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Should I put her down?? PLEASE HELP! - Page 4  

post #91 of 121
I was asked to intercede here, and because of the urgency, I also consulted a friend of mine who works in emergency cat care. This is her response, not mine...

Get kitty to the referral NOW, not tomorrow, not the next day, but TODAY.

Most of the lab results indicated elecrtrolyte imbalances, dehydration, and early renal disease, but since the vet is a bit clueless, there could also be something else going on. IT IS OBVIOUS THIS CAT'S GLUCOSE IS DANGEROUSLY LOW, and they need to be checking blood and uriine glucose together and rule out diabetic crisis.

She very well could be in diabetic ketoacidosis, and could have explained most of her symptoms, particularly the seizure activity, face swelling. (overload of IV fluids can also cause this, but my guess would be ketoacidosis). If they had done a urine glucose check, they'd probably find high glucose in the urine and bacterial infection (also could explain the urinary issues).

The fluid in the lungs could be anything from undetected heart failure (no mention was made of an xray being taken), aspiration from forced feeding of liquids, tracheal/brnochial/lung infection as a result of the feeding tube they used in the hospital, or neoplasia gone undetected. An xray needs to be done IMMEDIATELY.

She recieved IV fluids too late in therapy (hospitalization), and her vital organ function was compromised at that time, possibly still is, particularly renal, and she is at high risk for diabetic hypoglycemia/ketoacidosis. Get her to the referral RIGHT NOW, or a qualified, established emergency vet facility IMMEDIATELY!!

Hope you heed her advice, "T" has saved many of my kittens when my vets were also clueless
post #92 of 121
Thread Starter 
We got reffered out yesterday but couldn't see the vet til this morning. I wasn't sure she was going to make it through the night, but she did! The vet did x-rays and a whole bunch of test and I don't remember everything but they think she has cancer. They would have to use an MRI to be able to detect it and they don't have the machine and even if that is the case, which all 3 vets in the building agree that is most likely what it is, she isn't healthy enough to go through treatment. I am going to pick her up around 4 and when I do I am going to get the particulars about everything they found (I was in shock a bit when he was talking to me) and I will post them. It is looking like I am going to have to let her go. She is such a fighter though, it is amazing. It kills me not knowing what is actually wrong with her. They said she was acting gracefully for them. She probably feels as bad as when we have the flu he said, maybe a headache n stuff. I would hate to have a headache for days upon days. OmG I don't want her to go but I think it is time. Any input would be greatly appreciate though I do know it is my decision. I will post when I get home with her all the info the dr tells me.
post #93 of 121
I am so sorry. I am in the same sort of situation with Zoey. Not knowing what it is or if it could get better is the worst part, I think. It would be easier if I knew that she wasn't going to get any better and that putting her to rest would be the best. On good days, I'm glad I'm letting her fight. On bad days, I feel like I'm making her suffer.

I have no experience with this (possibly why I'm having such a difficult time), but here are the questions I would ask the vet, and myself, before making the decision.

What makes them think she has cancer. Is it just because she DOESN'T have anything else? Or is there something specific in their tests indicating cancer?

Are they pretty sure that? (I was angry when the emergency vet told me to put Zoey to sleep and then told me we could do an autopsy to be sure...Hello!? If you aren't sure...why am I putting her to sleep?)

What are the options for treatment? Are they going to cure her, or just prolong her life? If prolong, for how long, and what will her quality of life be?

Do you feel like you've tried everything you can to help her get better? If there's a "I wonder if this would work" in you, I know I'd always wonder if I jumped the gun. It's worth asking the vet at least.

If you're not ready to make the decision, is their any palliative treatments they can give Bobber to make her comfortable while you wrap your head around it.

