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post #121 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf
The above article does a great job of compiling and analyzing statistics. Pitties & rottweilers are VERY disproportinately present in the number of attacks involving death and serious maiming of humans. Also, two unusual traits of pit bull attacks are that they are just as likely to attack an adult as a child and they attack without warning.
I guess this explains why we should expect to see more reports of Pit Bull attacks in the media than attacks of other breeds. They don't have to be super dogs to do tremendous damage.
post #122 of 138
I'll say this again as I always say. it's the OWNER not the dog. the owner failed her dog. any dogs can attack. I think pit bulls are the biggest, goofiest, clowns of the canine world. you HAVE to be responsible with them and don't set them up for failure. just like with any dog. I hope to have a pit bull someday, rescued of course and I would never set up mine or any of my dogs for failure. we see pit bull attacks in the news because of the "hype" that they always attack and I am sick of people saying that only pit bulls attack!!! the most ferocious dog I have ever met was a chihuahua. people need to educate themselves on the breed and quit believing all the bad crap people say about them that is untrue.

all the pit bulls I have met have been total sweethearts. they are by far my favorite breed, but they aren't for everyone and you must be responsible with them and educate yourself on the breed!!


here's some good, positive websites about them :

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.php


http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.php



http://www.defend-a-bull.com/positivelypit.html
post #123 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf
The above article does a great job of compiling and analyzing statistics. Pitties & rottweilers are VERY disproportinately present in the number of attacks involving death and serious maiming of humans.
Let me give a little background before I give my opinion here. A large portion of my bachelor's has been related to research and so I think at this point, I can say, I do not think that this is a good source. Now, if there is more info related to this article, great, then maybe I would change my mind. Number 1, the article states that it gathered info from "press accounts from 1982". I think all of know that that is not going to be an unbiased or necessarily accurate source. Yes, they did an excellent job compiling the evidence, but I tend not to believe the evidence unless I know where it came from. Number 2, according to this evidence there were only about 2200 dog bites reported in the press accounts since 1982. I think thats probably a little low. That would be about 24 years.

I had a rottie/pitt cross and he was the nicest dog that I have ever had. He was really dumb but the sweetest dog I have ever seen. I have known Pitt's that I would not trust, but I have known other dog breeds that I would not trust. We had a Border Collie that would bite with no warning and was just MEAN! She had been abused and then brought back to us after a year, but the damage had been done. She was one of my dog's puppies (only litter and purebred) and the rest of her siblings were fine. She was the only one that turned out like that and I think that I can safely say that that was how she was raised. She was with us for the first 12 weeks of her ife and then destroyed by these people in a year.
post #124 of 138
You can read some good information about dog bite statistics here, including an analysis of the biased Merritt Clifton report which someone posted a link to in this thread:

Dog Bite Statistics: Science or Junk Science?
post #125 of 138
Just a quick observation: I noticed several pittie owners mentioned that their dog knows his/her place. I don't remember anyone ever saying that about their cat.

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.
post #126 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Just a quick observation: I noticed several pittie owners mentioned that their dog knows his/her place. I don't remember anyone ever saying that about their cat.

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.
True, but my cats surely seem to! It's just happens to be the exalted ones that they are entitled too!
post #127 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
You can read some good information about dog bite statistics here, including an analysis of the biased Merritt Clifton report which someone posted a link to in this thread:

Dog Bite Statistics: Science or Junk Science?
That is Karen Delise's web site. As the author of 2 dog advocacy books, one Pit Bull specific, she would have to be considered biased herself.

In the absence of exhaustively and meticulously collected statistics on every single dog bite that occurs, I guess someone will be able to find fault with any study.

Personally, I find no fault with Clifton's research methods. But I understand that others who don't trust media reporting will.
post #128 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekochan View Post
You can read some good information about dog bite statistics here, including an analysis of the biased Merritt Clifton report which someone posted a link to in this thread:

Dog Bite Statistics: Science or Junk Science?
Speaking of biased, I read the link to the article from the NCRA and then followed up with the CDC article that it debunks. The NCRA did accurately quote that the CDC admits that news media accounts can inaccurately report the breeds of dogs involved in DRBF. Period. Which is lying by omission because in consideration of that, the CDC then relied ONLY on HSUS reports which also merged data from the NEXIS database and death-certificate data to establish breed reports.
It is interesting to note that only 36% of the fatal attacks were conducted by 1 dog and all of those occurred on the owner's property. All off-property fatal attacks involved more than one dog. Yes, the owner responsibilty is the biggie in the situation .
Having said that, I think that anyone who wants to own a dog with known traits and abilities to be a threat to the public needs to show that they have the education and the ability plus the willingness to own the dog(s) responsibly. The mutilated children, our murdered-by-dog elders, the shredded cats and dogs who are also victims cry out from beyond the grave that we, the living, learn from their horrific experiences and protect the rest of the living.
post #129 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
Having said that, I think that anyone who wants to own a dog with known traits and abilities to be a threat to the public needs to show that they have the education and the ability plus the willingness to own the dog(s) responsibly.
I could not agree with you more! I wish there were 'Pit Bull & Bully Breed Ownership Classes'.

