TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Proposed Immigration Policy
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Proposed Immigration Policy

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Since this is a hot topic on and off on this forum I thought I would post this for comments. It relates a little bit to my thread here, http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=158804 but really it deserves it's own thread. This is a letter to the editor of the local paper of the "big town" nearest to me. Any comments on Mexico's policy towards US immigrants?

Does anyone have the immigration requirements of other countries as they apply to US citizens? What about other countries policies for illegal immigrants if such things even exist?

http://www.ruidosonews.com/letters/ci_8326857
Turnabout is fair play
post #2 of 24
well, the only way a male is allowed to stay in indoensia, is with a job. mostly a sponser from outside company.

As a male marraige is not good enough. They expect you to take your wife and leave. Females who marry indo males are allowed to
stay if they agree not to look for work. AS none indo i am not allowed to own anything i my name, The business, the house, the car, the wife is listed owner, or 51% control

i had business visa, that was supposed to be good enough to stay(there cared was pink, not green lol ) however when i left the country and came back, i was told i had been illegal for 3 years. No matter that during the time i was there, i went to the local police station once a month checked in and paid my 100 dollars to stay. Accoding to them they had no such recored of that, and i was on the wrong visa anyway. So i was arrested put in a little room, not sure for how long, then stuck on a plane to singapore. So i was missing for three days before i was able to tell the wife what happed(no i was not allowed a phone call)

how they have been nice, about letting back in for familiy stuff a couple of times, i can not get my visa back to stay. even with a business and a wife there. We have been trying to take it to court, but they have no real want to hear my case. If i show back up, with out, i have been told i would get a long jail term.

also you can forget ever being a Citizen i think i saw once where , they have granted citizen once in 25 years( i dont know if that is true or not) not that i would give up my US citizenship anyway.

if you have kids, they are not allowed to go to school. you have to send them to expart school (very expenisve). Once the child reachers 18 they have to leave the country.( i think this one has changed)

Thailand is very much the same, but not as hard as indo is.

Most countries do not allow people just to show up and move in.
i think its denmark? or maybe Switzerland where people like in a town council vote if the person gets to stay or not.

i really fail to understand why people think other just have the right to show up and move in
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Your experiences in Indonesia are very interesting. ( not fun for sure) I too wonder why we, as in the US, are the only country that seems to be bashed for our immigration policies which so far seem pretty liberal compared to Mexico and Indonesia at this point.

I wonder if the people from other countries who complain about our immigration policies know what the policies of their countries are?

I hope more people are able to provide information from other countries. I think it will be very interesting to compare, like the tax information in another current thread.

As a side note, there was an interesting little bit on the national news tonight about Denmark, recently ranked the happiest place to live. There have been riots and building burnings, apparently in the "immigrant" section.
It would enlightening to find out what has prompted, the young Danes specifically, to lash out in such a violent manner against the "immigrants". It seems violence of this nature is very rare in Denmark.

I have Immigrants in quotes because from the news they gave no indication whatsoever of just who these people were, but specifically said "immigrants". It was actually sort of odd.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
As a side note, there was an interesting little bit on the national news tonight about Denmark, recently ranked the happiest place to live. There have been riots and building burnings, apparently in the "immigrant" section.
It would enlightening to find out what has prompted, the young Danes specifically, to lash out in such a violent manner against the "immigrants". It seems violence of this nature is very rare in Denmark.

I have Immigrants in quotes because from the news they gave no indication whatsoever of just who these people were, but specifically said "immigrants". It was actually sort of odd.
The recent rioting was by immigrant youths in Denmark, presumably triggered by the arrests of people plotting to murder one of the Danish cartoonists who caricatured Muhammad, and the subsequent reprinting of that artist's cartoon:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7247817.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251178.stm

Roughly a year ago, Danish and other European adolescents rioted because a youth center located in a "squatters' quarter" was torn down:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/le...molition.shtml

Here's some information on Germany's restrictive immigration laws:
http://www.zuwanderung.de/english/index.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...442681,00.html

Turkey is especially critical of the basic language proficiency requirement:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...475839,00.html
post #5 of 24
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0045f3d6a1RCRD

It isn't easy to become a U.S. Citizen. It takes several years and lots of money. The employes of INS are overworked, rude and generally incompetent.

