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Please tell me this isn't true

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Got this in an email so started hunting for it on-line and this is what I found which may or may not be true. (I am NOT a computer detective by any means)


IF this is true, this really, really suck and I do not see how anyone could vote for a party that would support this.

http://thehive.modbee.com/?q=node/7146
post #2 of 22
False, according to snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/pelosi.asp
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Dang, I hate it when I get stupid emails with this dumb stuff on them.
Thank you
post #4 of 22
If you check the referenced article and the snopes article, you'll see they're talking about two entirely different things. What the article says is true: Rolling back the Bush tax cuts would be a big tax increase on even the lowest-earning taxpayers. In fact, many people who today are paying no income tax will again be subject to taxes.

Just by the by, oil companies are making about 8% profits; that is well within the margin of "normal" by anyone's standards, I think.
post #5 of 22
Then again, if we continue operating at trillion-dollar deficits, our country will collapse. So... forgive me when I'm happy to pay my share.
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Then again, if we continue operating at trillion-dollar deficits, our country will collapse. So... forgive me when I'm happy to pay my share.

It's kind of like maxing out all of your credit cards then leaving your debt to your kids to pay off. How irresponsible can you get?

When I looked at the tax scales for the Clinton and Bush times, they aren't right. I'm paying more now than I did back then and our income hasn't changed enough to push us into a different bracket. That makes me question the entire article.
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
If you check the referenced article and the snopes article, you'll see they're talking about two entirely different things. What the article says is true: Rolling back the Bush tax cuts would be a big tax increase on even the lowest-earning taxpayers. In fact, many people who today are paying no income tax will again be subject to taxes.

Just by the by, oil companies are making about 8% profits; that is well within the margin of "normal" by anyone's standards, I think.
Thank you so much for your clarification.


Gee Z, won't you feel sorry for all those really poor people that will have to start paying taxes?
post #8 of 22
Well, if you want my opinion, I'd bet that somehow those lower brackets will be frozen, but you never know. You know that the tax bill passed by the first Clinton administration in 1993 (took effect in October 1993) was largely responsible for the disastrous election in 1994 for Democrats. It was a huge hit to us, I know.

I sure wish they would do away with the income tax and find a better way. But if I knew what that might be, I'd be running for office, right?
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
My mother is all for a "Flat Tax" The more you spend the more taxes you pay.
It does seem to be the fairest way. But it would be much to simple for the government to ever do something like that.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
My mother is all for a "Flat Tax" The more you spend the more taxes you pay.
It does seem to be the fairest way. But it would be much to simple for the government to ever do something like that.
There would be things to work out, but I have to agree with your mom. Can she run for president?
post #11 of 22
Wouldn't a "Flat Tax" really adversely affect the poor? Our VAT jumped from 16% to 19% last year, and people on fixed incomes, i.e., welfare recipients and retirees, are really suffering because of it. It might sound like a good solution to people with "middle-class incomes", but could prove too inequitable for a lot of folks who are just scraping by.
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
One would hope that food would still be exempt from taxes.
I really find it hard to believe that so many people just cannot wait to pay those higher taxes. When you think about all the taxes we pay now, I think we pay enough in taxes. I have no problem with what I pay now but I certainly do not want to pay what the Dems will make me pay if they get in.
post #13 of 22
I was looking at the income to tax charts under each administration and I don't believe any of it. I make around $30k, am single and have never paid anywhere near $8000 in taxes. I mean not even CLOSE! In fact not even 1/16th! Not under Clinton and not under Bush.

Oh and just a side note.... food is not tax free in every state. Utah being one.
post #14 of 22
Food isn't tax-free anywhere--the tax is just hidden. Some have calculated that well over 2/3 of the cost of a loaf of bread (or almost anything else) is tax. That's why there is no such thing as a corporate tax; the consumer ulitimately pays it.

Food has sales tax in Arkansas, because Bill Clinton broke his promise to his supporters to line-item veto it. Of course, that was a long time ago, and no one has bothered to remove it, either. You know what they say about nothing being more permanent than a temporary tax.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Wouldn't a "Flat Tax" really adversely affect the poor? Our VAT jumped from 16% to 19% last year, and people on fixed incomes, i.e., welfare recipients and retirees, are really suffering because of it. It might sound like a good solution to people with "middle-class incomes", but could prove too inequitable for a lot of folks who are just scraping by.
Maybe... and I am one of those barely scraping by. BUT maybe not. I think that a lot more people would actually pay taxes that way resulting in less taxes for each of us. I don't think there is any way to tell how many people are working "under the table," but I know it is a LOT. Those people don't pay income tax at all, unless the IRS finds out. Many are stuck working under the table for years because they are afraid that once they find a "real" job the IRS will be after them.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Gee Z, won't you feel sorry for all those really poor people that will have to start paying taxes?
What's that supposed to mean? I've never seen a plan where people below the poverty line have to pay taxes.

If this is some sort of dig because you know I'm a wage-slave because I'm still in school, you'll be glad to know that I do pay taxes, federal, state and local. When I fill out my tax return, it says that I've overpaid and I get a refund. This year, it was something like 300$. Would the world seem fairer to you if I didn't get my 300$ back?

If it's supposed to be "evidence" that the flat tax is fair, you're flat-out wrong. The flat tax is the least fair idea, and doesn't do anything but screw the poor and benefit the wealthy.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
No dig.

Why is it so unfair? The more you buy, the more taxes you pay. How can that possibly be unfair. LOL, How does that benefit the wealthy?
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
One would hope that food would still be exempt from taxes.
I really find it hard to believe that so many people just cannot wait to pay those higher taxes. When you think about all the taxes we pay now, I think we pay enough in taxes. I have no problem with what I pay now but I certainly do not want to pay what the Dems will make me pay if they get in.
No, it is much better under the Republicans who just sell the treasury bonds to China to finance their pet projects.

The flat tax makes everything much more expensive and as such will take a larger portion of the poorer people's disposable income.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
It does not make everything more expensive, it just seems that way.

I'm not saying I am for it anyway, because it really does seem like the price of everything would go up way to much even though we wouldn't have taxes taken out of our paycheck.

Blame Billy-Boy for China not my pal George.
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
It does not make everything more expensive, it just seems that way.

I'm not saying I am for it anyway, because it really does seem like the price of everything would go up way to much even though we wouldn't have taxes taken out of our paycheck.

Blame Billy-Boy for China not my pal George.
Your pal George ran up the largest deficits in the history of this country. And it was financed by the Chinese. Thanks to George Bush for selling out the country. If they dump their dollars, we're done for.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
No dig.

Why is it so unfair? The more you buy, the more taxes you pay. How can that possibly be unfair. LOL, How does that benefit the wealthy?
Poor people spend almost all of their income on basic necessities. The wealthy (at least the smart ones) spend a pretty low percentage of their income and and almost nonexistent percentage of their net worth.

That means poorer people (lower middle class, usually there's an exemption below x$ income) are taxed on everything, and rich people don't pay their share of taxes on their income or assets.

I suppose it isn't completely fair to say the wealthy should pay most of the taxes, but well, they should.

Either that or we need to start taxing corporations more.
post #22 of 22
Most people who criticize the flat tax overlook the fact that the expenses of basic living are deducted before the tax is assessed.

Those who don't understand the consumption tax overlook (or haven't heard) that one basic part of it is a monthly rebate on the tax on the basics of life.

Do I think either of them has a chance? Nope. The tax avoidance industry is too big.
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