By the sounds of it, you've taken great care of Bobber over the last couple of weeks. She is lucky to have such a caring and devoted mom. Hopefully you will feel comfortable with your decision when you make it!

and for you and Bobber!
post #94 of 121
So sorry about your Cat. I know how you feel. I was hop[ing she would get better. I was told Coco had Lung Cancer and heart probems in Dec 2005 and they were wrong. That Vet was shut down too for all their Mistakes. I am here if you ever need to talk. I see you went to more then one Vet. You are taking great care of her. When Stormy was Pts I was told her Kidneys were gone she might have Cancer in thre Kidneys. I think you might have to let her go and it is the hardest thing to do. Ask the Vet the quality of life she has and what they think. I did with Yoshi. The people in this group helped alot.
post #95 of 121
Thread Starter 
I talked to the vet a bit today. He went over all her blood work, her ekg, her xray, and just general information. He thinks she has cancer because of the xray (attatched at bottom) and her white blood count. Her chemistry, the numbers I have posted with BUN, TBIL, PHOS, ALB and stuff like that are all in the normal range except her NA and Cl, they are just SLIGHTLY low. When we check out her Red blood cell count, HCT (dunno what that is), HGB are a quite a bit low and the RDW, WBC, NEU, MONO, EOS, BASO, and LYM are all high. Her WBC (white blood count) is up to 70% (the high end of "normal" is 20%, so not good.

I talked to the vet about putting her to rest. He does not want to do that yet, not sure why, but he wants to wait til at least Friday. He wants to see if she will start eating on her own and cointue to drink and stuff on her own, he said if she starts doing that to wait on putting her down, but if by Friday she isn't eating on her own we should put her to rest.

He talked to me about going and getting her checked for the cancer, I sort of wonder if he wants to see if she can eat and get more healthy so we can do the kemo or whatever for the possible cancer. Total speculation though! He kept talking about referring her there but he did tell me right now she probably wouldn't qualify for treatment so confused a little. She is still on her potassium supplement and the antibiotic but he gave me Prednisone, a steriod. They also put her on tums.

When we got home I gave her some tuna juice and she drank it right up. When we went by a few fast food places on the way to the vet/on the way back she had her nose up in the air smelling the food. They gave me some A/D and I am going to give her some of that tonight, I just wanted to get something in her and I know that she likes the tuna and ate some yesterday. Below are links to the pictures of her xrays.

(I added writting to this xray)

post #96 of 121
Again from my friend:

Was a urinalysis done? Was a thyroid function test ever done? Was FELV and FIV tested, ruled out? Did they ever suggest to send off a serology for immunological disease? (for fungal disease-pemphigus/crypto, for immune disease, infectious disease, parasitic and blood-borne parasitic disease-hemobart, tick disease, toxo, salmonella, etc) Was cushings or addison's ruled out? The high WBC could indicate infection somewhere, as well as inflammation (like GI, obstruction, IBD etc).

The foot problem started quite awhile ago, if neoplasia was suspected then, why didn't they investigate further IN ALL THAT TIME!!??
They kept saying sprain, soft tissue injury, no, a sprain, no, a soft tissue injury, any competent vet would have done xrays then, and followed up to make darn sure there was no neoplasia developing, particularly in the lungs. They did NOTHING to diagnose specifically.

DO NOT ASSUME cancer at this point. When the CBC and hematocrit are iffy like this, they need to be repeated more than once, sometimes a couple times a day to get an accurate account! The xrays are too cloudy to detect anything, I assume the actual xrays are clearer, but this does NOT diagnose cancer. If repeated bloodwork shows abnormalities, xrays show metastasis and an ultrasound confirms the presence of a mass, then one might suspect neoplasia, but at this point, the bloodwork is not confirmative. Why wait, go see the oncologist today, he can review kitty's records, the xrays, even take a new one to determine if there is a neoplasia affecting the paw, and can also better determine what the chest xray reveals.

I'd also re-evaluate the potassium supplement dose or even the necessity of it, and question the TUMS.

