary} conditions as ADD doest like to travel alone.


Quote:
He can live life, but things are more difficult for him and take longer than a person without a disability.
Especially if the morons in the media keep spreading misinformation, encouraging stigmas and propagating stereotype.
post #23 of 23
For kitten_smitten, the child I was referring to I think has other problems on top of his ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) , which technically is called ADHD for him (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), the 2 are different. I dont know what the other medical problems are, but no he doesnt just have ADHD. He was in a special education school his whole life, the regular schools couldnt handle his behavior, and he fell so far behind on his grades because his concentration was so poor, so he was put in a special school, which worked out great for him.

I was using him as an example of how a child with a disability may not act like a child who is "normal" so to speak. In his case he can get violent very quickly with little provoction. I dont know how to explain it better what I meant to say, but this whole case with the 3rd graders should be looked at a little differently if the children may have a disability which also may impair there judgement or behavior.

Especially if the morons in the media keep spreading misinformation, encouraging stigmas and propagating stereotype.

I'd like to reply to that, because not only do I know someone with ADHD and someone with severe Autism, I myself have ADHD and have also been in special classes and on medication, i've met all types of people with all types of disabilities, sometimes even I was afraid of some of them growing up, when they got angry, you best get out of there way! We were all sort of the outcasts just because we had a disability, so we kind of stuck together and found it hard to make friends. I know all about steriotypes believe me!

But being I have experience with this sort of disability, I do think that IF these children had ADD, it played some part in there behavior and why they sought out for revenge so far. Plus, if they did have parents who were anti-medication, that could explain why there behavior got so out of control.

And also, the person I know with ADHD is a relative of mine, him and I both are in our 20's and the same age. I graduated High School and went to College, he also graduated High School but a few years later than me. He is not allowed to get his license, so he rides his bike to work each day. He repairs computers, and although he had trouble sitting down and learning, he had been able to fix radios,tv's, and video games since he was no older than 10 and without any help! So that is pretty cool and goes to show that even with a disability, you can have a great gift! Me I study alot on animals and know all sorts of stuff, plus I like to make my own movies for fun.
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