This is a link to the official U.S. page for persons wishing to be naturalized. It gives a good idea of how complex and difficult it is.

My son-in-law is a Swedish citizen. They met in high school when he was an exchange student. He returned to finish his high school education. When he came here to marry my daughter, it took a year just to get the green card. During that time he couldn't work. It took another year before he was eligible to become a U.S. citizen. He already spoke English and was well educated about American government and history in Sweden.

Immigrating legally from Mexico is nearly impossible. Most people would be past their most-productive work years before they ever made it, even if they applied when they were young.

It's also my understanding that all European countries now have a problem of illegal immigration. The only variation is which country the illegals are coming from
post #6 of 24
oh my goodness...the media and liberals would have a HAY DAY over finger printing immigrants as part of their probation period. I couldn't see that happening here.

The one thing I will say from immigration stories that I have heard is that many people from non-US countries truly believe that they have a RIGHT to be here in the US...which is probably why they critisize our immigration policy so much. That and the fact that it takes so long to get citizenship...

My old friends from immigration law to be able to recite by memory "No...you do not have the right to be here...you are born of a different nation and not U.S. You have very little rights here"
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
It isn't easy to become a U.S. Citizen. It takes several years and lots of money. The employes of INS are overworked, rude and generally incompetent.

that is also the issue , the waves coming in now,
DO not want to be US citizens or to fit in with socity,
they just want the money.

And soon to be free medical care.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Excellent links/info JCat. Just what I was wondering about. It is interesting that Germany's policy is relatively newly enacted, 2005 and the policy stresses integration into German society. The "melting pot" vs "mosaic" issue.

The policy states very clearly it is designed to maintain the economic and social integrity of the country. It was also enlightening that they rescinded their "guest worker" program in 1973 and they are not making exceptions for businesses to use immigrants for cheap labor. Valid points IMO.

Jcat, do you know why the Turkish foreign minister is so critical of the language requirement? Are there a high number of Turkish immigrants?

In the links to the Danish riots, I was surprised to learn it was the immigrants who were rioting. The NBC news made it sound like it was crimes against the immigrants. These immigrants in Denmark are clearly not willing to fit in if some of them are chanting for a caliphate. Yikes.

I have to dig up the link, but recently on 20/20 or Primetime they did a piece on the happiest place and Denmark ranked number one. It was noted that although their tax rate was said to be 63% people didn't mind because they were a very homogeneous society. 90% native Danes, 80% Lutheran. Because of this they had the same views, goals, values, helping others is like helping oneself. It sounds like the immigrants ( legal and illegal) are seriously upsetting this balance in Denmark by not wanting to integrate into the society of their new chosen homeland.

It seems like both Germany and Denmark have/are experiencing what Imp was referring too "...do not want to be US citizens or fit in with society".

Katie, I agree it is difficult to become a US citizen. However, the Mexican regulations make it impossible for any US citizen to become a Mexican citizen. My best friend's husband is a Uruguayan national and my Step brother's wife is from the Ukraine. I know INS is not easy to deal with. Actually the Ukrainian government was worse though. It cost my Step Brother and his wife 3 times the U.S. fees to get all the paperwork from the Ukraine to leave that country. Like your Son-in-law she is highly educated and speaks fluent English.


Lunasmom, the illegals do think they have rights here. Recently a police officer in Roswell lost his job because he called INS on an 18 year old pregnant girl who was here illegally and attending high school. He came in contact with the girl via a parking violation. She got deported because of his call, which I think is the right thing. The backlash was that he got fired because we have a new law here that police officers are not allowed to make any inquiries to residence status during a criminal investigation. The next day there were 30 other illegal students protesting on the streets, complaining to the media that their rights were being violated and they were afraid to go to school because they might be deported too! The fact that they had no rights to even be attending school here, let alone be in this country, didn't seem to register at all with them.

Thus far we have other countries whose immigration policies are as strict or more strict than the U.S. policy. They have no problems with deporting illegals. Maintaining economic and social stability of the "home" country being the main purpose for creating these policies.

So why is there so much trouble here in the U.S? Is it because of our size? Anyone know Canada's immigration policy? They are another large, (as in land mass) prosperous country. I know that Toranto has a rather large Uruguayan illegal community, but does the country as a whole have immigration problems?