The oncologist can probably make a determination if neoplasia or not, and chemo therapy probably could be initiated, but if kitty is very ill at this point, getting her nutrition status sufficient, hydration needs met, and prednisone therapy started, can help improve health in which to start chemo.

In the meantime, get her eating and drinking sufficiently (mix the A/D with small amount of water so she can lap at it, or ask the vet for a specific gastrointestinal diet, ask for an appetite stimulant). Keep stress reduced at all costs. If her mucous membranes are pale/white/red/blue, get her to emergency ASAP. If she's dehydrated, get fluids ASAP. If fever or hypothermia develop, get to emergency ASAP. If breathing worsens, do not wait, get to emergency ASAP.

I wouldn't wait, get the consult/new exam with the oncologist, tell your vet you want kitty's records and xrays faxed to the oncologist ASAP
(today!) for a review, you don't want this vet assuming cancer if it's not, and if the oncologist can rule in or out, then you have a better idea of treatment approaches.
post #97 of 121
Thread Starter 
So I am pretty sure everyone has come to a conclusion since no one has posted or anything. I don't mean to be weird or anything, but usually someone has left one within a few hours after I have left one. I feel very alone on this. I agree that it is time to talk about putting her down, I don't want her to suffer through this, but we don't know what it is exactly, though a lot of it is pointing to cancer. She has an appetite now, eating tuna juice like it is going out of style and she is eating A/D a bit. She prefers the liquids. I hate this because no one else sees her like I do, I have seen improvements in her and it makes me want to scream that she is making improvements but still everyone thinks I should put her down. I do understand because yeah she is making improvements but she needs treatment to live through the cancer. I am just lost and confused. When the time comes, that will be my last update, until then, Thank you to everyone that has supported us and sent us love prayers and vibes. You all have been a God-send!
post #98 of 121
I did post on my friend's behalf, perhaps you didn't see the latest recommendations? But here is my post, instead of feeling alone and feeling blue, cancer (if it is cancer) is for the most part treatable. I have a kitty here who has been delivered the death sentence by various vets in the area several times. She has no ears any more, they were removed due to acute sarcoma- there's a longer term for it, but it escapes me right now.

At any rate, she is still here. I haven't done chemo on her, or put her on any of the extreme measures the vets have recommended- her ears are constantly dirty and need cleaning and she hates to be messed with, but for now the cancer core is quiet in her ears and she will live here until she can no longer meet the day.

I repeat what T has said already. Get this kitten to a vet who specializes in oncology. See what the experts say about it. If the kitty is putting you in the poor house there are other options out there, organizations that if you qualify will pay for the cat's care once you qualify.

What if this is treatable? What if it isn't cancer but something else that your vet for whatever reason isn't seeing?
post #99 of 121
This is my own personal opinion, so you can take it for what it's worth. If Bobber were my cat, I would take into consideration her behavior. Does she eat, sleep, pee, poop and get around comfortably? Does she seem engaged in her surroundings? Does she ask for and accept attention, petting or grooming (does she groom herself?) Most importantly, does she appear to be in pain? Only you know the answers to these questions. These are the things I would use to guage her quality of life. If I could answer yes to all, or even most of these questions, I wouldn't have her put down. (However, if she appears to be in pain, that would be my most important deciding factor of all.) The only true way to figure out if she has cancer, would be to do a biopsy. Once a biopsy is done, and you know definitively IF she has cancer, and if she does, what kind of cancer it is....can you afford expensive chemo or radiation treatments? Is there anyone near you that can provide these treatments for her? Very few vets offer chemo or radiation treatments, and you would probably need to take her to a large city or a Veterinary Medical School for treatment. The other option is a cautious 'wait and see' type of thing. You can take her home and do everything you currently do. Take her back in a month and have her x-ray repeated, to see if anything has changed. Another option is merely to treat her symptoms....steroids or pain medication, etc., until you believe her quality of life has diminished.

