Mackerel or spotted tabby?

Hey guys!

I was wondering if you can help me. I'm trying to figure out whether my kitten Church should be called a mackerel tabby or a spotted tabby? When he was younger he was more striped, but now more of his stripes have broken up into spots... He's 4 months old now. Right now he has some spots and some stripes. I am wanting to register him in TICA to show him in HHP but I am not sure what to register him as! I'm not sure if the rest of his stripes might break up into spots making him a spotted tabby or if he will stay stripe-y and should be called a mackerel tabby? I'm also wondering if he is more likely to end up with more stripes breaking up into spots since he is growing so large? He already weighs almost 6.5 pounds.


Here's a "baby photo" when he was younger (and very fuzzy/fluffy!) and had more solid stripes:




And here are the newest photos I have of him, from a few weeks ago:

Brown Spotted Tabby and white

Still looks stripey to me Especially in the last pic where you see his other side.

While the stripes are broken up in certain areas, he's still considered a Mackerel Tabby.
You'll find that judges will go both ways on this, some saying Mackerel others claiming he has enough broken stripes to say he's spotted.

I would go with how he presented as a kitten. Stripes, therefore mackerel.

Why I say spots is simple...his shoulders are spotted.....

Originally Posted by Abymummy

Why I say spots is simple...his shoulders are spotted.....

Click to expand...

Please explain.

How it was explained to me...(CFA speak, the only judges I meet )

A mac would have obvious lines on shoulders...Church's is spotted...even if only on the right side (last pic). If there are spots on shoulders and the rest of the body appears to be broken lines, then the cat is spotted. If there are no spots on shoulders and the lines are broken rib to belly then its a mac!

That makes sense no?

Having said all that, it matters little for HHP. And actually for some color classes in some breeds as well since macs and spots are in the same color class!

cute as can be!

Ok guys - I'm gonna compare him to my Charlie who IS a spotted tabby. Church may have spots on his sides and shoulders (they are broken mackeral stripes). BUT he has stripes on the back legs.

I just looked at Charlie - his spotting is all over - including the back legs. He only has stripes on the bottom of the front legs, his broken necklaces and that is all - the rest is spotting.

Therefore, Church is a mackeral tabby. Many times mackerals do break up some stripes on the sides.

I will agree that some judges may call him a spotted tabby and some a broken mackeral. Since he's a HHP it doesn't really matter that much in registereing him in TICA; however I would put him in as a Brown Mackeral Tabby and White

One cannot compare Ocis and/or Bengals with other breeds. I've met many a "spotted" cat in Exotics, Persians where I can't even distinguish spots but judges have agreed that those cats are spotted! Ocis must have obvious spots. Anything less is a fault!

What we need is a good picture of BOTH sides standing up of Church. IMO one side looks more "spotted" then the other. Which in that case he would be a mackeral tabby (one side is broken into spots)

I've seen spotted tabby orientals who have spots on the legs instead of stripes

Sice GK, Nial and I are arguing which is of no help to you Nekochan, may I suggest you get yourself a copy of the TICA show standards (I think they have show standards for HHP...I know FIFe has standards) and work it out?

I'd definately say brown spotted tabby. You simply can't compare a cat from a breed (or a DSH/DLH) where you don't aim for good spots (color breed) with spotted breeds such as the Ocicat (just one example). Getting good colors and patterns takes a lot of work and you can't expect superb colors or patterns in cats you don't color breed.

I think Church looks somewhat like the cat with "mackerel tabby spots" on this site. Shown as a mackerel tabby but genetically spotted.

I think it comes down to as to what you think is more acceptable: a mackerel tabby with many broken lines or a spotted tabby without perfect spots.

For a definitive answer could you please give us standing/stretching pics, both sides and also a belly shot?

I'll try to get some more photos of him. It's hard to get standing side photos because as soon as he hears the camera's noises he turns towards it! I can probably get some stretched photos if I hold him up and stretch him out, I'll just have to ask someone else to take the photo since I'll be occupied holding him.

I am also wondering if the stripes may break up more as he gets older since he's only 4 months and the stripes have broken up since he was a baby.

That could be possible, but I doubt it. We just need to try and figure out which one he is before you register him. I was thinking that maybe you should just show him in a TICA show and ask the judges what he is for registration purposes. Then again you may wind up with a 50/50 split on what he is - then go by what you want.

It doesn't matter as much since he's not a purebred and breeding cat - but it would be helpful to know which he is

And don't forget to have someone hold him and take a good shot of the belly. Aby and I think we've figured it out based on the spotting on his belly

I'm on the fence now. Originally I was completely on the mackerel side, but some interesting points have been brought up, so I'm undecided.

The belly shot will confirm things for me.

Ok, I took some photos. You're in luck on the belly because when I took the pics off my camera, there were also a few I took recently of Church lying on his back.
Hopefully I remember to resize all of these...

Oddly enough in some of these photos he looks more striped, I think when I stretched him some of the spots got squished together so they look like stripes. I re-posted the photo I already posted so you can see what I mean, when you compare this first one to the stretched one of the same side, the stretched one looks more stripey.



Stretched pics:





Side pics:





Belly pic:




Older belly pic (from about 6 weeks ago):

Ok stretched out he definately (IMO) is a broken mackeral tabby rather then a spotted one.

Lets see if we all agree that he's a mackeral.

I only know much about Orientals, and the differentiation between mackerel and spotted patterns in OSH can be a little confusing as there can be a bit of an overlap due to factors that I've mentioned before - but the deciding factor as to which class the unclear ones are (obviously not for showing if the pattern is not great, but they still need to be registered!) depends upon the markings along the spine - if they are unbroken, it is a mackerel; if the dorsal stripes break up, it is a spotted. There's only one photo I can see of Church's back, and he's tiny in it, even harder to tell with kittens - but the dorsal striping looks solid to me, which in OSH terms would make him a mackerel - also the spots are arranged in lines, a broken mackerel pattern is still a mackerel in my book.

I don't know whether that bears any correlation to other breeds or is even relevant, but I just thought I'd throw it into the ring