In the hand gun thread, it was mentioned that the U.S. firearms policy has created a huge market for illegal guns in Canada. Thus, there is obviously a border security issue between the U.S and Canada. Does this security issue facilitate an illegal immigrant issue for Canada too?
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
oh my goodness...the media and liberals would have a HAY DAY over finger printing immigrants as part of their probation period. I couldn't see that happening here.

The one thing I will say from immigration stories that I have heard is that many people from non-US countries truly believe that they have a RIGHT to be here in the US...which is probably why they critisize our immigration policy so much. That and the fact that it takes so long to get citizenship...

My old friends from immigration law to be able to recite by memory "No...you do not have the right to be here...you are born of a different nation and not U.S. You have very little rights here"
People applying for naturalization to be U.S. citizens ARE fingerprinted -- and at their own expense. They must also present photos of a certain size. Please check out the link I provided.

I don't think it's a law that the police cannot report an illegal during a criminal investigation. It was a policy of the police in Los Angeles for a long time not to inquire about citizenship status because the police felt it discouraged immigrant communities from cooperating in investigations. The L.A. police now cooperate with the INS. Any illegal that is convicted is deported once their sentence has been served.

I met a boy who told me about a friend of his who was recently deported. His family is Ukraine, but he has lived his entire life in Mexico City because his father is employed at the Ukraine Embassy there. He was here on a student visa, but had to leave when it ran out. He is going to school in Canada, now. 9/11 has changed things a lot.
post #10 of 24
hmm, Canada is in some ways much more liberal. I just saw a news story how many illegals are now passing though the US to get to canada.
with the vaule of there money up,and much more liberal imigration more and more the illegals are heading north of the US.
the short time i was in Vancouver they had a couple of cargo containers, loaded up with chinese(some of whom had died)
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
People applying for naturalization to be U.S. citizens ARE fingerprinted -- and at their own expense. They must also present photos of a certain size. Please check out the link I provided.

I don't think it's a law that the police cannot report an illegal during a criminal investigation. It was a policy of the police in Los Angeles for a long time not to inquire about citizenship status .
what wrong with being fingerprinted ? some countries now require that to enter. Everyone who travels passports pic have to match a size.

it should be law, to check someone legal status to be in this country. if they are going to school or in trouble with the police, they are sucking up my tax dollars.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
Jcat, do you know why the Turkish foreign minister is so critical of the language requirement? Are there a high number of Turkish immigrants?
There are approximately 7 million legal resident aliens, out of a total population of 82.4 million. Twenty-five percent of the foreigners are from Turkey, 8% from Italy, 6% from Poland, 5% from Serbia or Montenegro, 4% from Greece, 3% from Croatia, and 3% from the Russian Federation. The number of illegal immigrants is estimated at up to 1.5 million, so about 1.8% of the total population, tendency rising because of the open borders with Eastern European countries.

The Turkish foreign minister was quite aware of the reasons behind the language requirement. Arranged marriages are still common among Turks and Kurds in eastern Turkey, and a large percentage of the guest workers who came to Germany over a 40-year period were from that area, and the practice has continued. The spouses are often quite young (hence the minimum age of 18 in the law), uneducated, have a great deal of difficulty integrating because they don't speak any German, and are sometimes mistreated/abused by the families they marry into. The language requirement is actually meant to protect these women, the idea being that the more integrated the women are, the less likely they'll be to put up with abuse.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
I don't think it's a law that the police cannot report an illegal during a criminal investigation. It was a policy of the police in Los Angeles for a long time not to inquire about citizenship status because the police felt it discouraged immigrant communities from cooperating in investigations. The L.A. police now cooperate with the INS. Any illegal that is convicted is deported once their sentence has been served.

I met a boy who told me about a friend of his who was recently deported. His family is Ukraine, but he has lived his entire life in Mexico City because his father is employed at the Ukraine Embassy there. He was here on a student visa, but had to leave when it ran out. He is going to school in Canada, now. 9/11 has changed things a lot.
I don't know about Federal, but something happened here in New Mexico this past summer. I thought it was a state law or maybe it is a directive that was passed. The sheriff of Bernalillo County was very upset about it. He said he was to uphold ALL laws. They were saying it was supposed to increase the reporting of crime here as well. The crime rate in this state is out of control and ABQ is a very dangerous city.