I am so sorry that you feel like nobody cares. That's totally untrue! We all feel very bad for anyone who has to go through this type of thing with their beloved fur-babies. Please know that you and Bobber continue to be in my prayers. I hope that things will become clear to you, and that you and Bobber have many good days ahead of you.

post #100 of 121
I had a Cat with borderline Cancer in her Breast and she lived. They removed the Breast and alot of tissue around it at age 4. I lost her to Crf at age 11. it was nothing to do with the lump. Why do you think no one cares. I care but am not always on to post.
post #101 of 121
Thread Starter 
hey thanks for the replies! i didnt think id get any. this is going to have to be really quick though bc i am suppose to be gone already but just some quick answers.

They dont know if it is cancer for sure but with the x-ray and the blood count they think that is the most likely thing. there is a place about 2.5 hours from me that i can be reffered to, but with her red blood count being low and some other stuff dealing with that the vet i saw yesterday said she wouldnt qualify for treatment.

she is drinking (specially tuna juice and water), grooming herself, peeing, and does not appear to be in pain. i do think she is uncomforetable sometimes, but she is purring a little bit and she loves her belly rubbed and whatnot. the vet also agreed she is not in a lot of pain, just uncomforetable. she did just start tryin to eat again. the other day she made her first big thing and got her appitite back, but she hadnt really tried to eat again til today. she has been doing VERY good though. i got to go but i will re-read the posts and post if i missed anything.

post #102 of 121
Thread Starter 
Hi, I wanted to say that I am sorry for my previous posts. Posting that it feels like no one cares was so untrue, I know you guys do! I was completely wrong to even put anything like that. At first I believe I was talking about people around me (friends and family) then it sorta switched onto you guys. I was completely wrong about both of those! I was just feeling sorry for myself and not looking at things rationally.
post #103 of 121
Originally Posted by kittiekitten View Post
Hi, I wanted to say that I am sorry for my previous posts. Posting that it feels like no one cares was so untrue, I know you guys do! I was completely wrong to even put anything like that. At first I believe I was talking about people around me (friends and family) then it sorta switched onto you guys. I was completely wrong about both of those! I was just feeling sorry for myself and not looking at things rationally.
It's ok - all of us who have experienced what you're going through understand. It can be hard not to get depressed at times, or feel sorry for yourself. You do the best you can.

I'm just now catching up with this thread. You've gotten some very good advice recently from Hissy and Pookie-poo. It seems to me that despite being pretty ill, Bobber's still got spirit and life in her. I second Pookie-poo's wish that you and Bobber will have more time together.

Heartfelt good wishes to you & your sweet Bobber.
post #104 of 121
Originally Posted by mews2much View Post
I had a Cat with borderline Cancer in her Breast and she lived. They removed the Breast and alot of tissue around it at age 4. I lost her to Crf at age 11. it was nothing to do with the lump. Why do you think no one cares. I care but am not always on to post.
Many people are working or are busy with families and can't always post all the time. I don't post nearly as much during the week as I do on the weekend. Some people are the opposite.

I don't understand how the vet can say your cat doesn't qualify for treatment when they don't even know for sure what she has yet. I understand they think it MAY be cancer but since there is no biopsy or anything, they really don't have much to make that kind of prognosis. When I worked in a cardio thoracic intensive care for over 10 years, we didn't tell patients who came in with symptoms, a few borderline labs and an xray showing something in the lung, that there was no treatment for them. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because at that point, we wouldn't even be exactly sure what we were looking at. I hope you get it all sorted out. Give Bobbers some scritches for me!
post #105 of 121
I have only just read this thread, I do hope you get some answers - I personally wouldnt put any of my cats through chemo. i do hope you can get her eating something decent and soon, as that is one of the biggest hurdles - could you make her some chicken broth and put shredded chicken in it? That would be better for her than tuna water. Will be keeping you in my thoughts.
post #106 of 121
I wouldn't give an animal chemo, either. I feel it isn't fair... unlike humans, they don't know that they're being put through pain in an effort to prolong their lives. It's hard enough for humans, even though they do know.

