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post #31 of 49
Oh yeah, our public school system is just aces, isn't it?
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Oh yeah, our public school system is just aces, isn't it?
REALLY depends on the district... & parent involvement is a must.
post #33 of 49
Yes, but those parents WILL BE paying taxes.
STill no back-up data?
post #34 of 49
Thread Starter 
Sorry I haven't check back in after my post. It is impossible to know at this time how home-schooled children are doing. As you could tell from the articles printed, home schooled students in California are supervised.

The legality is in a very gray area, which has been somewhat defined by this court decision.

The underlying question was of adults not connected to the children being able to keep an eye out for any kind of abuse. If abuse is happening in a family that is home-schooling who's to know?

In this family one of the children alleged some kind of abuse or neglect that's why Children's Services took it to court. They wanted the kids in a situation that wasn't controlled by the parents, so they could get an idea of whether the children were being abused.
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemae1277 View Post
better than having the taxpayers pay welfare or unemployment benefits later to these folks who didn't get a good enough education to get a job good enough to support themselves

I've always been kind of anti home school because of the social aspects. I think that if a student is planning on going to college and were home-schooled, they are going to get a very rude awakening when they are in the college environment. Structured class times, being thrust into the social network. I would be very interested in seeing stats on home schooled students and their success rates in college
Your first part made me laugh
There are many factors that play into graduation/drop out rates in college. Many people drop out in their freshman year, and most attended "formal" schools.
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Oh yeah, our public school system is just aces, isn't it?
I don't have a problem with home schooling mostly. I went to public school and later graduated undergrad and grad at state colleges. I personally know very few that decide to home school their children; but I can easily understand why some might want to raise their children that way at any point in the child's education. There are many valid reasons. I don't think it should be taken away.
post #37 of 49
Now this is a case that the ACLU SHOULD be involved with, defending those parent's rights to home school their children.

And, I'm sorry, kid's make untrue claims against their parents all the time.
I don't think this father is a child abuser and from the article those kids were NOT removed from the home.

The State of California has no RIGHT to do this IMO. Another step towards Socialism or, more like Communism. Maybe the State of California would like to take our young and raise them just like under the old USSR.
Why does it not surprise me that it is the State of California doing this?
I think Arnold needs to put the smack down on that court.

I can think of many, many, many reasons to home school children.
And valid ones at that
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
And, I'm sorry, kid's make untrue claims against their parents all the time.
I don't think this father is a child abuser and from the article those kids were NOT removed from the home.
some kids would consider being required to do schoolwork as abuse.
post #39 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Now this is a case that the ACLU SHOULD be involved with, defending those parent's rights to home school their children.

And, I'm sorry, kid's make untrue claims against their parents all the time.
I don't think this father is a child abuser and from the article those kids were NOT removed from the home.

The State of California has no RIGHT to do this IMO. Another step towards Socialism or, more like Communism. Maybe the State of California would like to take our young and raise them just like under the old USSR.
Why does it not surprise me that it is the State of California doing this?
I think Arnold needs to put the smack down on that court.

I can think of many, many, many reasons to home school children.
And valid ones at that
This is kind of funny because the law was written in the 50s. People have been home schooling mainly beginning in the 70s and 80s and they have basically found gray areas that have allowed them to continue. Once it was questioned and brought up in court, the judge had to fall back on the law as it was written.

My bet is that if the home schooling organizations make a big enough fuss, the laws will be rewritten to allow home schooling. Otherwise the law is clear, "public school, private school, or a tutor with a credential."

I'm just guessing that Children's Services wasn't sure what to think, but felt since the boy made a complaint they would like the children to have adults outside the family that the they could turn to and that could keep an eye on them.

Try to keep an open mind, this didn't start out as a way to "get" home schoolers. After all, if a family did want to hide abuse or neglect home schooling would be one way to do it.
post #40 of 49
True, but it just seems like here is a family with 8 kids being home schooled. Mom and Dad BOTH are together and involved (shocker enough), they just don't seem to fit the mold of child abusers.

It is disquieting to me that the so-called authorities can just come in and demand all these kids go to public school. Do parents have no rights anymore?

And if Family Services thought it was a legit complaint why weren't these kids removed from the home? Alot does not add up.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
After all, if a family did want to hide abuse or neglect home schooling would be one way to do it.
true - at least in Texas, educators are given training on how to spot suspicious circumstances. also, [again, Texas law is what i'm familiar with] we're required, by law, to report suspected abuse - as are medical professionals.
post #42 of 49
Thread Starter 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/us...ETq6Ka7bpEjs4A

This may belong in another thread. It is Muslims who wish to home-school for many of the same reasons Christians and others do.