I live very rural and INS doesn't come here because the illegals are considered a way of life on the ranches and the race track. Cheap labor and a way to avoid paying taxes for the employers. It is a big problem.

Interesting about the young man in Canada now. I found this link that summarizes the Canadian Immigration policies.
http://www.irpp.org/miscpubs/archive/bouchard_immig.pdf

Due to changing economics it stated in 2005 the legal immigrants were costing Canada 2 billion dollars a year. They are being employed less because Canadians are preferring to hire Canadians. There seems to be a strain starting on their system Despite this they have started to actively recruit immigrants again, especially those that go to school for higher education there.
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
hmm, Canada is in some ways much more liberal. I just saw a news story how many illegals are now passing though the US to get to canada.
with the vaule of there money up,and much more liberal imigration more and more the illegals are heading north of the US.
the short time i was in Vancouver they had a couple of cargo containers, loaded up with chinese(some of whom had died)

The link I provided in my post to Katie is interesting on these points. The majority of the legal immigrants to Cananda are from Asia and western pacific countries, with China topping the list. Also, in 2005 53% of the immigrants went to Onterio. That is a lot going to one province.

I am wondering if with the laws being passed in AZ and OK, the rise in Canadian dollar and a more open/encouraging type of immigration policy there will be a new problem with increased illegal populations in Canada.

As I noted to Katie, that article stated that lack of employment of legal immigrants was costing Cananda 2 billion a year in 2005.
post #15 of 24
RE Mexico's immigration policy: If they want to discourage immigration that's fine with me. It's their prerogative.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
RE Mexico's immigration policy: If they want to discourage immigration that's fine with me. It's their prerogative.
As long as the country holds back on its criticism of other countries' supposedly restrictive policies, which didn't seem to be the case under Fox.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
There are approximately 7 million legal resident aliens, out of a total population of 82.4 million. Twenty-five percent of the foreigners are from Turkey, 8% from Italy, 6% from Poland, 5% from Serbia or Montenegro, 4% from Greece, 3% from Croatia, and 3% from the Russian Federation. The number of illegal immigrants is estimated at up to 1.5 million, so about 1.8% of the total population, tendency rising because of the open borders with Eastern European countries.

The Turkish foreign minister was quite aware of the reasons behind the language requirement. Arranged marriages are still common among Turks and Kurds in eastern Turkey, and a large percentage of the guest workers who came to Germany over a 40-year period were from that area, and the practice has continued. The spouses are often quite young (hence the minimum age of 18 in the law), uneducated, have a great deal of difficulty integrating because they don't speak any German, and are sometimes mistreated/abused by the families they marry into. The language requirement is actually meant to protect these women, the idea being that the more integrated the women are, the less likely they'll be to put up with abuse.
I was reading an article about Greece and the Albanian immigrants who are being exploited after fleeing their homeland. The open border for EU nations was something I didn't quite understand the policies of. Simplified, it sounds as if EU member nations have some agreement for movement between countries that is less stringent and more like moveing between states here in the U.S. That might be a little too simplified of an interpretation.

I figured the Turkish prime minister was commenting for a specific reason. I agree that many of the immigration restrictions are actually for the protection of the immigrants themselves. It is very easy to take advantage of a person who cannot communicate with the rest of the society that they live within.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
The open border for EU nations was something I didn't quite understand the policies of. Simplified, it sounds as if EU member nations have some agreement for movement between countries that is less stringent and more like moveing between states here in the U.S. That might be a little too simplified of an interpretation.
That's the Schengen Agreement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement It has its pluses and minuses. Note: I'm a (native) U.S. citizen, married to a (native) German citizen, and we have lived in both the U.S. and Germany, legally, so what I post here may very well be colored by personal experiences,
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
what wrong with being fingerprinted ? some countries now require that to enter. Everyone who travels passports pic have to match a size.

it should be law, to check someone legal status to be in this country. if they are going to school or in trouble with the police, they are sucking up my tax dollars.
International students pay higher tuition rates than residents.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
hmm, Canada is in some ways much more liberal. I just saw a news story how many illegals are now passing though the US to get to canada.
with the vaule of there money up,and much more liberal imigration more and more the illegals are heading north of the US.
the short time i was in Vancouver they had a couple of cargo containers, loaded up with chinese(some of whom had died)

Illegals, or immigrants?