I suspect the vet may be saying the cat doesn't qualify for cancer treatment because the cat is too ill to handle treatment.

Of course we can't tell you what's best to do, and I'm not advocating either side, but I do think it's important to seriously consider putting the cat to sleep as one of your two options. It's so painful to contemplate that sometimes we deny that's one of the two ways to go. It's important to consider what's best for the cat, and whether we're trying to hang on just for us. If a cat is elderly and sick and is going to pass away, you wouldn't want to look back and think that you'd prolonged its pain. On the other hand, if the vets think the cat has a chance of full recovery and a significant quality of life, or if the treatment would be short-term and low on pain, then you go that way.
post #107 of 121
I certainly wouldn't put her to sleep till you find out for sure what is wrong with her. None of us want our vets to "guess" what might be wrong with our animals. Either they know, or they don't. If they don't know, then the ball is in our court and it is time to move on and find a vet who does.
post #108 of 121
I think only you can truly know what to do. I had posted about my dear Metallica and questioned putting her down. She wasn't doing well at all and was in pain. Many didn't think it was right to put her to sleep, but in three days she died on her own. Thank goodness it wasn't a slow and terribly painful death, but she still died.

Go with what's in your heart.
post #109 of 121
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone! I know everyone is busy and have their own lives, I just got caught up in the moment with drepssion and stuff.

I don't really think chemo is a good thing for her to go through either.

She started having a much larger appitite today! I keep her in the kittie room so she can have fresh air and security from the other cats and she walked out this morning and went straight to the regular food bowls. That is when I put down her special food. She had stuff in the room with her but she wanted fresh stuff. I know tuna isn't the best thing to give because of the ash and there are lack of vitamins but it is what she will eat. I have tried chicken broth and she didnt like it, a/d food wasn't intersted, babyfood (she did eat a little bit of that on monday), the regular canned cat food, tuna is what she wanted lol.

I am going to go to the store today to get regular canned cat food again and try that and some other options. I may retry things since she does have an appitite today.

She is walking around more, investigating her surrounds more, purring more.. I really want to know what this really is. I am still torn what I am going to do, well when I am going to do it, but I am going to see a specialist before I make the final decision.

She seems pretty content atm.
post #110 of 121
Originally Posted by kittiekitten View Post
So I am pretty sure everyone has come to a conclusion since no one has posted or anything. I don't mean to be weird or anything, but usually someone has left one within a few hours after I have left one. I feel very alone on this.
Sorry, I was out of town on a trip to Hattiesburg, MS.

I'm still of the opinion that if she isn't showing real signs of pain and misery, and if she eats and drinks and eliminates, you should give her every chance.

You know, one vet told me one real problem with caring for cats and dogs is that they really don't do enough autopsies. I know that sounds cruel, but when a vet has tried everything, it can really help to try to SEE what happened. Vets know more today of cat physiology than doctors knew about humans 300 years ago, but still not as much as would make their diagnoses fairly secure.

And if they knew everything, they wouldn't still be doing autopsies on humans!
post #111 of 121
Thread Starter 
I called and made an appointment to put her down. I am going to have the blood work redone before we do it just to make sure. At this moment I still don't know if it is right, I know some think it is and some might think it is not. I talked to a feline specialist in Texas and she said it sounds like it is time. I had told her it was a mass in her lungs, but I called the vet that did the xray and he said he wasn't sure if it was a mass. I don't know really, she is making small improvements, but I really don't want her to suffer. For now I think she has probably been uncomforetable, but she has wanted to be here. I still think she wants to be here but I don't want her to truely be in pain and whatnot. I do not want her breathing to get so bad that she is panting tryin to get breath. I am going to talk to the vet tomorrow bout it a bit before we really do it. I think maybe it is an infection in her lungs (spread from the possible infection in her foot) but the infection could be too much for her body to overcome (if it is an infection and not cancer). BLAH I love her and I have done what I feel I needed to know. I don't know if it is right putting her down, but I do not want her to suffer.