A lot of them are in California and will be affected by whatever the courts and laws decide.
post #43 of 49
Good article Katie.
post #44 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post
true - at least in Texas, educators are given training on how to spot suspicious circumstances. also, [again, Texas law is what i'm familiar with] we're required, by law, to report suspected abuse - as are medical professionals.
It's the same here. I'm pretty sure that's why Children's Services wanted these kids in a public or private school that wasn't involved with the family. I could be wrong of course.
post #45 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Good article Katie.
Glad you liked it. I did. Of course, the California families home schooling is also going to come under question now.
post #46 of 49
My Sister Home Schools because there are nothing But Gangs in her area and her Son has been called terrible names for being mixed
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
My Sister Home Schools because there are nothing But Gangs in her area and her Son has been called terrible names for being mixed
I have known parents who home-schooled for the same reasons, but the kids who do best at home-schooling are those whose families are closely affiliated with churches or other strong community groups. I have known several families who, after finding out home-schooling wasn't preparing their kids for responsible adulthood (although many public schools aren't either), sent their kids to private schools and the kids do so much better. That's why I support the idea of vouchers being used in private schools.
I'd say that the majority of our repeat, public defender clients are those who home-schooled or continuation schooled. Whether their difficulties in regular school were a sign of their inabilities to cope socially is hard to discern.
My grandson has real problems in his San Diego school because he is getting called cracker even though he's less than 1/2 Anglo. He's 12 now and is worried because his little 1/2 brother is a green-eyed, red headed toddler. When will our society get to a point where we are educated enough so that race doesn't matter
I thought it would just be a matter of income & material wealth, rich v. poor, by now
post #48 of 49
Homeschooling is, IMO, not the best way to do it. Most parents do it with the best intentions, and some for good reasons, but it just isn't the best way. Then again, some do it with bad intentions, an example being one of my best friends who was struggling a lot with school (for what I'd call disciplinary reasons, not at all intelligence) and would have had to go to court for truancy and such. She was "homeschooled"... by which I mean, she didn't go to school. You have to take the standardized tests, but she could pass those pretty easily without cracking open a book.

My high school boyfriend was also homeschooled, as was my neighbor/childhood best friend. Both their parents did it "right"-- they learned more than they probably would have in regular school, both were very smart intrinsically. However, many of the experiences I got through gifted/advanced/etc programs, they didn't. Of course, they had more flexibility-- but their parents had to pay for everything while the school could defray the costs of some things simply because there were so many students involved.

Anyway, I have to agree about the social thing. As children, our report cards indicate things like (at least mine did) social development, sharing, bossiness, and other social skills that parents just aren't the best judge of, especially if the kids aren't interacting with anyone but people they know very well. My ex-boyfriend was just not good at meeting people, and I don't think his personality would have been that shy if he had been socialized like the rest of us. And yes, he did have all the replacement community/support stuff they always talk about. I just don't think you can get that outside of the school- those groups consist of like-minded people who generally like each other, not something you find in reality.

BUT. I think banning it is a little extreme (which is essentially what California has done... becoming an accredited teacher isn't easy). Maybe a lot of oversight and the like would be a better step. There are valid reasons to start homeschooling-- things like health conditions, and such.

Also, I spent this past quarter in the classroom of a middle school around here, with a student population of very disadvantaged, urban children. I got called more names than I'd heard of before, and had students tell me they'd rather work with the other student teacher because she's black, among other things. This is a problem in schools, I can't say it isn't, but that's a reflection of some serious social problems we all need to work on, and not necessarily a reason to pull a child out of school.
post #49 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Anyway, I have to agree about the social thing. As children, our report cards indicate things like (at least mine did) social development, sharing, bossiness, and other social skills that parents just aren't the best judge of, especially if the kids aren't interacting with anyone but people they know very well.
This touches on the reason I think Children's Services wanted these children in a public school. If there were problems at home as the boy reported, public school teachers are trained to look for them and mandated to report any suspected child abuse to Children's Services or the police. It also means that adults, not connected with the family, are available for the child to turn to.

I am on the fence on the subject of home schooling. My daughter teachers high school and is very much against home schooling. We have a lot of discussions on it and she's the one that brought this court decision to my attention.

If a child is being abused or neglected at home, or even suspects they're not getting the education they need, there is no one for them to turn to if they are being home schooled. This is a serious problem of oversight for the child in my opinion.

What if the father decides to "discipline" the boy for turning to the authorities for help? They need to be in a situation with objective adults watching out for them.
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