I'd also like to point something out. The Humane Society here is county impound for strays. This is a picture of a stray dog brought in. Before we ever even saw the dog the cop said he was bringing in a Pit Bull/Lab x.



That is a dog.....tell me where is there Pit in her? IMO, she looks like a stocky lab/pointer x to me. She has big ears similar to my german shorthaired pointer x (the ears do not show up well in the pics). She doesn't have a thick/long Lab coat, but she also doesn't have a Pit coat. Her coat is halfway in between, but water resistant like the Lab coat.

Excuse her coloration, prior to picture time she was having a hayday rolling in the mud holes with another Labbie.
post #130 of 138
Natalie, she's a doll! But you're right - there's not much if any pit in her. The build, coat, ears...all wrong for a pit.

Even if we do take the dogbitlaw statistics as being accurate, where are all the reports of the rottie attacks? I can't remember the last time I saw one.
post #131 of 138
Quote:
Yes, the owner responsibilty is the biggie in the situation .
Having said that, I think that anyone who wants to own a dog with known traits and abilities to be a threat to the public needs to show that they have the education and the ability plus the willingness to own the dog(s) responsibly. The mutilated children, our murdered-by-dog elders, the shredded cats and dogs who are also victims cry out from beyond the grave that we, the living, learn from their horrific experiences and protect the rest of the living.
Bold and underlining added by me.

Nice - very nice but I think this speech is missing a little some thing - if you really want truth - look at these and tell me exactly who is a hazard to whom \\

sensitive person warning


I think there may be a few more victims crying beyond the grave than this speech has considered . . . I can say no more because it really bothers me when WE blame a breed of DOG for our own doing . . .


There is only one answer - end cruelty to ALL animals . . . pit bulls are people to . .. they aren't some horrendous dangerous creature humans are.
post #132 of 138
Thread Starter 
I don't doubt there are people who believe that every single Pit Bull is a creature to be feared. Because of this it is a good idea to educate those people that there are plenty of it Bulls with docile and sweet natures.

However, the good feelings evoked by a thousand pictures of Pit Bulls cuddling with children is going to be wiped out by a single report of a child maimed or killed by a Pit Bull even with people who realize not all Pit Bulls are capable of such attacks.

You can argue all you want that Pit Bulls are not involved in serious attacks any more often that other breeds. The fact is there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. Just insisting that this evidence is not to be trusted is not going to do a thing to placate public outrage at an attack. "It's not the dogs fault" isn't going to help much either. Saying that it is people who have neglected, mistreated or otherwise badly used the dog will just support their belief that there is a breed specific problem because, after all, there is no reason to believe that people aren't equally abusive with dogs of other breeds and yet it is the Pit Bulls that are involved in attacks.

My personal belief is that Pit Bulls are more likely to attack and cause serious injury than other breeds even when only considering those that have not been trained to attack. However, that is "more likely" not "likely". In other words, even though Pits may be involved in attacks in a proportionally higher number than other breeds, the proportion of Pit Bull attacks to the total number of Pit Bulls is small enough that there is no reason to target the Pit Bull breed with any kind of remedial action. I feel confident in saying that despite not even knowing the size of the Pit Bull population.

The frequency in which Pit Bulls are involved in attacks is bound to give the general public a bad impression of them. I believe the way to fight that bad impression is not to deny that the attacks occur but to emphasis the rarity of the attacks. Everyday life is full of danger and risk. Emphasizing that the risk of a Pit Bull attack is relatively low and supporting steps to get that risk lower still is what will prevent the spread of Pit Bull specific legislature.