She is very anemic, she is at 16.8 and I was told today at 12 is when they do a blood transfusion, so it is getting close. We will have to see what the blood work says. It saved her life 2 Mondays ago, maybe it will save her life again tomorrow. Either way, I thank everyone a million times and more for everything, all the input, suggestions, thoughts, prayers, feelings, just everything. I know I have said thank you many times but I really do thank you all. If it wasn't for you, I probably would have lost my mind a long time ago! I will update tomorrow after the vet appointment.
post #112 of 121
that's a decision i don't envy you in having to make
post #113 of 121
Please post her CBC results. If her HGB (hemoglobin) is 12, that is completely normal. If it's her HCT (hematocrit) that's 12, then yes, she's very anemic. My parent's cat, Samson, had a critical hemoglobin (HGB) of 3.5 due to his CRF. Yes, a hemoglobin of 3.5 is totally incompatible with life. However, we couldn't afford the $1700 for a transfusion, so we opted to treat him with Epogen shots. After 3 weeks, his HGB was back up to 12 (Normal!) and with twice weekly shots, he lived another full year before his body quit responding to the Epogen. Anemia is not a death sentence. You need to have an aggressive vet, who will figure out the reason for the anemia, and then to offer you the options to treat it. From everything you've said so far, I don't think that it's time to PTS. However, that is a decision that you and Bobber must make together. My prayers are with you at this difficult time.
post #114 of 121
Coco had Severe Anemia in 2001 and the Er Vet said she would not live and to have her Pts. She is now 16. I hope your Cat gets better. I also had a Cat named Stripe with Crf and Severe Anemia. She was saved by Blood Transfusions. We did Procrit and Winstrol for a year. She would have Sub q's too. Blood Transfusions help alot.
post #115 of 121
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone! I really appreciate the posts, I really really would LOVE for anything else to be the answer. I will talk to the vet before I do it. The main problem is how she is breathing. She has been breathing deep, not panting or anything, just pretty deep. Well there are times now where I can see it getting worse. In my heart, I still don't know if it is the right thing, because I do not want to let her go, BUT I can tell she is starting to suffer when the breathing gets worse. Trust me, I know you can probably tell, she is my little lover butt, she is the most perfect thing ever and I wish I didn't feel I need to do this. We have faught like hell to keep her here, but I can't let her breathing get worse. She did get Wed night when I gave her her meds and she started panting. I hate that she is eating and drinking now, but her breathing isn't getting better. If it wasn't for that damn mass or whatever in her lungs she would be a happy kittie, but it isn't improving. God please let me doing the right thing!!!! I called and have the appointment moved to this morning, I can't let her suffer. OMG I am so confused! Anyways, I am going to have them repeat blood work before it happens so if that improves a bit then I wont PTS.

P.S. her hct is the one that is at 16.8% (reference 30-45) hgb at 6.2 (reference 9-15)
post #116 of 121
So sorry about your Cat.
post #117 of 121
I am so sorry you are having to go through this. Having to make the decision to put your loved one to rest is a very hard ordeal to go through.

If your cat still has the fight in her to survive I would give her that chance. She will let you know when she has given up the fight.

I know the feelings you are going through it is such a roller coaster ride of emotions. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your sweet baby
post #118 of 121
Thread Starter 
She is gone. I have a thread in the crossing the bridge forum.

She was put down about 12 this afternoon.
post #119 of 121
I am so sorry - your Bobber was so dearly loved during her time with you. Blessings on you both.
post #120 of 121
I'm so very sorry to hear about Bobber.
It's very clear from you posts just how much you loved her.
It's not only clear to us, it was clear to Bobber too
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