The quality of life is much higher in the U.S. than in other countries. (We use 5 times more energy than the world average!)

In another post, you wrote that people come here and don't want to be a part of society, or assimilate. They just want money. (What do you even mean by assimilation? You didn't say.)

Anyhow, I think it would be more correct to say they want a better quality of life... and who can blame them? I would do what I could do give my family a better life. In my opinion, illegal immigration is not a crime of the same caliber as rape or murder. The laws say it is illegal, but does this make it immoral? I think not. In the words of Thoreau, "It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right."

Now, you wrote in another post about criminals. As far as I'm concerned, the people whom you might label criminals simply for crossing a border are not, and I will not address that issue here.

However, the actions that some immigrants take in order to obtain work are both immoral and illegal. (Such as use of a false social security number.) However, current immigration policy does not address these issues, and it should. Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.

BTW, all criminals, whether or not they are illegal immigrants, are sucking up tax dollars. Personally, I think they should be put to work to earn their keep... but that's a post for another thread!
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
International students pay higher tuition rates than residents.
yea, so? last i looked high school students do not pay tuition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
The quality of life is much higher in the U.S. than in other countries. (We use 5 times more energy than the world average!)

In another post, you wrote that people come here and don't want to be a part of society, or assimilate. They just want money. (What do you even mean by assimilation? You didn't say.).
i dont care about the quality life in other countries. What i care about is the people in this country.

assimilate.http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assimilate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
Anyhow, I think it would be more correct to say they want a better quality of life... and who can blame them? I would do what I could do give my family a better life. In my opinion, illegal immigration is not a crime of the same caliber as rape or murder. The laws say it is illegal, but does this make it immoral? I think not. In the words of Thoreau, "It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.".
As said above, i dont care, I care about this country first.
a crime is a crime. so yes that makes it immoral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
Now, you wrote in another post about criminals. As far as I'm concerned, the people whom you might label criminals simply for crossing a border are not, and I will not address that issue here. .".
there is border for a reason, until said point in time where the earth is seen as just one country. Then its illegal..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
However, the actions that some immigrants take in order to obtain work are both immoral and illegal. (Such as use of a false social security number.) However, current immigration policy does not address these issues, and it should. Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.

BTW, all criminals, whether or not they are illegal immigrants, are sucking up tax dollars. Personally, I think they should be put to work to earn their keep... but that's a post for another thread!
US is already very liberal in its policy , when compared to other countries.
so it does not need to get addressed.

BTW, illegals suck up even more. Because they are not even supposed to be here.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
I know what assimilate means; I did not ask you for a definition. I wanted to know, specifically, what you believe immigrants must do in order to assimilate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
As said above, i dont care, I care about this country first.
Understood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
a crime is a crime. so yes that makes it immoral.
I like to deliberate on issues of morality; I don't accept something as unethical simply because it was handed to me as such. Laws were made by people, and people are not infallible.

"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -H.D. Thoreau

(In an attempt to be PC, I'll add my little disclaimer here that I am not calling anyone a fool and I hope that this quote will not be interpreted in that manner)
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
I know what assimilate means; I did not ask you for a definition. I wanted to know, specifically, what you believe immigrants must do in order to assimilate.



Understood.




I like to deliberate on issues of morality; I don't accept something as unethical simply because it was handed to me as such. Laws were made by people, and people are not infallible.

"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -H.D. Thoreau

(In an attempt to be PC, I'll add my little disclaimer here that I am not calling anyone a fool and I hope that this quote will not be interpreted in that manner)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Nova View Post
I like to deliberate on issues of morality; I don't accept something as unethical simply because it was handed to me as such. Laws were made by people, and people are not infallible.

"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." -H.D. Thoreau
The welfare of the people is the ultimate law.
Cicero

Law; an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has care of the community.
- Saint Thomas Aquinas

my quotes are older :P
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
The welfare of the people is the ultimate law.
Cicero

Law; an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has care of the community.
- Saint Thomas Aquinas

my quotes are older :P
So they are!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Proposed Immigration Policy