IMHO ..
post #133 of 138
This thread has probably run its course, but I would just like to mention one thing. I went to the Super Pet Expo at the Dulles Expo Center in Chantilly VA last Saturday. There were a lot of pit bulls there along with a lot of other breeds. There were no fights, no attacks, and no bloodshed. It was a very nice event with many lovely bully (meaning bulldog type!) breed dogs milling around with many dogs/people. They didn't go after the live chickens or alpacas either, probably because they all had fairly responsible owners!
post #134 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet72947 View Post
This thread has probably run its course, but I would just like to mention one thing. I went to the Super Pet Expo at the Dulles Expo Center in Chantilly VA last Saturday. There were a lot of pit bulls there along with a lot of other breeds. There were no fights, no attacks, and no bloodshed. It was a very nice event with many lovely bully (meaning bulldog type!) breed dogs milling around with many dogs/people. They didn't go after the live chickens or alpacas either, probably because they all had fairly responsible owners!
Yes, they were trained and owned by capable people.
I have seen thoroughbreds being ridden by developmentally disabled people, but I certainly wouldn't say that because of that, any thoroughbred race horse could be ridden by just anybody.
The problem is that there are people who refuse to accept, or even glorify in, certain breed traits in certain animals. I remember in the late '60s and early '70s, dobermans were doing a lot of damage to other pets & people - they were a popular breed who were disfigured by ear and tail dockings. The appeal was their breed traits as being ferocious watchdogs. It was soooo "macho" They didn't get the popularity with the ranchers that I knew, because they were prone to take down calves & lambs and attack horses and seemed to lack intelligence. My sister had one that we called "Lamb" and she was the sweetest dog but like many of the "pitties" here, "knew her place" - maybe a requirement of owning a pit should be being a cat person
post #135 of 138
This thread makes me want to go get a pit bull and prove to the ones that dont believe that pit bulls can be well socialized that they really can. Not everyone may be able to do it, but its not impossible. Humans are way more aggressive than dogs. So lets just start killing eveyone to make sure it doesn't happen again... I dont think so!!
post #136 of 138
Quote:
respectfully suggest that I think it is more likely that the fact that I dared to question one of the deeply held beliefs of the pittie supporters (the the media gives unbalanced coverage of dog attacks to the detriment of pitties) that I must be one of "them", the anti-pitties, the ban dangerous breeds crowd. So rather than respond to my words, they responded to what they assumed I believed, aside from what I actually said
Above shown in context to avoid possible appearance of truth twisting or any other such behaviors. I wish to address this aspect of the quote above


Quote:
(the the media gives unbalanced coverage of dog attacks to the detriment of pitties)

The media gives unbalanced coverage of dog attacks, house fires, murders, tragedies, traffic accidents, you name it the media has screwed it up.

I have been present during event that were reported by the media and they were so inaccurate it wasn't funny. In subject I am well versed the media never gets even the basic right- journalism integrity has been out of vogue for over a decade.


Here is some thing you will never see in our media coverage because stories like this don't sale news - that is all the news is sensationalism for the sake of the Almighty dollar. . . .

in accordance with the copy right guidelines I believe this is legal


America’s New Secret Weapon

They are smaller and much more nimble than a German shepherd; friendlier and safer to handle then the average Belgian malinois and shed less than a Labrador retriever. Records with the American Temperament Testing Society (ATTS) show them with a higher passing rate for excellent, friendly temperament than the golden retriever. And Washington’s premier law enforcement agency, The Washington State Patrol, one of the nation’s premiere law enforcement agencies, has more of them working the streets and in training as narcotics and explosives detection K-9s than members of any other pure breed. They are truly the best kept secret weapon in law enforcement’s fight against terror plots and illegal narcotics trafficking.

They are American Pit Bulls.

That’s right. You read that correctly.

After two decades taking their turn - like the Doberman before them - as the fad "bad boy" dog attracting irresponsible and even criminal owners, today’s press coverage of the American pit bull is predictably all one sided. "Killer Pit Bull" is a sexy headline - it sells soap as the old saying goes - but it is hardly a fair and accurate representation of this old and storied breed. More importantly, while focusing on the misfortunes of only the “pit bull”, the media ignores those involving other breeds, thus giving an even more one-sided bias.

{for the moderators- literal copy right at bottom of page}

No images or content on this web site may be used for commercial purposes, or used on or in any item for sale or for which a donation is asked. However, anyone wishing to use these images in any display which presents the American pit bull in a positive manner is welcome to use them. Web site contents © Copyright LawDogsUSA 2007, All rights reserved.

{End Quote}

~Underling mine~


I don't think I am alone in believing the media is one sided in their reporting. I meant to convey this the other day but did not.

Pits are used as rescue animals - the fact that this hasn't even been mentioned even by those who are pro-pittie displayed the lack of awareness of this - perhaps these sites can end that.

For pits sake

Hardworking Pit Bulls Buck Bad Rap

This position is not an easy one for me - but it is the fair and just one. Maybe one of these days I will get to know you all well enough to share exactly how hard this is.
post #137 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch View Post
This thread makes me want to go get a pit bull and prove to the ones that dont believe that pit bulls can be well socialized that they really can.
No one in this thread has suggested otherwise.
post #138 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten_Smitten View Post
Above shown in context to avoid possible appearance of truth twisting or any other such behaviors. I wish to address this aspect of the quote above
The full context would have to include the original post which started all the hoopla:

Quote:
I don't think the perception that attacks by pits are given more media attention than attacks by other breeds is true. At least not around here. Every year there are several reports of dog attacks in the Houston metro area and they are not always pits. Pits are large, strong animals though. An attack by one is more likely to result in an injury serious enough to catch the attention of the media.
BTW: I have already retracted the "large" characterization of pits. Please lets don't get into that again.

My only comments about media coverage of dog attacks has been with regard to the very specific topic of whether they are apt to report a serious attack of a Pit Bull while ignoring equally serious attacks of other breeds. This is something that cannot be proven either true or false. To do so what require knowing about serious attacks by other breeds that were not reported by the media. How can this be known? Thus it is meant as and is stated as an opinion only. Others are welcome to disagree but not to slam me for my opinion.
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